Alchemy Forum 0251-0300

From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 251-300.
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Wed Feb 14 16:48:55 1996
Subject: 0251 Locating the prima materia (4) -Reply

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:35:52 -0500
From: Gilbert Arnold


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:22:32 -0500
From: Rawn Clark


In a message dated 96-02-13 19:56:37 EST, you write:

>From: Gilbert Arnold
>
>The Alchemical Master Rubea Viridis recommended
>'ductae lanieris' as a means to stabilise the 'higher energy >plateau at the
top of a slippery slope which has the properties >attributed to the
Philosoper's stone' .
>
>

Would you be so kind as to translate "ductae lanieris" for us poorly
educated folk? My little Langenscheidt Latin dictionary was of no help at
all...

Many thanks!
:) Rawn Clark
13 Feb 96


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Alas, it was an attempt at humor, of which there has been very little lately,

I apologise for the inconvenience,

The Alchemical Master Rubea Viridis (Red Green) recommended >'ductae
lanieris' (duct tape) as a means to stabilise the 'higher energy >plateau at
the top of a slippery slope which has the properties >attributed to the
Philosoper's stone' .

The Red Green show is what I watch when I need cheering up when I do
not understand all these references to advanced work on the Philosopher's
Stone.

Again, please forgive my ignorance,


Wed Feb 14 19:09:26 1996
Subject: 0252 alchemy and christianity

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:44:07 -0600
From: George Randall Leake III


>Tom http://www.nucleus.com/watchman
> It wasn't Henry who 'outlawed'.. alchemy was it? The dates you give don't
>'jibe'.. with Henry so I guess it wasn't him?

***nope...totally wrong century...and besides it was the crown itself that
employed alchemists to a small extent to try to make gold...if I'm not
mistaken I think it was around the reign of Edward II that Parliament
outlawed the manufacturing of gold through alchemy as they thought the
crown would actually do this, and thus, become independent of the
Parliamentary purse.

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu

"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a
child."
-Cicero
"Oh age! oh letters! It is a joy to be alive!...Woe to you, barbarians!"
-Ulrich von Hutten, 1518, Poet Laureate of the German Empire


Wed Feb 14 19:10:39 1996
Subject: 0253 alchemy and christianity

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:34:11 -0600
From: George Randall Leake III


>[Jason_Johns.rxuk@eur.xerox.com] writes [edited for brevity]-->
>The methods used by the old alchemists were not exactly
>scientific which alienated the new scientists who did not believe anything
>unless it was scientifically proven - something that is still alive and
> well today.
>Many of the modern scientists disregarding the pursuit of the philosophers
>stone or turning base metal in to gold as the research of fools. I think the
>research requires a very spiritual approach, something which has been
>discarded over the last few centuries with the approach of science.

***Yes you are mostly right; though I'm not sure the methods of traditional
alchemy *alienates* those who approach science with a classical empirical
mindset, but that's being picky.

*not only is there a split between alchemy and empiricism, but it goes
further than this: while taking the latter approach certainly one can focus
and learn on the material level, but it is a myopic point of view rather
taken for granted. This blinds most scientists, dare I suggest even some on
this forum? But leave that aside and let me make my main point that not
only is there a split but empiricists have no understanding (some would
assert no true *knowledge* as this only comes with the transformative
experience) of the nature of alchemy.


Wed Feb 14 19:11:52 1996
Subject: 0254 Alchemy and the Bible

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:11:43 -0600
From: George Randall Leake III


>RawnClark rawnclark@aol.com writes[edited for brevity]-->
>I very strongly urge anyone truely interested in the Alchemical parts of the
>"Bible", to look to the original text, in the original language it was
>written in. This means the Hebrew Torah and the Greek/Coptic New Testament.
> The King James translation of the "Old Testament" (Torah) is especially
>misleading. It's translation of the New Testament is equally poor,
>representing more a political statement of its times than an accurate
>translation.

***Rawn brings up many a valid point here. I've always wondered about
translation of the various books in the bible (and, thus, their
interpretation) ever since a Greek Orthodox priest told me that a key
passage in the Gospels on salvation cannot be exactly translated into most
Western languages particularly English. One wonders about how well our
alchemical texts are translated. Should we not be continually evaluating
our core works?

***also, don't forget about books in the Bible considered apocyrpha by some
sects and not by others. Entire sects apparently have based their creed on
some of these (such as the Gospel of Thomas being a key for Gnostic
Christians).


Wed Feb 14 21:02:28 1996
Subject: 0255 Alchemy forum posts

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 06:48:39 -0600
From: Logodox


Fellow Artificiers of Light & Nous:

What has happened to this most excellent of forums ?

2 or 3 posts a day ? Where'd everyone go ?

Methinks it was much better before, even with the bickering; it now seems

to have dwindled too much. Oh well, all good things seem to change...

nous ----> logodox@sound.net



Thu Feb 15 09:54:32 1996
Subject: 0256 Introduction and query

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:29:27 -0500
From: Bill Bunn

Hello everyone.

I am new to the group and the alchemical world. I am just beginning a
research project and I am submersing myself in the lit. and lore. It's
remarkable material.

I'm just working through the philosophers stone stuff. I'm having trouble
tracking down its origins. It doesn't seem to be a part of older
alchemical texts. Does anyone know when and where it arose?

Bill Bunn


Thu Feb 15 09:55:55 1996
Subject: 0257 FRENCH Basile Valentin 1826

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:01:52 -0500
From: Michel Martineau


SUITE:
J'ai été plusieurs fois bani d'institutions religieuses pour mes propos décadents sur les outils que sont le sexe et ce qui s'y rattache. Je fus un des plus grands obsédés sexuels du temps, bien que je n'ai forniqué qu'avec moi-même.
Je fus par ma bonté, avec le temps reconnu par une institution de moines libérés et on me laissa porté l'habit et le titre de frère, et me livrer à mes expériences personnelles.
Je leurs ai tous survécu, ils se sont aperçus, hélas! trop tard, qu'ils auraient pu comme moi vivre éternellement, car on ne m'a jamais vu agé.
J'ai été entouré de gens que j'ai beaucoup aimées et j'ai souffert de ne pas vivre parmis plus de gens autour de moi, avec qui partager mes découvertes.
J'ai dû seul, m'encourager, continuer, et je suis conscient qu'une force m'aidait à continuer, car seul avec mes idées contre tout les systèmes archaiques et religieux, je n'aurais pas résisté.
Le pervers que je suis, vit maintenant éternellement et libre, toujours en continuant cette enseignement de la transmutation sexuelle, avec la foi absolu et aveugle que la mort n'existe pas et je montre aujourd'hui à tous ces bourgeois dissolus,

A SUIVRE...


Thu Feb 15 09:56:49 1996
Subject: 0258 Locating the prima materia (4) -Reply

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 03:34:21 -0500
From: RawnClark


Dear Gilbert,

Please forgive MY lack of humor!!!
;-) ;-) ;-)

Did Red Green happen to say what color of duct tape?
Something garishly flourescent perhaps?

Many Thanks!
:-) Rawn Clark
14 Feb 96


Thu Feb 15 10:09:27 1996
Subject: 0259 Fulcanelli

From Pavel Korensky via Adam McLean

I have one question. In the Fulcanelli's book "Le mystere des Cathedrales", is a
mention about one work of Grasset d'Orcet. I don't know the exact page number,
because I have only the Czech translation of this book. The mention is in the
chapter where the Cross from Hendaye is described.

In the paragraph, Fulcanelli is writing about the "Language of Gods" or
"Language of Birds". He also mentioned, that a lot of informations about this
"Language" can be found in the work of Grasset d'Orcet - analyse of the
"Pholyphil's Dream", which was published in "British revue".

I never heard about Grasset d'Orcet and I don't know what exactly is (or was)
the "British revue". So I would like to ask you, if you heard about the Grasset
d'Orcet or about his article in the British revue ?

Is it possible to find out the Grasset d'Orcet article somehow ? I read about
the "Language of Birds" is several other works and I would like to have as much
materials about this language as possible.


Thu Feb 15 12:10:29 1996
Subject: 0260 Alchemy and Christianity

From: STUART INMAN
Date: 15 Feb 96 10:30:35 GMT


I was thinking about the architecture angle and one or two things
occurred to me.

The first was a note of caution, we should not be too eager to
attribute alchemical signifigance to architectural decoration, many
of the symbols are, after all, ones that were in the public domain.
The pelican for instance, while being an alchemical symbol possessed
of both practical and theoretical signifigance, is also a symbol of
Christ that I gather is quite common in exoteric christianity, if I
can use that phrase.

On the other hand I remember visiting Christchurch about a year ago
and the first thing I noticed was a pelican on the ceiling. The whole
decoration of the place is very odd indeed and the figures carved
into the choir stalls and the miserichords are of a frankly bizarre
nature that, if it is not alchemical, is at any rate not entirely
usual in my experience. The more common figures, green men,
tricephali, are accompanied by others hat I find hard to describe.
Has anyone looked at these in the light of alchemy? I would be
interested in an informed opinion.

Stuart Inman

s.inman@greenwich.ac.uk


Sat Feb 17 11:37:29 1996
Subject: 0261 Fulcanelli

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:41:52 -0500
From: jerry


Alchemy forum wrote:
>
> >From Pavel Korensky via Adam McLean
>
> I have one question. In the Fulcanelli's book "Le mystere des Cathedrales", is a
> mention about one work of Grasset d'Orcet. I don't know the exact page number,
> because I have only the Czech translation of this book. The mention is in the
> chapter where the Cross from Hendaye is described.

It's page 168, first paragraph in the English translation by Mary Sworder,
1977 reprint, or page 215, third line from the top, in the French Edition
Pauvert, 1979.

Since I have been chasing this article from the British Revue for almost one
year now, without any success, I would be very happy if someone on the forum
could provide us with some pointers, as to where we could obtain a copy of
of this article. Is there some index to the British Revue? We do not even know
the year of the publication. It must have been before 1929, when the Le Mystere
appeared for the first time.

jerry@gold.interlog.com


Sat Feb 17 11:37:35 1996
Subject: 0262 FRENCH Basile Valentin 1826

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 23:44:29 -0500
From: Michel Martineau


SUITE:..bourgeois dissolus, le vain de leurs croyances et tout les malheurs de tout ces pauvres bourgues qui les suivent.
Le processus de départ enseigné par mon maître sur la christalisation du sel cosmique avec l'idée que l'appareil existait dans le soi profond éthérique, soit le plomb en or, m'a conduit à croire à mon maître et à ses belles paroles.
J'ai grande foi et j'affirme que tout disciples de la voie sèche a un maître à lui, ou qu'il marche dans son sillage.
J'écris pour le future, mon maître est physique, les maîtres des temps nouveaux se font connaître par les écrits, puisque tel soit bien reporté, tout ce que j'ai appris fût important à cause du grand amour que je portais à mon maître.
Il m'a tout montré et sa bienvaillance m'a conduit jusqu'ici.
Tout disciple qui a un maître, n'a pas l'esclavage, mais l'exemple.
Toute transmutation sexuelle prolongée mène à la libération du moi, à l'élimination des égos et non de la conscience, au développement du feu interne éthérique, qui lui, brûle et réveille la couleuvre sacrée, qui n'ayant pas le choix monte toujo

A SUIVRE...


Sat Feb 17 11:37:35 1996
Subject: 0263 St. John's Wort

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:12:43 -0500 (EST)
From: OISPEGGY

Scarfed from the sci.med.aids list:

>On page 18 of the January issue of Prevention magazine, there's an
>article about the herb St. John's Wort.

>At New York University's Medical Center, researchers have noted that
>hypericin -- a component of St. John's Wort -- when put in a test tube
>with the HIV-infected blood, "renders the blood free of any active
>virus."

>It also "knocks out" hepatitis C and, when given right after injection
>with certain strains of leukemia, completely blocks the disease.

>Daniel Meruelo, Ph.D., Professor of Pathology at NYU, was referred to
>in the article. (No phone number was given.)

I started growing this herb because an occultist told me it helps
with lucid dreaming. (Can anyone comment on this?) I sometimes
drink it in tea using 1-2 leaves. My herbal lists a few side-effects
having to do with blood clotting, but you have to take a lot for
a bad effect. Once I let the leaves sit in a teacup overnight then
drank it the next day and became very ill. I'm not entirely sure
the tea caused the problem, but do not plan to do that again.

Anyone else use St. John's Wort? What results have you had?

Regards,

- Peggy -



Sat Feb 17 11:37:35 1996
Subject: 0264 Alchemy and Christianity

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 16:37:20 PST
From: A.J.Le Sage


What does the Pelican do?
It feeds it's offsping with it's own blood. Do you
not think that this may be telling us something
of practical use. Blood is used to feed in order for growth
to take place, pracrical Alchemy is based on
growth not reduction but nothing is forced this is
way anyone who uses ovens or flames is doomed
to fail.
Do you think that your own blood is of no practical use.#

The significance of Architecture cannot be
undestimated but it must be the right Architechture,
it is a form of Cabbala, it is there for all to see but
few to understand. It is concealed by it's openess.
How many are the great philosophers that state
that the truth is right under your nose?

---------------Original Message---------------

From: STUART INMAN
Date: 15 Feb 96 10:30:35 GMT


I was thinking about the architecture angle and one or two things
occurred to me.

The first was a note of caution, we should not be too eager to
attribute alchemical signifigance to architectural decoration, many
of the symbols are, after all, ones that were in the public domain.
The pelican for instance, while being an alchemical symbol possessed
of both practical and theoretical signifigance, is also a symbol of
Christ that I gather is quite common in exoteric christianity, if I
can use that phrase.

On the other hand I remember visiting Christchurch about a year ago
and the first thing I noticed was a pelican on the ceiling. The whole
decoration of the place is very odd indeed and the figures carved
into the choir stalls and the miserichords are of a frankly bizarre
nature that, if it is not alchemical, is at any rate not entirely
usual in my experience. The more common figures, green men,
tricephali, are accompanied by others hat I find hard to describe.
Has anyone looked at these in the light of alchemy? I would be
interested in an informed opinion.

Stuart Inman

s.inman@greenwich.ac.uk


Sat Feb 17 11:37:35 1996
Subject: 0265 Plant Alchemy

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 16:53:15 PST
From: A.J.Le Sage


Does any have any information on
Archibald Cochran and his famous
Alchemical Tree?

A.J. Le Sage

lesage@mail.eclipse.co.uk


Sat Feb 17 11:37:39 1996
Subject: 0267 Matthias Grunewald's Isenheim Altarpiece and Alchemy

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 14:39:40 -0600
From: m-mchenry

I am researching the German artist Mathis Gothardt-Neithardt, a.k.a.
Matthias Grunewald (1475(?)-1528), and his Isenheim Altarpiece which was
prepared for the Antonite monastery in Colmar, France sometime between
1513-18. I read works by Otto Benesch, Georg Scheja, Andree Hayum, Ruth
Mellinkoff, Nikolaus Pevsner/Michael Meier, Arthur Burkhard, and J.K.
Hysmans/E. Ruhmer regarding the artist and his work. All provide art
historical overviews with limited references to alchemy.
My studies of Jung made me curious as to whether or not Grunewald,
often described as a Christian mystic, was more involved with alchemy than
what I've read leads one to believe. But first, I must be assured that Jung
had some proof that the medieval alchemists were conscious of the
psychological transformations that mirrored their material work with
elements. Can anyone explain Jung's reasoning on this?
With regard to Grunewald's Isenheim Altarpiece and alchemy,I notice
that the small Madonna wearing the diadem in the "Annunciation" panel of
the work bears resemblance to the "Sapienta Austri" or Queen of South, as
referred to in the Aurora consurgens--from what I read in Jung's Psychology
and Alchemy. Also, the olive/gold tone of Grunewald's Christ, depicted as
a likely victim of the disease St. Anthony's Fire, made me think of Jung's
dream of the green-gold Christ as mentioned in Memories,
Dreams,Reflections. Jung's understanding was that his Crucifix represented
the "viriditas" or living quality in humans, organic and inorganic nature
in alchemy...the life spirit or "anima mundi". Also, if I'm not mistaken,
the green and gold may be attributed to Mercurius/Mercury. Perhaps the
Lapis-Christ parallel would apply to Grunewald's work as well. Any
comments?
In Andree Hayum's book, The Isenheim Altarpiece: God's Medicine and
the Painter's Vision, it is stated that the earthenware pot, tub, and
musical instruments in the Madonna and Child and Incarnation Tabernacle are
"...allegorical instruments celebrating the domain of alchemy." Not much
more is mentioned directly in any of the aforementioned texts. I know of
one German text, Matthias Grunewald Mensch und Weltbild, which supposedly
delves into occult and alchemical references in Grunewald's life and art.
I am trying to locate a copy, and would require translation. Has anyone
read anything about Grunewald and alchemy? Some say his imagery was
directly influenced by St. Bridget of Sweden's Revelations. Also, it is
believed that Grunewald may have been directly exposed to Hieronymus Bosch
given their similarities in demon imagery(I have read your forum on Bosch
and alchemy. In an Art Journal article, L. S. Dixon mentioned Madeleine
Bergman's "Hieronymus Bosch and Alchemy:A Study on the St. Anthony
Triptych". I am told that Bergman's piece analyzes how alchemical processes
were thought to be analogous to the Christian mysteries.)
Grunewald was a contemporary of Albrecht Durer who had known ties to
H.C. Agrippa von Nettesheim's writings. Any input on Grunewald and
plausible links to alchemy in his Isenheim Altarpiece would be appreciated.
Thank you. Sincerely, m-mchenry@nwu.edu

--
Melissa Ann McHenry
Northwestern University
m-mchenry@nwu.edu


Sat Feb 17 11:37:45 1996
Subject: 0266 FRENCH Basile Valentin 1826

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 23:23:28 -0500
From: Michel Martineau

SUITE:...pour sa plus grande gloire.
L'être qui retombe à ........... même fugace, referme les portes que les feus avaient maintenu ouvert et qui servent de combustible à l'éthérique.
Cet être souffre autant que la mort elle-même, car il est privé pour un certain temps de tous les pouvoirs acquis à ce jour et sa plus grande punition est cette privation. Car avec tout ce qu'il a connu et vécu, il doit vivre comme le commun de

IGNIS NATURA

En ces temps de travail sur moi-même, il m'a été donné de vérifier les dires qui suivent:
Ignis natura résume tout, la composition de l'être, sa négation, son comportement, sa vie, son feu et son résultat. Aussi est-il important de mentionner que dès son plus jeune âge, l'être humain possède déjà tout l'attirail nécessaire à
Il lui est donc recommander de préserver le plus possible sa combustion énergétique solaire.

A SUIVRE...


Sun Feb 18 13:59:59 1996
Subject: 0268 Locating the prima materia

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 19:53:31 -0700
From: Patrick J. Smith


In his enumeration of the nomina of the prima materia, Maury
writes:

> ...Cosmic chaos is said to be unloosened by igniting the alchemical
> process. A bottomless chasm is felt to open up, variously exposing
> filth, dung, feces, secretions, excrement, urine, milk, and/or
> menstrual blood...
>
> ...It was also called the vilest, cheapest and most
> despised thing, which is to be found everywhere. It is the thing
> which is rejected as worthless, or even pernicious. For instance, the
> *Tractatus aureus* describes the stone as ``cast forth upon a
> dunghill, being most dear, is made of the vilest of the vile''.....
>
> More metaphorical were names such as *nigredo*, ``blackness,''
> *tenebrae*, ``darkness,'' ``black mountain,'' or simply
> ``mountains.'' Because of the blackness and weight of its original
> condition, it was called *plumbum*, ``lead''...
>
> ...Because of its blackness, it was called *carbo*, coal, pitch,
> ashes...

Along the same vein, Pernety gives the following list of alchemical
terms relating to the black phase of the Work:

...The Blackness is the true sign of a perfect solution... The
Philosophers have given to this Dissolution the names, *Death,
Destruction* and *Perdition*, the *Infernal Regions, Tartarus,
Shadows, Night, Obscure Vest, Sepulchre, Tomb, Venimous Water,
Charcoal, Manure, Black Earth, Black Veil, Sulphurous Earth,
Melancholy, Black Magnesia, Clay, Stinking Menstruum, Smoke,
Lamp-Black, Venimous Fire, Cloud, Lead, Black Lead, Philosopher's
Lead, Saturn, Black Powder, Contemptible Thing, Vile Thing, Seal of
Hermes, Stinking Spirit, Sublimated Spirit, Eclipsed Sun* or
*Eclipse of the Sun and Moon, Corruption, Black Bark, Sea-foam,
Covering of the Vase, Capital of the Alembic, Naptha, Uncleanliness of
the Dead, Corpse, Oil of Saturn, Nigrum-Nigro-Nigrius.*

To these names can be added ``crow'' or ``crow's head'', ``raven'',
etc. The following is an attempt at explaining the origin of this class
of symbols.

Since Aristotle, it was thought that there is a plastic substance, or
principle, which is capable of accepting form. This primordial
substance was the chaos whicbr>
My point is this: Melissa is su universe. It was the prima materia of the alchemists. But to the
Greek philosopher's, this principle of matter was not considered as
being valuable anymore than the bricks that constituted a house could
be valued above the house itself. In fact, it was the collection of
ideal forms, or universal ideas upon which all forms were based, which
was considered as perfection. Hence, the formless, chaotic state of
the first matter was the state farthest removed from perfection.

Just as the alchemists believed that the physical universe could be
created by impressing form onto the first matter, so too they thought
that ordinary matter could be reduced back to its first, chaotic
state. Now, according to Genesis, in the beginning, ``darkness was
upon the face of the deep.'' Light was introduced into the universe
later, after creation had begun. Thus the primordial chaos, or prima
materia, was considered to be absolutely black, blacker than black
itself (Nigrum-Nigro-Nigrius). And thus also, upon removing the
form from the subject and reducing it to its first state, the
matter should become absolutely black. According to Philalethes,
``...it is no ordinary blackness that is seen here, but is of so
tremendous a depth that by the very fact of being black it appears
shining and resplendent.'' This is the dark abyss, like that which
existed before creation.

The blackness was also considered to be equivalent to death, or
eternal death. It thus became the ``sepulchre'', or ``tomb'', of the
matter, and was therefore referred to as Lead or Saturn. ``This is
the death of the compound,'' writes Philalethes in his `Open
Entrance'. ``...the winds have ceased, and there is a great calm.
This is that great simultaneous eclipse of the Sun and Moon, when the
Sea also has disappeared. Our Chaos is then ready, from which, at the
bidding of God, all the wonders of the world may successively
emerge.''

"Alchemy", wrote Albertus Magnus in his `Book of Minerals',
"proceeds in this way, that is, destroying one substance by removing
its specific form, and ...producing the specific form of another." As
an example of this principle, the ancient philosophers observed that,
in any generation, the *form* of the seed is destroyed,
subsequently giving rise to a new, living form. The alchemists often
quoted the Gospel of St. John wherein it is written: ``I say unto you,
unless the grain of wheat falleth into the ground and die, it abideth
alone. But if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.'' (John 12:24-25)
And similarly: ``Senseless man, that which thou sowest is not
quickened unless it die first...'' (1 Corinthians 15:36) Another
example of the principle of transformation was the apparent generation
of flies from decomposing corpses. As the decomposing corpse lost its
`form', new forms began to emerge. Flies also seemed to emerge from
dung heaps, and dung improved the fertility of the fields. And in
ancient times, the menstrual period was thought of as a kind of
putrefaction, which was necessary for the generation of a new child.
Rulandus, for instance, defines ``Mensis Philosophicus---The
Philosophical Period of Digestion... It is the time of putrefaction,
the period which follows, or imitates, the movements of the Moon...''
In fact, wherever there was putrefaction, new life seemed to arise.
This observation also led to the ancient fertility rites, in which
sacrifices were made to ensure the growth of the following years'
crops and herds. And all of this was not inconsistent with the view
of Greek philosophy, in which the transformation of substances
substantiated the principle of the underlying unity of all matter.

The alchemical process mirrored this principle of death and
regeneration. Thus, in the first stage of the Work, a substance was
deprived of its form and reduced to its prima materia. This stage was
referred to as `death', `mortification' or `putrefaction', and
analogies were continually made to all sorts of vile things associated
with decay. But ultimately, out of the coal blackness of death, light
did appear. This was analogous to the first light of creation. It
was the ``light out of darkness''. It was also analogous to the
resurrection: It was the ``life after death''. It was the point of
the sunrise following the long dark night. It was the first Stone of
the alchemists.

In Alexander von Suchten's `Explanation of the Natural Philosopher's
Tincture, of Theophrastus Paracelsus', we find the following parables:

The ancient Sages have also mentioned the same in parables, as when
they saw a mist rise in the distance (possibly the mist that watered
the whole earth). They also saw the violence of the sea and of the
water-floods upon the face of the earth, that the same stank in the
darkness (putrefaction). They also beheld the King of the earth sink,
and heard him cry with a terrible voice: He who delivers me shall live
forever, and rule in my glory on my royal throne, and all things shall
be given into his power (i.e., blackness). On the following day
they beheld above the King a most beautiful morning star, and the
light of day illumining the darkness (i.e., whiteness), the
bright sun rising through the brilliant clouds of various forms and
colours (i.e., yellowness and redness)....

They [the Philosophers] beheld a man, as black as a moor, stuck fast
in a black stagnant bog, to whose assistance came a young woman,
beautiful of countenance, and clad in bright apparel. Her back was
adorned with glorious white wings... From her proceeded the most
sweet scent, above all aromas...

Notice the contrast: The appearance of the light from out of the abyss
is personified in the form of a beautiful young woman, clothed in
radiant apparel, and enveloped by a very pleasant, sweet scent.

Finally, the Greek alchemist, Archelaos, writing about 715 \AD
exclaims:

When the spirit of darkness and of foul odour is rejected, so
that no stench and no shadow of darkness appear, then the body is
clothed with light and the soul and spirit rejoice because
darkness has fled from the body. And the soul, calling to the
body that has been filled with light, says: `Awaken from Hades!
Arise from the tomb and rouse thyself from darkness! For thou
hast clothed thyself with spirituality and divinity, since the
voice of the resurrection has sounded and the medicine of life
has entered into thee. For the spirit is again made glad in the
body, as is also the soul, and runs with joyous haste to embrace
it and does embrace it. Darkness no longer has dominion over the
body, since it is a subject of light and they will not suffer
separation again for eternity. And the soul rejoices in her
home, because after the body had been hidden in darkness, she
found it filled with light. And she united with it, since it had
become divine towards her, and it is now her home. For it had
put on the light of divinity and darkness had departed from it.
And the body and the soul and the spirit were all united in love
and had become one, in which unity the mystery had been
concealed. In their being united together the mystery has been
accomplished, its dwelling place sealed up and a monument erected
full of light and divinity.

Additions, corrections, or further discussion of these ideas is
welcome.

-Patrick
p-smith@advtech.slc.unisysgsg.com



Mon Feb 19 09:06:14 1996
Subject: 0269 Locating the prima materia

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 07:48 NZDT
From: Pat Zalewski


>Patrick that was a good post. It showed us that most of the writers used
either a lot of different bases for the Primea materia or they simply wrote
from a concept of theory and not practice. The problem is find out who did
what. My personal viewpoint is that the primea materia in its external form
can be almost anything that has a spirit trapped inside it. The concept of
spirit is the intangeable essence or divine spark. A number of years ago an
old alchemist told me of someone he worked with in England, and who used
earth and minerals taken from a ley line to assure their magnetic quality.
Now to a completely different subject.
Does anyone know what level Baubault's son has taken the Mutus Liber
experiment. Baubalt extracted mineral salts form the earth into what he
called the First Matter. His son carried on the experiment after his death
and for many years there has been nothing published in English as to what
level he has reached or if he has reached the second stage. Perhaps our
French alchemists may know of something published in French that covers what
I have asked. After a 25 year silence he must have made some headway?

Pat zalewski


Mon Feb 19 09:06:35 1996
Subject: 0270 Opus ad Rubeum

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 09:36:12 +1100
From: Petra Gottlieb


Is there anybody out there who can tell a "life story" concerning the Opus
ad Rebeum? I would love to hear it.
---
PETRA CHRISTIANE GOTTLIEB
petrag@iaccess.com.au

>>OHNE LIEBE KEINE KUNST!<< (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!


Mon Feb 19 14:35:34 1996
Subject: 0271 menstruum = solvent?

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 11:37:54 0800
From: Rob Brezsny


I recently came across a passage, in the dictionary of all places, which says
that the word "menstruum" was originally a Middle English word
derived from the Medieval Latin word "menstruum," which meant
"solvent," and that "alchemists regarded the gold-transmuting
solvent as similar to menstrual blood, which they believed
transformed sperm in the womb into an embryo."

Can anyone provide references from medieval and Renaissance
texts wherein the solvent is referred to as "menstruum"?



Tue Feb 20 11:50:54 1996
Subject: 0272 Italian wants information on alchemical groups

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 07:28:28 +0100
From: Rodolfo Neri


hi to all!

It is seconds time that I write.
My name is Rodolfo Neri,I live in Torino,Italy and I/am impassioned of
Alchimia, I am 44 years old and I am medical radiologist.
I study the books of Fulcanelli and of Canseliet from beyond one year and,
unfortunately, I in Turin don't have still known nobody with which discuss
of this matter in the city' in which alive.
For me stayed has been a true fortune find the site in Internet of Adam
Mclean in which you are spoken about this matter and wants to thank for the
abundance of material, rare and precious, that I there have found.
I want to know any belongingses:
In fully grown America of the groups of study?, are you to discuss, to study
the Alchimia together?, do they exist from laboratories in which they could
be of the teachers done arrange to teach the basic d bases for power at
least begin to work without risks?.
Are you to acquaintance of similar groups in Italy that works with seriousness?
And you particularly are in contact with people from Turin?
If you could please send me the e-mail of anybody of these people or groups
with which I could have a gratifying exchange of ideas.
I thank you and I want to do my compliments for the excellent quality of the
material rare that have been able to still retrieve, thank you .
I wait for a your letter.




Neri Rodolfo


Wed Feb 21 09:04:55 1996
Subject: 0273 Review- hermetica a bibliography

From: Jon Marshall
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 10:09:04 -0800


Ambrose, Elizabeth anne, *The Hermetica: An Annotated Bibliography* (Sixteenth
Century Bibliography No. 30), St Louis Centre for Reformation research, 6477 San
Bonita Ave, St Louis, Missouri 63105, 1992. US$9.50 (more through a bookshop)

This is a slim (42 page booklet) so price is a consideration in what is a useful
work.
Contrary to my expectations the booklet is not an account of the complex
bibliographic problems of 16th century editions of, or references to, the
hermetica, it is a list of modern (19th century plus) articles and books on the
hermetica with one or two paragraph summaries of their contents and refences to
other articles of interest.

Ambrose ranges wide in her contents, including for instance works such as
Atwood's suggestive enquirey (here listed as hermetic philosophy and alchemy)
and more importantly giving some idea of the contents of important books in
French and German- which are often ignored by english language scholars- though
sadly quotations from these books remain untranslated.

While some obvious works have apparantly been left out (Fowden's Egyptian hermes
for one, Copenhaver is contemporary with the booklet and thus not unexpectedly
missing) she includes references to many english language articles i was not
familiar with, and she makes no attempt at completeness anyway- merely refering
to "list the major sources of Hermetica scholarship and ouline.. the
significance of each entry to particular scholarly interests"

Naturally her paragraph summaries give some idea of the main areas of debate-
the question of 'light', the role of egyptian thought and alchemy, the role
and function of hermes, and the relative influences of christianity, gnosticism
and the hermetica on each other.

There is a short introduction on the textual and translation problems in the
hermetica- which does not include anything new, but *is* a useful summary.

All in all, this has sent me to the library and the bookshop and i feel that
such a work has succeeded admirably when it has done this.

If you feel that the cost is too much for your own personal copy try to get your
library to order one if it hasn't already and you will probably find a pointer
to something new.

jon


Wed Feb 21 09:06:14 1996
Subject: 0274 Locating the prima materia

Date: 20 Feb 96 18:29:59 EST
From: Beat Krummenacher

The discussion on the prima materia is central in alchemy. Reading the current
messages to this theme it has struck me, that obscurity exists about the
different application of this household name. Up to now the philosophical
meanings of the prima materia were discussed in the main. I would like to
emphasize, that the term is used also for completely concrete and practical
substances.

There is hardly a theme in alchemy, which was so concealed like prima materia.
Thus it does not astonish, that so much confusion rules around the meaning of
this household name.

In the practical alchemy of the large work two working steps fundamentally have
to be distinguished: The preparatory work and the rework. The preparatory work
serves to it, to manufacture the basic materials for the rework out of the right
materials coming from nature. The rework exists in the boiling of the purified
materials of the preparatory work, joined in the right proportion. While in the
preparatory work the common fire serves as source of heat, in the rework the
secret fire of the alchemists works. This secret fire of the alchemists is both
the outer central fire of the world, as well as the inner central fire in the
matter, roused through the outer fire of nature and bound to the purified raw
material made fit for the work. Both fires of the nature activate the powers in
the matter of the stone and bring it to maturity. Also in the rework it must be
warmed with the ordinary fire, whereby it is to be paid attention on the right
degrees of the fire according to the stages of the great work.

The term prima materia is used for materials both of the preparatory work as
well as of the rework. Because the most do not know either the both fundamental
levels of the work or do not know to distinguish them, they confuse the
materials marked with prima materia. It is understandable, that then one soon
comes to the conclusion, that prima materia only is an abstract household name.
It is complicating, that still the term is also used for the concealed energy,
which is the mainspring of the whole work.

The term prima materia is bound up with the household name Mercurius
philosophorum. So Mercurius once is called the remote matter, then again the
close matter and ultimately the next matter. For elucidation of the whole I give
following list:

1. Prima materia universalis: or Mercurius universalis, Materia remota (remote
matter), Materia tertia.

It is the general vigor in its subtle energetic ethereal vehicle, the spiritus
mundi, the astral salt, the prana or od.

2. Mercurius crudus, prima Materia cruda, Materia propinqua or Materia secunda.

It is the general vigor with its subtle energetic vehicle, concentratively
loaded to a raw material base especially corresponding to its nature, the
Subiectum artis or the salt of the metals. The Mercurius crudus is the source
material for the preparation of:

3. Mercurius philosophorum, prima Materia metallorum, Materia proxima (next
matter) or generally Materia prima.

We receive the prima materia universalis as a present of nature. The prima
materia cruda however is the result of our own efforts. It is purified in the
preparatory work and made capable to release the philosopher s mercury. The most
difficult is the knowledge of the method, how the third matter is prepared from
the second (2.). Note: The term third matter also is often used for the remote
matter, which causes additional confusion.

An old master of the art informatively writes on the second and third matter
(Non plus ultra Veritatis): The knowledge of the second matter is the door,
which opens a free entrance to the locked palace of the king. After that the
knowledge of our fire, which is called the next matter of the stone, is a so
concealed mystery, that it is only found alone through the secret art of the
practice. The latter is however heavy to attain. Yes it is a miracle of the art.
For who understands the work, comprehends the whole science. And who does not
understand the same, loses time, trouble and costs in treatment of the matter,
because the philosophical operation in the preparation can only be learned
through a great gift of God, by means of lengthy industry, or through the
instruction of an experienced master. Thus it comes, that many, who know the
matter, do not know to use it. By this second matter our water is extracted
alone, which is the next matter of the blest stone.

We see therefore: The practical work in the preparatory work rests on it, first
to prepare the second matter - which is found in the nature and is loaded with
the first matter (see above 1.) - in a way, that from it the basis is received
for the rework. The philosophical wine is gained then from the prepared second
matter by the implied secret process. The wine is divided in different
components, which are the ingredients of the rework after seemly purification.
During the distillation of the philosophical wine a burning and very volatile
spirit escapes, often called the burning water. It owns a distinctive smell.
Furthermore one receives a yellow to red oil. Stays behind a black mass like
pitch.

After seemly processing of the purified principles from the philosophical wine
one receives two essential components: the sulfur of the philosophers as well as
the philosophical mercury or the third prima materia. The latter has an
especially aromatic and often sweetish smell. If one unites these both basic
materials with the gold seed and digests in the first degree of the fire, so the
whole mass changes and goes blacker as black: The first level of the rework is
reached...

Patrick J. Smith wrote:
> They [the Philosophers] beheld a man, as black as a moor, stuck fast in a
black stagnant bog, to whose assistance came a young woman, beautiful of
countenance, and clad in bright apparel. Her back was adorned with glorious
white wings. .. From her proceeded the most sweet scent, above all aromas. ..

Notice the contrast: The appearance of the light from out of the abyss is
personified in the form of a beautiful young woman, clothed in radiant apparel,
and enveloped by a very pleasant, sweet scent. <

This passage now is easy to understand, if one considers my above-mentioned
explanations. I probably must not more explain it.

The third prima materia or the philosophical mercury owns the ability to lead
back metals and minerals in their first matter, i.e. to dissolve them. The
household name of the first matter is thus also used to mark a metal or a
mineral, which was dissolved by means of the secret fire of the alchemists. So
for instance gold - being in the philosophical mercury - can be transformed into
a fluid (confer various messages to the potable gold).

Because the third prima materia is impregnated with the power of the first
mercury, the heavenly influences or the both fluids, it animates the common
metal gold delivered by nature and it forms alive gold or the gold tincture.
This alive gold is excessively loaded with energy. Often the alchemists say,
that their gold be more highly exalted than common gold. Properly processed a
philosopher's stone prepared with gold can transmute base metals into perfect
gold like yeast ferments dough to bread. The excessive load with the first
mercury forms more gold, than originally has entered in the tincture. The
(metallic) philosopher's stone owns an increasing power.

The blackness, often described in earlier messages to the forum as pure inner
conditions, as abyss, concretely appears at several places in the practical
work: In the preparatory work there are source materials, which become
pitch-black during the putrefaction. The processing of the second matter leads
to a remainder, which looks bubble-like black. Because this remainder equals a
warty toad, it often was symbolized by this animal. Furthermore a black oily
mass remains in the flask like pitch after working up the philosophical wine or
the philosopher's chaos. Final the first phase of the great work in the rework
to the philosopher's stone is a condition, in which the matter hermetically
sealed in the vessel looks likewise pitch-black.

We see therefore: Blackness and prima materia are terms, which were used for
many materials and various conditions of the work. The above-mentioned only
should serve as clue. If an alchemist learns to associate the right materials
and right levels of the work with the passages of alchemical writings, so all
current obscurity will escape. He will see with his own eyes, that the allegedly
philosophical and abstract descriptions of the alchemists are well-founded in a
practice, which actually exists. A practice, which only remains concealed to the
man, who may or can not understand.

Lapis


Wed Feb 21 09:12:27 1996
Subject: 0275 Italian wants information on alchemical groups

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 21:24:26 -0500
From: Russ House


>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 07:28:28 +0100
>From: Rodolfo Neri
>
>My name is Rodolfo Neri,I live in Torino,Italy and I/am impassioned of
>Alchimia, I am 44 years old and I am medical radiologist.
>In fully grown America of the groups of study?, are you to discuss, to study
>the Alchimia together?, do they exist from laboratories in which they could
>be of the teachers done arrange to teach the basic d bases for power at
>least begin to work without risks?.
>Are you to acquaintance of similar groups in Italy that works with seriousness?
>And you particularly are in contact with people from Turin?
>If you could please send me the e-mail of anybody of these people or groups
>with which I could have a gratifying exchange of ideas.



Hello Rudolfo,

I regret that I did not receive your first message. It is possible that I have lost it during 2 different problems with computers. The computer is a good way, but not perfect today.

Today, I have no contact with Alchemists in Italy. I will ask my contacts in France if there
are some members in Italy who can be of some assistance to you. For the present time, I will be happy to correspond with you, and to assist in any way that is possible.

In the U.S. today, the people who study alchemy are not together for study, but are often
alone in their Work. It is because we have a large country, with people who are always too busy, and there are not many people who find the time to make experiments in their
laboratory.

In France, when I have visited, I see that people work together more often.
In the area of Paris, I have been in 4 or 5 laboratories of alchemy. Here, people are more relaxed (and natural) than in the U.S. and friends often find time to work together. The country is smaller, and people will take a train or car to visit a friend and make experiments together. Also, people are more careful with money and will
work together to help in their experiments. This happens sometimes in the USA.

Because people in the USA want to learn about alchemy, I have made some meetings at my home, where there is a good laboratory. Because of problems of time, I have only
2 or 3 meetings in a year.
Also, my wife and I have made large seminars near Chicago with more than 100
people. This was one time each year (1992-1995). It is a *big* work. This year we will
have a seminar in Colorado.
Information is on the Internet: http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/
Look at the word "Seminars".

The seminars can give the basic information to work without risk in the plant kingdom, and with only some risk in metals. I think the courses of The Philosophers of Nature are very good. In the future we think we will have a video in VHS (US-format, not PAL) that gives some good beginning for the work.

The books which are good for beginning the work in English are:
The Alchemist's Handbook, by Frater Albertus - published by Samuel Weiser
The Practical Handbook of Plant Alchemy by Manfred Junius - published by Inner Traditions.

If you can not find these books in Italy, I can provide these. The postage
is of some expense, so it is better to find in Italy.

If you have been to Adam McLean's web site only, please look for the course materials at:
http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/

I wish good success for you. We can continue to correspond. In time I hope to know if there are some Alchemists in Italy for you to contact.

Regards,

Russ House
Vice-President,
The Philosophers of Nature, Inc.


====================================
Courses in Alchemy * Qabala * Esoteric Studies
The Philosophers of Nature on the web:
http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/
email: alchemy@mcs.com


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" - Groucho Marx



Thu Feb 22 10:12:38 1996
Subject: 0276 Locating the prima materia

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 07:46 NZDT
From: Pat Zalewski


>From: Beat Krummenacher
>
>The discussion on the prima materia is central in alchemy. Reading the current
>messages to this theme it has struck me, that obscurity exists about the
>different application of this household name. Up to now the philosophical
>meanings of the prima materia were discussed in the main. I would like to
>emphasize, that the term is used also for completely concrete and practical
>substances.

I know where you are coming from but I disagree. The Prima materia is the
first matter utilised. Not the second third or fourth stage or even the
rework, otherwise I'd call it something else. Frankly I do not think some of
the early writers would make that mistake either. It was still a good post
though!

Pat zalewski


Thu Feb 22 10:12:50 1996
Subject: 0277 Locating the prima materia

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 23:43:53 PST
From:A.J.Le Sage



Lapis wrote:
'We see therefore: Blackness and prima materia are terms, which were used for
many materials and various conditions of the work. The above-mentioned only
should serve as clue. If an alchemist learns to associate the right materials
and right levels of the work with the passages of alchemical writings, so all
current obscurity will escape. He will see with his own eyes, that the allegedly
philosophical and abstract descriptions of the alchemists are well-founded in a
practice, which actually exists. A practice, which only remains concealed to the
man, who may or can not understand'.


Does he (?) really wish to say that, during this period of torrential enlightenment,
(or 'Reworking'), he (the alchemist), sees HIS EYES, (everywhere), like
St Narcissus, enveloped in the love for his own reflection within the Universal
Water, became absorbed, leaving behind his own Eco. Perhaps 'Lapis' has
it in his,(?), own mind to suggest those words of the 'Corpus'
in saying that he perceives himself to be at the 'Hub' of ALL.
I would like to think that our friend 'Lapis' really identifies with both
of these concepts and experiencesAT THE SAME TIME - without confusion ?
Was this not the 'Peacock' phase of the work, exacted upon the ethereal matter we
would so hope to 'imprint' upon our matter ?
It is only a thought, a small thought, but we all, alas, suffer from them!

Writing on 'Le Sage's' line : NICHOLAS JOLLIVET MCMXCVI


Thu Feb 22 10:13:02 1996
Subject: 0278 alchemy and christianity

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 01:22:32 PST
From: A.J.Le Sage



The Catherdrals of northern Europe were built by
the Normans , the term Gothic, in this
case is planly not derived from the culture of the "Goths"
or" Wisigoths" it relates, in the main to the "Argotique" and
possibly the "Goetic art" - that by which Solomon enslaved
Daemons to constuct his "church" by the use of a brass
vessel or "Head"
The Sufi term for the same implys the enbarcation upon
a spiritaully - involved "work".

"To make a head of gold" was a common euphamism
used by Sufi Adepts to denote there path the Alchemical
sciences.
The "Goths" were extanted around 600-700AD these
edificie's were constructed in the 12th and 13th century.
---------------Original Message---------------
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 00:56:27 PST
From: Jason_Johns


I know that the cathedrals which reveal much occult information are
those built in the 'gothic' era, such as Chatres in France, which is
probably the most famous of them.

There is a church in Scotland called Rosslyn which is also very
mysterious and powerful.

Jayzn

>Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 22:34:36 PST
>From: A.J.Le Sage
>
>
>Have anyone considered the reasons why Alchemy was
>so prolithic among the medeval clergy.
>1 An Abbey would offer the safest of Havens for study.
>2 The Abbeys were the only place where the realvant
>documents could be found.
>

It is said that many of the great cathedrals were representations of the
alchemical secrets, in stone. There is definitely a connection there between
Christianity and alchemy, though where it begins and ends is a mystery.




Thu Feb 22 10:13:11 1996
Subject: 0279 By Faith alone

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 01:05:14 PST
From: A.J.Le Sage


Social history apart, you are absolutely correct. High
pomposity and dogma have always remained the
water mark of the soco - political religion; we need only
to consider the antithesis of "Dogma"!

---------------Original Message---------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:05:08 +1100
From: Petra Gottlieb

A.J. Le Sage wrote: But what of Faith? in answer to my "Belief is error if
it just stays believe and not becomes conviction.

The "dogma" laid down by the church about Martin Luther's "By faith alone"
has given rise to much misunderstanding, and in all these centuries it could
never be satisfactorily explained. Lutherans are now reproached with being
no longer capable even of making Luther's basic idea of justification
through faith understandable to men.
Luther in his struggle with the churches found support in the teaching of
Paul, that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law (Rom.
3,28), for applied to his position they meant: "Justification before God
comes from faith, NOT FROM THE WORKS OF THE CHURCH."
Paul himself supplements his teaching of justification when he writes in his
Epistle to the Galations: "For in Christ availeth only faith, WHICH WORKS BY
LOVE (Gal. 5.6). Hence faith must be transformed into deed, and this deed
must be filled with love.
Even James in his Epistle in the NT wrote as if to amend and clarify Paul's
view: "By works was faith made perfect" (2, 22); "Ye see then how that by
works a man is justified, and not by faith alone" (2, 24); "For as the body
without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (2, 26).

Belief remains a "blind faith" if it has not become conviction.
---
PETRA CHRISTIANE GOTTLIEB




Thu Feb 22 14:47:09 1996
Subject: 0280 A Lighter Moment

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 23:52:42 +1100
From: Petra Gottlieb


Hello members of the forum,
In the original Alchemist's Handbook published May 6, 1960 a preamble by
"The Kybalion" appeared in the conclusion. It stated:

>>The halfwise, not recognising the comparative reality of the universe,
imagine that they may defy and/or ignore its laws. Such are vain and
presumptuous idiots. They will be broken against the rocks and torn asunder
by the elements through their foolishness.
The truly wise, knowing the Nature of the Universe use law against law; the
higher against the lower; and by the Art of Alchemy transmute that which is
undesirable into that which is worthy and thus triumph over adversity.
Mastery consists not of abnormal dreams, visions and fantastic imaginings
but by using the higher forces against the lower mundane energies.
To escape the pain of the lower world one must graduate the mind to highest
levels. Transmutation of the Self is to accomplish Mastery not denial of the
Law. <<

The exclusion of this caption distracts from the statements made in the
conclusion about "Why all this secretness". It is necessary because so many
dedicated people fail in their pursuit through starting too near the finish,
expecting that they may gain their objective by force rather than by grace.
We may yet decide to go back to the beginning, and check where we deviated
and prepare again for the whole journey.

Greetings from Alec Gathercole
using Petra's e-mail facility (petrag@iaccess.com.au)


Thu Feb 22 17:47:41 1996
Subject: 0281 alchemy and christianity

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 08:44:42 -0600
From: George Randall Leake III


>From: A.J.Le Sage wrote-->
>The Catherdrals of northern Europe were built by
>the Normans , the term Gothic, in this
>case is planly not derived from the culture of the "Goths"
>or" Wisigoths" it relates, in the main to the "Argotique" and
>possibly the "Goetic art" - that by which Solomon enslaved
>Daemons to constuct his "church" by the use of a brass
>vessel or "Head"

***while one can allow the argument that the Normans might not be related
to the Visigoths, how does one make the connection to Solomon's daemon
"goetic art"? Also given the common usage of the term goetia during the
ancient era in the Near East, how does that square with this usage?


Thu Feb 22 21:55:02 1996
Subject: 0282 Pico della Mirandola

I post this message on behalf of Torrey Waag.

I have been reading Frances Yates fine book, Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition, and I have become enamored with the writings of Pico della Mirandola. I wish to refer to his work, albeit briefly, in my own writing.
Do you know of an accessible English translation of Pico's writing, specifically his Conclusiones Magicae and his Conclusiones Cabalistae on the net?
In all honesty, I have not yet searched the public library system as my home is quite remote being three hours from San Francisco.


Thu Feb 22 22:41:18 1996
Subject: 0283 alchemy and christianity

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 21:12:24 PST
From: A.J.Le Sage

Any cursory glance at an edifice proporting to be "Gothic"
will discern the Art form to be nothing of the kind in relation to the Goth's!
The conection with "Artgotique", ("The Language of the Argonaults
- Common slang") is only one aspect to be surendered to the knowing
"Eye".
The refference to the "Art Goetic of Goetic art cannot remain either
dismised or profaned.
Irrispective of the concept of "salomonic" implcation one should
consider it's inevitabilty.
Perhaps you might proffer an alturnative arangment then I would
like to here. Without such assertive assumptions you cannot , nor
should not dismiss the "Abiff-hirim"; knowledge of which wil give you
insight into the realms of "No TIme" nad the point of all seeing. My friend
Fulcanelli knows this fablulous secret.
In every object in which man has a vested spiritual interest you will
find the signs. For every succesful adept becomes a signwriter, whether
it be in stone, paint, tone or the written word - your thougths please.

---------------Original Message---------------
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 08:44:42 -0600
From: George Randall Leake III


>From: A.J.Le Sage wrote-->
>The Catherdrals of northern Europe were built by
>the Normans , the term Gothic, in this
>case is planly not derived from the culture of the "Goths"
>or" Wisigoths" it relates, in the main to the "Argotique" and
>possibly the "Goetic art" - that by which Solomon enslaved
>Daemons to constuct his "church" by the use of a brass
>vessel or "Head"

***while one can allow the argument that the Normans might not be related
to the Visigoths, how does one make the connection to Solomon's daemon
"goetic art"? Also given the common usage of the term goetia during the
ancient era in the Near East, how does that square with this usage?


Fri Feb 23 09:15:59 1996
Subject: 0284 Prima materia

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 20:18:32 -0500
From: Rawn Clark


Dear Beat/Lapis,

Your words on the Prima materia, have been, as always,
most helpful and illuminating! They have helped immeasurably
in my current studies. Please accept this humble (and
hopefully NOT humiliating ) attempt at poetry as a token of
my heartfelt thanks. It was written today, and is the result of my
alchemical mind observing last night's snowfall.

**********SNOWFALL*************
Snow falls upon this Dark, moonless night.
Turning this Black to a luminous Grey-White.
The meagre light of distant Stars, multiplied by a number untold.
Descends, transforming this Earth, and rapt, I watch Her unfold.

I arise to find the Sun, brightly shining.
And a world changed White, made nearly blinding.
The bright rays of Light, leave no corner unturned.
Drip, drip, drip, and the White is burned.

Round about noon, steam rising up do I see.
Great clouds joyous singing:"Father Sun, we come to Thee."
Who knows, but perhaps with Divine Grace.
They too may Snow, some where, some time, some place.

'Round and 'round and 'round.
One Substance to be found.
Three in One, Five in One, Seven in One, Ten in One.
Ancient Mother of all...endlessly done and undone.

Thank you Sir Lapis, for White Wisdom's words.
They set me aloft, like an arrow to man, or a crow to birds.
Bless you Sir Lapis, as you have Blessed me.
And Bless most of all, the One who is Three!

:) Rawn Clark
22 Feb 96


Fri Feb 23 09:16:12 1996
Subject: 0285 A Lighter Moment

Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 16:31 NZDT
From: Pat Zalewski


>Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 23:52:42 +1100
>From: Petra Gottlieb
>
>
>Hello members of the forum,
>In the original Alchemist's Handbook published May 6, 1960 a preamble by
>"The Kybalion" appeared in the conclusion. It stated:
>
>>>The halfwise, not recognising the comparative reality of the universe,
>imagine that they may defy and/or ignore its laws. Such are vain and
>presumptuous idiots. They will be broken against the rocks and torn asunder
>by the elements through their foolishness.

(not a bad statement from the three who wrote the Kybalion were kicked out
of the Golden dawn by Moina Mathers because, among other things, they were
too full of themselves PZ)

>The truly wise, knowing the Nature of the Universe use law against law; the
>higher against the lower; and by the Art of Alchemy transmute that which is
>undesirable into that which is worthy and thus triumph over adversity.
>Mastery consists not of abnormal dreams, visions and fantastic imaginings
>but by using the higher forces against the lower mundane energies.
>To escape the pain of the lower world one must graduate the mind to highest
>levels. Transmutation of the Self is to accomplish Mastery not denial of the
>Law. <<

(Considering paul Case, one of the writers of the Kybalion, used to get
clairvoyant messages this way, he went against his own information. In my
humble opinion the Higher forces come through to us this way. PZ)

>The exclusion of this caption distracts from the statements made in the
>conclusion about "Why all this secretness". It is necessary because so many
>dedicated people fail in their pursuit through starting too near the finish,
>expecting that they may gain their objective by force rather than by grace.
>We may yet decide to go back to the beginning, and check where we deviated
>and prepare again for the whole journey.

(I don't think so. I see it as a few people having access to knowledge and
dispensing it out to favourites. Thank god we organisations like the `Philosphers of Nature' in alchemy and who are willing to share. Though I do
agree with your last sentence Alec.)

>
>Greetings from Alec Gathercole
>using Petra's e-mail facility (petrag@iaccess.com.au)


Fri Feb 23 09:16:26 1996
Subject: 0286 Pico

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 19:48:47 -0800
From: Torrey Waag


The following is the full text of the letter I sent Adam, which he
truncated and posted. In addition, I have included some comments on Pico
from my notebook.

Dear Adam,

My name is Torrey Waag. I have an interest in Alchemy, particularly
the connections of Alchemy with the Enneagram. In my view, both of
the originators of the Enneagram system, George Gurdjieff and Oscar
Ichazo, were alchemists of the inner transformation sort. Gurdjieff
called the Enneagram the Philosopher's Stone of the Alchemists, and
Ichazo, who directly seeded the Enneagram of Personality that
contemporary psychologists have sprouted so diligently, lectured on
and taught the practices of Alchemy. But that is not why I write.

I have been reading Frances Yates fine book, Giordano Bruno and the
Hermetic Tradition, and I have become enamored with the writings of
Pico della Mirandola. I wish to refer to his work, albeit briefly,
in my own writing. Do you know of an accessible English translation
of Pico's writing, specifically his Conclusiones Magicae and his
Conclusiones Cabalistae on the net? In all honesty, I have not yet
searched the public library system as my home is quite remote being
three hours from San Francisco. I noticed that you listed Pico's
five volumes in the Alchemy page bibliography.

I appreciate the work you are doing and have used the Alchemy page
with much benefit. I am not however very internet literate, nor do
I wish to enter the public fray at this time although I have been
reading the posts on the mailing list for some months.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions you may offer,

Torrey Waag
torrey@netcom.com


Notes on Pico della Mirandola from Yate's Bruno
(from my notebook, sketchy, needs more data)

In 1486 Pico Della Mirandola a practical cabalist and early scientist
of consciousness, went to Rome with 900 theses containing 72 conclusions
that he offered to debate. Pico believed his 900 theses or points drawn
from all philosophies (including astrology, alchemy, natural magic,
cabala, Orphic Hymns, Caldean Oracles, Neoplatonism, Pythagoreanism,
and the writings of Hermes Trismegistus, to be reconcilable with one
another. But Pico's timing was off, official Rome lashed out, and he
chose apology over jail.

However, Pico (a suspected One on the Enneagram) coupled his apology
with a daring oration titled the Divinity of Man, which summoned a bishop
with the power of inquisition and Pico served time in heresy jail before
spending his golden years in pious and humble retreat.

Among the theses that offended Rome was Pico's conclusion that the inner
arts are necessary to know Truth. Pico's challenge was to Rome. Yet today,
500 years later, the current holder of the Banner of Truth, contemporary
science, in spite of Pico, Pythagerous and Plato, still misses the point
that the inner arts (Alchemy) are necessary to know Truth.

In 1493 the new pope Alexander VI succeeding Innocent VIII exonerated
Pico in a letter describing him 'as illuminated by 'divina largitas'
and as a faithful son of the church'. (New Age Christians, seeking
papal approval, need look no further than Alexander VI, the Borgia
pope, a colorful renaissance figure, who 'was not at all adverse to
astrology and magic but, on the contrary was deeply interested in
those subjects'.)


Does anyone know of English translations of Pico's work?

Thanks.
Torrey

As an aside, the Enneagram is an indispensable tool in the inner process
of solve et coagula.


Fri Feb 23 09:16:49 1996
Subject: 0287 Correction

Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 12:57:33 +1100
From: Petra Gottlieb


Dear Members,
The post 0280 "A Lighter Moment" is not from me!
I have written this ON BEHALF OF ALEC GATHERCOLE, who had been studying with
Frater Albertus for many years at the time when the former Paracelsus
College was still in existence. Alec is thinking of reincarnating the
college, please refer to Adam's web site under "Other Oranisations dedicated
to Alchemy". Alec does not own a computer as yet, so he uses my e-mail
facility to have access to and participate on the forum.
Kind Regard,
---
PETRA CHRISTIANE GOTTLIEB
petrag@iaccess.com.au

>>OHNE LIEBE KEINE KUNST!<< (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!


Fri Feb 23 19:39:00 1996
To: Alchemy forum - zz.com
Subject: 0288 Pico della/Library Catalogs

From: John Obrien
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 12:39:23 -0600 (CST)

> Do you know of an accessible English translation of Pico's writing,
> specifically his Conclusiones Magicae and his Conclusiones Cabalistae on the
> net?
> In all honesty, I have not yet searched the public library system as my home
> is quite remote being three hours from San Francisco.
>
Of Course, search your local library catalogs but the likelyhood of finding
many 'real' books on Alchemy is small. On the other hand, several years
ago when I was very actively researching Alchemy and related subjects, I
had occasion to investigate a private 'science and technology' library in
the Kansas City, Mo area. There are also several others of the same genre'
in other parts of the world.

Our library is "The Linda Hall Library" and just recently came on-line
with the web. They do have a fair number of Alchemy texts and commentaries
on same. They also have a rare book room with original books from
antiquity. I have not been to this library for a couple years as I have
some difficulty traveling due to contracting Multiple Sclerosis several
years ago. When last I patronized The Linda Hall Library, I did have
check-out status which very few patrons have.

I am including here a web page address for Linda Hall Library as well as
a telnet address.
telnet to Leonardo
telnet opac.lhl.lib.mo.us
#Linda Hall Library
http://www.lhl.lib.mo.us/
The telnet address is a direct link to their on-line catalog and the
Alchemy texts I found primarily in the QD24 area.

The reason I mentioned above about having check-out status was not to brag,
but to let people know that under certain conditions I will go to the
library for you, get a certain book (Most are either not copyrighted or
are long out of it) copy it and mail it to you. To mention a couple that
I have copied for myself, Libellus Alchemia, Albertus Magnus translated
to English by Sister Virginia Heines; A Lexicon of Alchemy, (I forgot
the author, it starts with an 'L'). Another interesting book which is
there, is St. Anne de Alchemia, which is a French work and deals with
(as I understand) the works of the Grandmother of Jesus. After I first
found this book, I started trying to find out more about St. Anne and
there is virtually nothing available outside of (maybe) the Vatican.
I found that very curious.

Well, enough for now. My address is below if anyone wants to contact me.

--
,o888b,`?~~~~~ ~~~~~P',d888o,
,8888 888 ?~~~ John D. O'Brien obriens@sound.net ~~~P 888 8888,
8888888P' ~~~ ~~~ ?8888888
888P' ~~~ "When all the World recognizes ~~~ `?888
`88 O d~~~ good as good, This in itself ~~~b O 88'
`?._ _.o~~~~~ is Evil." Lao Tsu ~~~~~o._ _.P'


Fri Feb 23 19:39:12 1996
To: Alchemy forum - zz.com
Subject: 0289 alchemy and christianity

Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 08:55:39 -0600
From: George Randall Leake III


*off the cuff I would have to say that we're almost heading into the
territory here where words/labels are not really all that meaningful, or
in some cases too general
*your point seems to be that the "successful adept becomes a signwriter",
in other words the essence is the message in the symbols, right? Instead of
arguing like two amateur art critics over what is Gothic or not, we should
be discussing the substance?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 21:12:24 PST
>From: A.J.Le Sage
>
>Any cursory glance at an edifice proporting to be "Gothic"
>will discern the Art form to be nothing of the kind in relation to the Goth's!
>The conection with "Artgotique", ("The Language of the Argonaults
> - Common slang") is only one aspect to be surendered to the knowing
>"Eye".
>The refference to the "Art Goetic of Goetic art cannot remain either
>dismised or profaned.
>Irrispective of the concept of "salomonic" implcation one should
>consider it's inevitabilty.
>Perhaps you might proffer an alturnative arangment then I would
>like to here. Without such assertive assumptions you cannot , nor
>should not dismiss the "Abiff-hirim"; knowledge of which wil give you
>insight into the realms of "No TIme" nad the point of all seeing. My friend
>Fulcanelli knows this fablulous secret.
>In every object in which man has a vested spiritual interest you will
>find the signs. For every succesful adept becomes a signwriter, whether
>it be in stone, paint, tone or the written word - your thougths please.
>
>---------------Original Message---------------
>Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 08:44:42 -0600
>From: George Randall Leake III
>
>
>>From: A.J.Le Sage wrote-->
>>The Catherdrals of northern Europe were built by
>>the Normans , the term Gothic, in this
>>case is planly not derived from the culture of the "Goths"
>>or" Wisigoths" it relates, in the main to the "Argotique" and
>>possibly the "Goetic art" - that by which Solomon enslaved
>>Daemons to constuct his "church" by the use of a brass
>>vessel or "Head"
>
>***while one can allow the argument that the Normans might not be related
>to the Visigoths, how does one make the connection to Solomon's daemon
>"goetic art"? Also given the common usage of the term goetia during the
>ancient era in the Near East, how does that square with this usage?


Fri Feb 23 19:39:25 1996
To: Alchemy forum - zz.com
Subject: 0290 alchemy and christianity

Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 10:49:52 -0600 (CST)
From: WTHEISEN


I DOUBT VERY MUCH WHETHER THERE ARE ANY RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES TODAY
THAT ARE ENGAGED IN ALCHEMY. FROM THE DOCUMENTS THAT I HAVE
STUDIED I FIND THAT THE MONKS AND FRIARS PURSUED ALCHEMY FOR THE
FOLLOWING REASONS: TO RAISE MONEY TO HELP THE POOR AND THE WIDOWS,
TO RAISE MONEY FOR THE BUILDING OF CATHEDRALS AND RELIGIOUS HOUSES,
TO CURE SICKNESSES OF VARIOUS KINDS, TO PRESERVE YOUTH, TO AVOID
OLD AGE, TO EXTEND LIFE, TO ACQUIRE WISDOM. THE STATED REASONS
FOR OPPOSITION TO ALCHEMY THAT I HAVE FOUND ARE: IT IS FRAUDALENT,
IT IS EXPENSIVE, IT IS UNHEALTHY, IT IS DEMONIC. AS FAR AS I CAN
DISCOVER, THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH CONDEMNED THE PRACTICE OF
ALCHEMY BECAUSE IT WAS FRAUDULENT AND WAS CONSIDERED DEMONIC. DOES
ANYONE KNOW OF ANY DECREES THAT CONDEMN ALCHEMY FOR ANY OTHER
REASONS? PLEASE ADVISE AS TO WHERE I MIGHT FIND THE DECREES IF
YOU KNOW OF ANY. I SUSPECT THAT ALCHEMY WAS CONSIDERED A KIND
OF PELAGIANISM BUT I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND ANY TEXT BY ANYONE
THAT STATES THIS IN THE 13TH AND 14TH CENTURIES.
WILFRED THEISEN


Sat Feb 24 10:45:32 1996
Subject: 0291 A Lighter Moment

Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 11:51:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: LeGrand Cinq-Mars


This is a bit of a digression -- but I have heard that Paul Case
was one of the auhtors of the Kybalion; now Pat Zalewski says that
all three were expelled by Moina Mathers. Who were the other two?
Is there any good material available on the authorship and background
of the _Kybalion_?

Thanks

LeGrand Cinq-Mars
rjb@u.washington.edu


Sat Feb 24 10:45:17 1996
Subject: 0292 Stone to Stone

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 11:38:54 +1100


Dear Lapis (Beat Kummenacher),

In full admiration I read your last post. I was intrigued and felt teased
and very annoyed because I still wasn't able to put my hands on the matters.
Before your time I once sang to the forum a German song straight out of
Goethe's Faust I, Gretchen's prison song, which I translated in this manner:

My mother, the slut (Morality corrupted into Immorality)
who murdered me,
My father, the villian (Intellect gone astray in misconceptions,
misinterpretations, and conceipt)
who devoured me!
My sister, the "little" one (the "big" one has yet to be borne)
picked up the bones (that which remains after the carnibal feast)
at a cool surrounding. (grave, underground)
Then I became a beautiful little forrest bird; (Spirit)
Fly away! Fly away! (volatile substance without body)

And then I said: There you have your "prima materia", and that this concept
reminded me of a "Russian Doll" . If you take off the first (outer) layer,
in the above case because of corruption, you find there is another inside,
and on opening that one, there is another, and another...until you come to
the core, which is the "real" human being (potentially and in desperate need
of development and re-generation).

I have no problem understanding Goethe philosophically (weil ich es selbst
durch- und erlebt habe), but I would like so very much to assimilate
"Gretchens Kerkerlied" to the alchemical process, which Goethe also had in mind.

On the one side you have that quarternity Mutter-Hur und Vater-Schelm,
which substances are they? Are these the 4 elements? Is "Schwesterlein
klein" the Quintessence? What about the bones she picks up? Is that the Salt
of the Alchemists? If you combine the two, Quintessence with the Salt, what
do you get then? The Egg? The Hermaphrodite? Our Mercury?
But where is the Sulpher?

If you could give me some clues on the above I would jump for joy.
Kind regards and many thanks for your last post


---
PETRA CHRISTIANE GOTTLIEB
petrag@iaccess.com.au

>>OHNE LIEBE KEINE KUNST!<< (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!



Sat Feb 24 10:45:38 1996
Subject: 0293 alchemy and christianity

Date: Sat, 24 Feb 96 02:28:56 PST
From: A.J.Le Sage

I am happy tp acknowledge your remarks; however, if one does not posess the
'Substance', how might one comment with any authority, upon the 'Matter'.
'Signwriter;-enough, We, (you), cannot afford to differ in opinion enough as
to ;Fall-Out' with your collegues who, after all, are searching for the self-same
'Fleece'!
Every adept is duty-bound to leave behind them a 'footprint in the sand'.
You must not presume our work to be that easy. What concerns me is
the misinterpretation, sealed by a mistrusting mind against every
indication we have given.
LUX VERATATIS ALET ALTARI TEMPLI

My Foundest Regards N.J.
---------------Original Message---------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 08:55:39 -0600
From: George Randall Leake III


*off the cuff I would have to say that we're almost heading into the
territory here where words/labels are not really all that meaningful, or
in some cases too general
*your point seems to be that the "successful adept becomes a signwriter",
in other words the essence is the message in the symbols, right? Instead of
arguing like two amateur art critics over what is Gothic or not, we should
be discussing the substance?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 21:12:24 PST
>From: A.J.Le Sage
>
>Any cursory glance at an edifice proporting to be "Gothic"
>will discern the Art form to be nothing of the kind in relation to the Goth's!
>The conection with "Artgotique", ("The Language of the Argonaults
> - Common slang") is only one aspect to be surendered to the knowing
>"Eye".
>The refference to the "Art Goetic of Goetic art cannot remain either
>dismised or profaned.
>Irrispective of the concept of "salomonic" implcation one should
>consider it's inevitabilty.
>Perhaps you might proffer an alturnative arangment then I would
>like to here. Without such assertive assumptions you cannot , nor
>should not dismiss the "Abiff-hirim"; knowledge of which wil give you
>insight into the realms of "No TIme" nad the point of all seeing. My friend
>Fulcanelli knows this fablulous secret.
>In every object in which man has a vested spiritual interest you will
>find the signs. For every succesful adept becomes a signwriter, whether
>it be in stone, paint, tone or the written word - your thougths please.
>
>---------------Original Message---------------
>Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 08:44:42 -0600
>From: George Randall Leake III
>
>
>>From: A.J.Le Sage wrote-->
>>The Catherdrals of northern Europe were built by
>>the Normans , the term Gothic, in this
>>case is planly not derived from the culture of the "Goths"
>>or" Wisigoths" it relates, in the main to the "Argotique" and
>>possibly the "Goetic art" - that by which Solomon enslaved
>>Daemons to constuct his "church" by the use of a brass
>>vessel or "Head"
>
>***while one can allow the argument that the Normans might not be related
>to the Visigoths, how does one make the connection to Solomon's daemon
>"goetic art"? Also given the common usage of the term goetia during the
>ancient era in the Near East, how does that square with this usage?



Sat Feb 24 10:45:44 1996
Subject: 0294 alchemy and christianity

Date: Sat, 24 Feb 96 02:11:50 PST
From: A.J.Le Sage


Having read your missle I remain perplexed. Why are you writing in
capitals, I can here your print - Irrespective of size!
You should have realised by now that as many have said: No monk
can be an Alchemist due his isolation from the wourld and it's stress.
Further more, repudiation of the cross is paramount to knowledge,
(it was, after all the bases upon which the Order of the Temple
were charged) as, undoubtedly, the Templars were in possesion
of a secret sufficient for us to mention, why do you preoccupy yourself
with Monastic action.

Regards A.
---------------Original Message---------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 10:49:52 -0600 (CST)
From: WTHEISEN


I DOUBT VERY MUCH WHETHER THERE ARE ANY RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES TODAY
THAT ARE ENGAGED IN ALCHEMY. FROM THE DOCUMENTS THAT I HAVE
STUDIED I FIND THAT THE MONKS AND FRIARS PURSUED ALCHEMY FOR THE
FOLLOWING REASONS: TO RAISE MONEY TO HELP THE POOR AND THE WIDOWS,
TO RAISE MONEY FOR THE BUILDING OF CATHEDRALS AND RELIGIOUS HOUSES,
TO CURE SICKNESSES OF VARIOUS KINDS, TO PRESERVEch God differentiate OLD AGE, TO EXTEND LIFE, TO ACQUIRE WISDOM. THE STATED REASONS
FOR OPPOSITION TO ALCHEMY THAT I HAVE FOUND ARE: IT IS FRAUDALENT,
IT IS EXPENSIVE, IT IS UNHEALTHY, IT IS DEMONIC. AS FAR AS I CAN
DISCOVER, THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH CONDEMNED THE PRACTICE OF
ALCHEMY BECAUSE IT WAS FRAUDULENT AND WAS CONSIDERED DEMONIC. DOES
ANYONE KNOW OF ANY DECREES THAT CONDEMN ALCHEMY FOR ANY OTHER
REASONS? PLEASE ADVISE AS TO WHERE I MIGHT FIND THE DECREES IF
YOU KNOW OF ANY. I SUSPECT THAT ALCHEMY WAS CONSIDERED A KIND
OF PELAGIANISM BUT I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND ANY TEXT BY ANYONE
THAT STATES THIS IN THE 13TH AND 14TH CENTURIES.
WILFRED THEISEN



Sat Feb 24 10:45:51 1996
Subject: 0295 Pico della/Library Catalogs

From: John Obrien
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 21:22:39 -0600 (CST)


> From: John Obrien
> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 12:39:23 -0600 (CST)
>
> I am including here a web page address for Linda Hall Library as well as
> a telnet address.
> telnet to Leonardo
> telnet opac.lhl.lib.mo.us
> #Linda Hall Library

Stupid me; I forgot to include a logon and password for the telnet session.

logon: leonardo
password: lhl

--
,o888b,`?~~~~~ ~~~~~P',d888o,
,8888 888 ?~~~ John D. O'Brien obriens@sound.net ~~~P 888 8888,
8888888P' ~~~ ~~~ ?8888888
888P' ~~~ "When all the World recognizes ~~~ `?888
`88 O d~~~ good as good, This in itself ~~~b O 88'
`?._ _.o~~~~~ is Evil." Lao Tsu ~~~~~o._ _.P'


Sat Feb 24 10:45:59 1996
Subject: 0296 Pico della/Library Catalogs

From: Vic Stevens
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 22:54:47 -0500


As a former librarian, I recall there should be no problem calling (on the
telephone) a library and asking for reference and or interlibrary loan
assistance. Call a big city library that has extensive online access.If you
explain your physical situation (MS), they'd probably be more than just
ordinarily polite and helpful to you. Reference librarians live to serve,
and they love a challenge. If you befriend one, the rewards may be great.
There are specialists, too, ask if anyone specializes in history, or
medieval, Florentine or other related history.

Also try university libraries. Determine if they are liberal arts, and
whether they have a history department. There may be a small library
associated with the department, and persons there can be of assistance to
you, too. Altho such places are not nec. open to the public, they may let
you visit and or borrow for a fee. Good luck, and happy researching.


Sat Feb 24 10:46:05 1996
Subject: 0297 Stone to Stone

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 16:04:56 +1100

Dear Lapis,
Which in "Gretchen's Kerkerlied" (Faust I) is the first, second and third
matter? I forgot to ask this in my previous post.
Best regards
---
PETRA CHRISTIANE GOTTLIEB
petrag@iaccess.com.au

>>OHNE LIEBE KEINE KUNST!<< (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!


Sat Feb 24 18:11:54 1996
Subject: 0298 Prima materia

Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 08:57:55 -0500 (EST)
From: John Reid


Rawn it was nice to wake up saturday morning to read your poetry. It
painted some rather nice visions in my head.
Your Brother and Servant
John H. Reid III


Sun Feb 25 15:45:04 1996
Subject: 0299 religious orders, alchemy and gold

From: Anastasy Tynan
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 08:05:55 -1000


Just a note: the religious life of the Middle Ages was quite varied. While
it all might seem to be taken from "The Name of the Rose"-- we shouldn't
confuse monks and mendicants and canons with Sean Connery and the boys! In
fact, the mendicant orders of friars (Dominicans and Franciscans) had a
great deal to do with gold and monetary exchange. Please see Lester K.
Little's (approximate title) Religious Renewal and the Medieval Economy.
One of the great dilemmas of the medieval world was the outpourings of
stored gold into the marketplace and the breakdown of feudal ties of
exchange. (Interestingly enough, Japan went through exactly the same
dilemma four hundred years later-- witnessed by the presence of the same
mendicant orders!) Gold was seen to be "dirty" when used to purchase
consumer goods from merchants with whom one had no family or tribal ties.
According to Lester Little, it was the spirituality of the friars that
appealed to the new merchant classes, while the spirituality of the feudal
era had been monastic and primarily Benedictine.

A quick look at members of religious orders involved in alchemy might be
seeds for thought.
The friars developed a tradition of the natural sciences, with the discovery
of Aristotle's works and other factors.
Roger Bacon- Franciscan
Trithemius- Benedictine, later period
Thomas and Albertus - Dominican
One might guess that regular canons would be involved with the work also.

I haven't mentioned the Templars' development of checking and banking.

One could consider the outpouring of gold from the storehouses of the early
medieval period to be a great watermark in the history of Western society.
It seems like a great alchemical process on a wider scale. A similar
movement would be the transport of Western gold to the Far East for spices,
the looting of Incan gold by the Spanish, the flux of gold to the Arab oil
states and to Japan and China in today's world. The redistribution of the
world's gold deposits, through commerce, is a bit like birds transporting
seeds from one continent to another. Gold builds and dissolves social and
political structures and touches each of our lives.

Cheers,
A.

PS Is the little booklet "Gold" by Walter Johannes Stein still
available? He had some interesting insights into the spiritual role of gold
in Western history.


Sun Feb 25 15:45:13 1996
Subject: 0300 A Lighter Moment

From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 07:28 NZDT


>Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 11:51:41 -0700 (PDT)
>From: LeGrand Cinq-Mars
>
>This is a bit of a digression -- but I have heard that Paul Case
>was one of the auhtors of the Kybalion; now Pat Zalewski says that
>all three were expelled by Moina Mathers. Who were the other two?
>Is there any good material available on the authorship and background
>of the _Kybalion_?


They were Michael Whitty and Charles Atkins, the other two chiefs of the
Thoth Hermes temple.

Pat zalewski