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Rafal T. Prinke Member 
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I wonder if anyone has come across this term? It appears in the Treatise on Sulphur by Sendivogius: at the end of the dialogue it says:Then Saturn took two kinds of quicksilver, of different substance but one root, washed them with his urine, and called them the sulphurs of sulphurs.It is mentioned in some later text (e.g. Thomas Vaughan) with references to Sendivogius but is any earlier instance known? The closest match seems to be Isaac Hollandus with his Opus Saturni and short Tractatus de urina -- but the former does not mention urine, while the latter does not mention Saturn! Would that be the Principle of Dispersion of Knowledge? Last edited on Tue Feb 15th, 2011 11:50 pm by Rafal T. Prinke |
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Paul Ferguson Member 
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Rafal T. Prinke wrote:I wonder if anyone has come across this term? It appears in the Treatise on Sulphur by Sendivogius: at the end of the dialogue it says:Then Saturn took two kinds of quicksilver, of different substance but one root, washed them with his urine, and called them the sulphurs of sulphurs.It is mentioned in some later text (e.g. Thomas Vaughan) with references to Sendivogius but is any earlier instance known? Hi Rafał, For the record, the English phrase 'Saturn's urine' appears in the Trifertes Sagani of Cleidophorus Mystagogus (1705) and the term 'urine of Saturn' in the English translation of Christopher Grummet's Sanguis Naturae of 1696. As you say, the phrase is also found in Thomas Vaughan, who attributes it to Sendivogius. You also have 'Saturni urina' in Tacke, Triplex Phasis Sophicus (1676): http://books.google.com/books?id=qldAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=%22saturni+urina%22&source=bl&ots=wuS9jOvGBz&sig=QP0voWzC3ltAW8vOc0_movzaUMo&hl=en&ei=X8hbTbLiONC7hAfRl6WLDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22saturni%20urina%22&f=false but all these are later than Sendivogius, so it would seem that, not for the first time, the Poles have stolen a march on us :o) |
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Rafal T. Prinke Member
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but all these are later than Sendivogius, so it would seem that, not for the first time, the Poles have stolen a march on us :o) Thanks Paul! Perhaps earlier usage may be somehow "indirect". It is not at all clear what Sendivogius meant by that term. Donald Dickson in the glossary at the back of his edition of Aqua vitae says Vaughan used it as a synonym of aether but it also signified ammonium salt distilled from urine. If so, why Saturn is involved? On stealing a march, all I can remember is the Enigma and Wembley 1973  Last edited on Wed Feb 16th, 2011 02:39 pm by Rafal T. Prinke |
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Paul Ferguson Member
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Yes I was thinking of Enigma, but also Copernicus and Marie Curie. |
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Paul Ferguson Member
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Rafal T. Prinke wrote:but all these are later than Sendivogius, so it would seem that, not for the first time, the Poles have stolen a march on us :o) Doesn't Saturn govern the urine in medical astrology? http://www.indastro.com/astrology-articles/astrology_diabetes02.php |
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