Alchemy Forum 0751-0800

From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 751-800.
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Sat Apr 20 13:14:21 1996
Subject: 0751 20th Century Alchemists
From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 11:07:02 GMT

All "I" know of him was published in the ESSENTIA Vol.1 Spring 1980
by Dr. Albert Richard Riedel (Frater Albertus).

Petra Christiane Gottlieb

Sat Apr 20 13:14:33 1996
Subject: 0752 20th century alchemists
From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 96 11:49 NZST

In discussing the concept of starting a list of 20th century alchemists I
think we should establish some sort of criteria for them. So far most of the
names are of well known alchemists that have been published. This is of
course an excellent but if we rely on only published individuals we will
have a very short list indeed. No what form of criteria do we have to put
forward a name. There are a number of alchemists on this list that I am sure
are just as talented as Cockren and Fulcanelli /Champagne but we need a
guide line here. There are people on the forum such Gilbert, Reid , Kunkun
and also Lisiewski, Skinner, Nintizel, Baubault (son of) that would
automatically go on my list and these are people whose work I am familar
with, but there are alsoa number out there who work hard and achieve a lot
I have never heard of -though others have and this is where a guideline is
needed. The other alternative is to simply include the names of all
practical alchemists on the forum (and off it) with a bit of a bio on each.
Russ from the Philosphers of nature and Art Kunkin form his days in
Paracelsus could also supply a further list of people who have gone through
the courses and done extremely well.

Pat zalewski

Sat Apr 20 13:39:36 1996
Subject: List 3 of 20th Century alchemists
There is always a problem in drawing up such a list of 20th century alchemists, and we can debate the methodology for months I suppose. However, what I am trying to do is to identify people who have become identified as continuing the alchemical tradition, and in this sense have become icons representing the continuation of alchemy in the 20th century.

Third version of the list:-

Armand Barbault
Alexander von Bernus
Eugene Canseliet
Roger Caro
Archibald Cockren
Jean Dubuis
Simon H.
Manfred Junius
Alexandre Lachance
Albert Reidel - Frater Albertus

Sun Apr 21 17:03:18 1996
Subject: 0753 Alchemical Transcriptions

Several people have asked me to post a list of the microfilms which I wanted to have microfilmed in order that I can arrange to have them transcribed. Almost all of these are important philosophical, allegorical or spiritual works, which do not exist in English translation except in these manuscripts in the British Library. Most of these manuscripts have a number of component parts, which vary in length from 10 to 100 pages or more. I have recently examined all the manuscripts in this list and have chosen them partly because the handwriting in relatively easy to read. There are a quite a number of other important alchemical pieces in translation in the British Library, but not all as easy to read as the ones I have chosen for my list. The Cesare Ripa is not an alchemical piece, but a very important work on the interpretation of symbolism, that I consider essential for a grasp of how symbolism was used in emblem books and alchemical engravings of the 17th century.

With my best wishes,

Adam McLean


MS. Sloane 2188.
2. Treatise upon scriptural authority for the truth of the science of Alchymy.
3. Enigmatical rhymes upon the philosopher's stone.
4. Explanation of the Urim and Thummin, taken from Doctor Taylor's Book entitled 'Christ Revealed'.

MS. Sloane 3629.
1. 'Hortus Divinitarum- The garden of the riches of all the divine knowledge, divided and described in 20 chapters'.
4. A prose translation, apparently of some portion of an alchemical poem in a foreign tongue. They relate to the following processes, 'Of the Dissolution', 'Compositione', 'Of the Augmentation', 'Of the Projection'.
5. Translation of portions of Dr Henry Khunrath's 'Philosophische erkarung von und uber dem enserem Philosophischen Fewer': beginning in page 50 of the edition printed at Strassburg, in Octavo, 1608.

MS. Sloane 3630.
3. 'A treatise of Count Treverson [Bernardus Comes Marchiae Trevisanae], called in French, A word left, bequeathed or sent, etc'.

MS. Sloane 3614.
1. A dialogue entitled Lignum Vitae or the wood of life, in which also a short exposition of the Philosopher Geber is contained, written in Italian by John Bracescus, of Brixia.
2. The Correctorium Alchymiae by Richard de Glanvillae, or Ricardus Anglicus, translated into English.
3. The Vade Mecum of Raymund Lully, translated into English.
4. The Repertory or Inventory of Lully.
5. The significations of different letters, in the fourth volume of the Theatrum Chymicum of Strasburg in the practicall part of Raymund Lully's first testament.

MS. Sloane 3637.
1. English translation of an alchemical treatise, entitled 'Radix ab Umbra' or 'Restrictus Theoricus' (from Ginaeceum Chimicum, 1679)
2. 'A Dialogue; or Questions put by an Adept Master to a certain Scholar, with his answers'.
3. 'The Epistle of Haimo, concerning the four Philosophicall stones taking their matter out of the lesser world'.
4. 'The Summ of the German Rhymes concerning the universal work proceeding out of heaven and earth.
5. Extracts from 'Le grand esclaircissement de la Pierre Philosophall. Printed, Paris, 1628. [Nicholas Flamell.]
6. English Metrical translation of the Aenigma Philosophicum of Michael Sandivogius.
7. 'A dialogue of the Allchymist and Sulphur', in verse.
8. 'The Fountain of the Lovers of the Science [Fons Scientiae cupidorum] composed by John Fountain [Johannes Fontanus] of Valencienn, in the country of Hainault, Lyons, 1590.
9. 'A treatise of the Egg of the Philosophers, composed by Bernard Count Trevisan, A German. Paris 1659', written in the form of an epistle.
10. 'Of the original of the Philosophers' Stone and how it is finished by Art' - divided into two parts, the first containing four, the second seven treatises.

MS. Sloane 3638.
1. 'A most excellent book concerning the Philosopher's Stone, written heretofore by a nameless Philosopher' [From the Harmonia Chemico-Philosophica of Johannes Rhenanus, 1625.]
2. The 4th, 5th, and 6th Chapters of Guido de Montano de Arte Chymica.
3. 'The second epistle of Gratianus concerning the Argent Vives'.
4. 'Collections out of the Exercizes on the Turba of Philosophers in the Ars Aurifera.
5. 'An usefull Treatise of the Concordance of the Philosophers, written heretofore by a nameless Philosopher'. [From Harmonia Chymico Philosophica.]
6. 'Sr Thomas [de Aquino] on the shorter Turba of the Philosophers'.
7. 'An unknown concerning the Chymicall Art. But Lucerna Salis, affirms him to be Marcilius Ficinus, an Italian of the Dukedome of Florence or Tuscany, in the year 1518.'

MS. Sloane 3639.
1.'The Second Supplement to the Subterranean Naturall Philosophy; that is, A Philosophicall Demonstration or Chymicall Thesis of John Joachim Becher.
2. 'The Natural round Physick (or Philosophy) of the Chemicall Cabaliticall Vision' - a translation.
3. Translation of the fourth chapter, 'Of the Mountain of Venus', of a Latin Alchemical Treatise.
4. 'An admonition, an instruction and proof against all those who falsely perswade and propose both to themselves and to others to prepare for them in a short space of time an aurum potabile, without the process and tincture of the universall Philosophicall Stone: described briefly by a student in the Sophick labour, for the sake of the sons of Learning': translated from the German.
5. Two answers of F.R.C. (that is, of the Brothers of the Rosy Crosses) to some clients of theirs.
6. The Second Part, entitled, The Lilly among the Thorns, of the Arca Arcani artificiosissime de summis naturae mysteriis, compiled from the Rusticus major et minor of Johannes Grasseus, sive Chortalasseus.
7. 'The Practick of the authour, John Grasseus, Doctour of the Laws, and Syndick of Stralsund, who called himself Chortalessaeus'.

MS. Sloane 3640.
1. 'The Codicill or Goe with me of Raymund Lully, a most learn'd philosopher'.
2. English translation of the Vade Mecum Philosophicum of Agricola Rhomaeus.
3. 'The Text of Alchymy and the green dream'.
4. The letter of a Philosopher concerning the Secret of the great Work. Written on the subject of the Instructions which Aristeus left to his son, concerning the Philosophick Magistery. The name of the authour is, in Latine, in this Anagramm 'Dives sicut ardens S'.
5. 'The little Treatise of Aristotle concerning the Practick of the Philosophers' Stone'.
6. 'The Treasury of Philosophy, or the originall of the Desirable Desire of Nicholas Flammel'.
7. 'The work of the Philosophers' Stone from the duell of the Knights. The sentence or decision of the Controversy of (or between) the Spirit and [Mercury] the Judge. Out of an ancient German writing call's the Warr of the Duell of the Knights to the Accusation and Answer of [Sun] and [Mars]: represented by pictures'.

MS. Sloane 3641.
1. 'The Practice of Mary the Prophetesse, in the Alchymicall Art'.
2. 'Mr Doctour Beckerus's Pantaleon Unmaskt, wishing to the Philochymicall Reader the Attainment of the desired truth'.
3. 'The third part of the work of Dionysius Zacharias, concerning the Practise of the divine Work'.
5. 'The fourth part of the Book of Bernard Count of Marchia Trevisana, of the Practise of the Philosophick Stone'.
7. 'Parole delaissée, or A word slipt out. A treatise of Bernard Count or Earl of the Country of Trevisa'.
8. 'The Adventures of an unknown Philosopher, by Abbe Belin'.
9. Alchemical verses: a translation, probably of a portion of a Latin or German Treatise.

MS. Sloane 3642.
1. A dialogue between Eudorus and Pyrophilus upon the ancient war of the Knights.
2. A letter to the true disciples of Hermes, containing six principle Keyes of the secret philosophie.
3. The Hermetical triumph or the Philosophers stone victorious, a treatise. The most compleat and most easy to bt understood of any hitherto touching the Hermetical Magisterium; or The ancient war of the Knights, being a dialogue between Or and Mercury on the Philosophers Stone with an Advertisement.
4. 'A small booke of Artephius called 'the greate Key of wisdome'; being a translation of his treatise entitled Clavis Majoris Sapientiae.
5. 'A coment or Explanation of Raymundus Lullius' Will, taken out of the Vatican Library'.

MS. Sloane 3732.
A collection of the chemical works by George Ripley, translated into English.
1. Liber de mercurio et lapide philosophorum.
2. Philorcium Alchymistarum.
3. The Clavis Aurea Portae.
4. The Pupilla Alchimae.
5. The Terra Terrae philosophiae.
6. Concordantia Raymundi Lullii et Guidonis philosophi Graeci.
7. The Viaticum seu varia practica.
8. The Accurtations et practicae Raymundinae.

MS. Sloane 3753.
1. Extracts from John de Monte-Snyders treatise, entitled, Metamorphosis Planetarum [In English]. ff.1-65.
Printed in German. Octavo, Amst. 1663.

MS. Sloane 3778.
1. 'Sendivogious explained': an exposition of the Tractatus duodecim de Lapide Philosophorum of Michael Sendivogius.
2. 'The First Alphabet' and 'The Second Alphabet' of Raymond Lully: of the signification of letters used in his Practica super lapide philosophico.
3. 'Raymond Lullius his Power of Riches'.
4. 'Accurtations of Raymond Lully'.
5. Extracts from Raymond Lully's Experimenta.
6. English translation of a portion of the Practica or second part of the Testamentum of Raymund Lully.
7. English translation of a portion of the Comendium animae transmutationis artis metallorum of Raymond Lully.
8. Extracts from the Theorica, or First Part of the Testamentum of Raymond Lully.
9. 'Clavicula, or a little Key of Raymond Lullye Majorican, which is also caled Apertorium (the opener) in which all that is required in the worke of Alchimie is plainly declared'.
10. 'The Praxis of Miriam the Prophetesse touching the chymecall art'.

MS. Add. 23195.
Cesare Ripa. Iconologia. [English translation.]

Sun Apr 21 17:03:27 1996
Subject: 0754 Outer World Work
From: Clinton R. Armitage
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 09:04:45 -0400

It might be rewarding to know more about the work that
Alchemists do in the OUTER world. When they put their
"shoulder to the wheel", whether in the laboratory of
burners, flasks, condensers, and extractors or outside
the laboratory with the human and other members of the
kingdoms of nature-- that which the Alchemists sow in
the OUTER world is reaped in the INNER world under the
universal laws set into motion by their actions.

In accord with this I offer the following experience.

Fifteen plus years ago, as a result of a decision to
close down mental hospitals a young man in his 20's
was walking the streets. He and a couple of other
"street people" were sitting and talking together in
my living room. He, like others with obvious mental
problems also exhibited unusual abilities. He asked
for a pen and paper, carefully scripted the following
from memory, then taped it on the wall:


Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember
what peace there may be in silence. As far as
possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all
persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and
listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they
too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive
persons, they are a vexation to the spirit. If you
compare yourself with others you may become vain and
bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser
persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievement as well
as your plans. Keep interested in your own career,
however humble: It is a real possession in the
fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business
affairs for the world is full of trickery. But let
this not blind you to what virtues there are; many
persons strive for high ideals and everywhere life is
full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign
affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the
face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as
perennial as the grass. Take kindly the council of the
years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden
misfortune. But do not distress yourself with
imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and
loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle
with yourself; you are a child of the universe, no
less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to
be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no
doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive
Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace with your
soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to
be happy.

Found in Old Saint Paul's Church- dated 1692

Wishing each and every one of you a successful journey
through life---as you labor in the vineyard.

Mon Apr 22 12:31:39 1996
Subject: 0755 black sun
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 17:28:40 +0100
From: Philip O'Neil

I wonder if anyone can enlighten me as to the symbolism of the black sun.
Also connections between alchemical symbolism and baudelaire. It seems he
used the image of the black sun (which poem I cannot remember) Is there any
record of baudelaire going to Prague.

Tue Apr 23 23:29:20 1996
Subject: 0756 20th century alchemists
From: Gilbert Arnold
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:38:14 -0400

Thanks for the nomination, Pat but if I go on any list you and your wife will
be there with me; I also vote for Michael, Russ, John, Art , Adam, Jack,
Jack's colleague who coinstructed the first year of RCU, Solazaref, Jean,
Albertus. Hans Nintzlel for his efforts at publishing and seminars. Pincaldi
passed away about 10 years ago and was one of Michael's teachers.

Tue Apr 23 23:29:31 1996
Subject: 0757 The hidden Sun- and Moonlight
From: John Reid
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 15:21:51 -0400 (EDT)

A method for testing the effect of celestial energy on terestrial matter
is known as capillary dynamic studies. This process was developed by
L.Kolosko from a suggestion by Rudolf Steiner. It is quite an interesting

It affords for the quantitative measurment of energies that are quite

I will prepare a short but concise description of the materials and
methodology to be followed in my next post.


Tue Apr 23 23:29:41 1996
Subject: 0758 Paralab
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 22 Apr 96 19:26:53 EDT

Dear members,

recently an alchemist has asked me in Germany, whether it still give the lab of
Frater Albertus in Salt Lake City. I could give no information about it. What
happened with all the devices of the Paralab after the death of Frater Albertus?
Does somebody know what has happened with the laboratory equipment? Is this
equipment in service today? If yes, where does it stand now?

Because this answer could be interesting also to other members, I have set it in
the forum.


Tue Apr 23 23:29:53 1996
Subject: 0759 List 3 of 20th Century alchemists
From: al4302
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 17:42:29 +0100

At 16:28 20/04/96 +0000, you wrote:
>There is always a problem in drawing up such a list of 20th century
>alchemists, and we can debate the methodology for months I suppose. However,
>what I am trying to do is to identify people who have become identified as
>continuing the alchemical tradition, and in this sense have become icons
>representing the continuation of alchemy in the 20th century.

If the above critria is to be used then all members of this Forum
should be included. Well perhaps we are not all icons but then nobody
is until they are no longer with us. However I think Adam should include
himself for in time I think he will be remembered for his efforts to
make Alchemy accessable to all.

Tue Apr 23 23:30:04 1996
Subject: 0760 Alchemy - Golden Dawn Statement
From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:19:45 -0500

>>From: George Randall Leake III
>>I'll get back to Talbot after a bit, but what about the Golden Dawn itself
>>and Alchemy? Would you say Crowley is too outside the mainstream of the GD
>>to study this particular aspect.
>From: Jfruther
>Do not forget, that Crowley was a student of chemistry in his younger days
>and was influenced of the bacillus known as "Science", so he alway denied the
>alchemical way.

*based on the few writings of his I've been able to absorb, notably in Book
Four, this seems like a silly statement. Crowley's philosophy and workings
are imbued with alchemical influence.

>As I was an initiated member of some A.'. A.'. lodge,

*perhaps there's a tradition neither I nor some others I've discussed this
note with have ever heard of, but it seems that the A.'.A.'. has always
been a one on one study-at-your-own pace organization. As far as I know
there are no formal lodges connected with the A.'.A.'. unless yr talking
about some Kenneth Grant offshoot or something.

I found
>it hurtfull to see a lack of any alchemical teaching. In my opinion Crowley
>made a big mistake to forget Alchemy in his teachings. On the other hand he
>was no man who would wait for some sesults too long. Even his Yoga
>expieriences are only superficial and he never had the trial of patience to
>do real alchemical work.

*this is a bit funny....

*going onto more serious matters, I wonder if someone can explain why
Crowley would not be included in a 20th century list.

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117

"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a
"Oh age! oh letters! It is a joy to be alive!...Woe to you, barbarians!"
-Ulrich von Hutten, 1518, Poet Laureate of the German Empire

Tue Apr 23 23:30:15 1996
Subject: 0761 Growing trees -Reply
From: al430
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 17:39:36 +0100

At 11:06 18/04/96 +0000, you wrote:
>From: Gilbert Arnold
>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 18:34:13 -0400

> al4302 wrote;

>"Dear Gilbert,
>Could you describe your tree for me?"
>The first signs were reddish flecks floating in the activated mercury in the
>flask held at the appropriate temperature. These came together at the
>same time that a beading process started on the inside of the 50 ml flask.
>The tree had a visible shape somewhat akin to crystallizing red lead sub
>acetates in rectified wine spirits. Not very tall and the flask could not be
>taken from the heat or moved without the tree falling apart. This may have
>been a function of our limited gold budget or my insistence on keeping the
>flask at a temperature no higher than one could tolerate to touch.

I must confess to a certain amount of hesitation in my reply, it seems
that it is very easy to offend people even with the lightest of comments.
What you describe reminds me very much of an experiment undertaken by my
class in prep school, although there were differences in the procedure we
are looking at a similar result which is the growing of crystals in a test
I realise that you aquired the process for an alchemical manuscript and that
should not be a suprise many things were discovered by these would be
But how can I show you that what you describe is not an alchemical Tree,
there is perhaps only one way. You see I have no need of your references for I have
a 'Tree' and I think I should reciprecate your good faith by describing it
for you.
The first thing you should understand is that it requires not artifical
heat, it grows quite happily on my kitchen window, the only heat it recives (as in nature)
is solar heat. In fact the only problem is not letting it get to cold.
This is true for the whole work but perhaps this requires a seperate discusion.
We are repeatedly told by the philosophers of old that we should preceed by
natures way, by this they mean that nothing should be forced and when you apply
flame you are trying to force a reaction.
So back to my kitchen window.
The whole thing is contained within a small flask as you might expect the
only criteria is that it must be able to be sealed. In the bottom is 4cm of garden soil
which should be slightly acid, ph 5 or 6. The soil is prepared with the ingrediants of Our Art which I am not at liberty disclose. Into this the 'seed' is planted in the same
way you would plant any seed it is then feed and when growth starts the flask is sealed.
My 'Tree' has been growing for one month at the present time it is 2cm high
an looks like a thin peice fuse wire. In the last few days it has started to develop
a white powdery substance on the tip. I can assure you that this is what was seen at
the house of Archibald Cockren. Further it is also very close to the way Our Mercury
is made and also the wet form a prime matter. From previous discusions I am
aware that you are still in need of these things and this confirms to me that you tree was not
So you see my friend I do not speak from Book Learning as most do, but from
personal experiance, in fact I rarely read alchemical books these days save
only to confirm a discovery. I have not completed the trianle for me the
ball game is just begining so you see I am not yet an alchemist, but a man of much misunderstanding and unless otherwise stated I do not quote from your books many of which were writen by men of even greater misunderstanding. Just beacuse they are old it does not make them TRUE.

I am sorry if this cause you or anyone else offence it is not intended if
this is the case I would urge those hurt not to take themselves so seriously. I
have no more to say on this subject and I will not be drawn into furter debate
you already have more than you will find in your Books.

Tue Apr 23 23:30:25 1996
Subject: 0762 black sun
From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 13:40:07 -0500

>Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 17:28:40 +0100
>From: Philip O'Neil
>I wonder if anyone can enlighten me as to the symbolism of the black sun.

*I wonder if there's an inherent connection to the concept of nigredo...

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117

Tue Apr 23 23:30:35 1996
Subject: 0763 black sun
From: Tito Cottignoli
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 20:13:45 GMT

>Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 17:28:40 +0100
>From: Philip O'Neil
>I wonder if anyone can enlighten me as to the symbolism of the black sun.
>Also connections between alchemical symbolism and baudelaire. It seems he
>used the image of the black sun (which poem I cannot remember) Is there any
>record of baudelaire going to Prague.

Dear Philip,
the black sun is a non-sense, like the round square. So, this symbol indicates
the devil.
No connections between alchemical symbolism and baudelaire.



Wed Apr 24 09:13:33 1996
Subject: 0764 Growing trees -Reply
From: Russ House
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 23:47:53 -0400

I do not intend for my response to be offensive, but I have some curiosity
about the topic of secrecy in Alchemy. We have on this topic the response
of al430 to Gilbert:

>From: al430
>Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 17:39:36 +0100
> The soil is prepared with the
>ingrediants of Our Art which I am not at liberty disclose.

I would not ask one to disclose what they are not free to disclose. I
understand that all information cannot be treated equally, and that there
are ethical reasons why one may not publish every thing that they know. My
curiosity, in this case, is what is the reason that it may not be disclosed.

For example: The information can lead one into a dangerous way because of
dangerous chemicals or because of the need for special handling for safety
reasons; because one has received the information under oath; because the
experiment is doubtful, and to disclose it may mislead people; because there
is a tradition of secrecy around alchemy; because one believes that the
manner of the revelation was such that the information is personal and not
for disclosure.

I ask this question, not to provoke the respondent into saying what they may
not, but because I believe that the need for secrecy can be on either a
legitimate basis or on a mistaken one.... which is which is for the
individual to determine by their own sense of ethics.

The things that I would not say 5 or 6 years ago I now say freely. I came to
this conclusion after some soul searching. My teachers were all, up to a
point, quite secretive in nature. This would include Albertus, in fact, who
was reluctant to disclose the acetate distillation processes, for example.
They were given, but not until numerous years of previous instruction.

It is a personal matter, as I say, but today I am more afraid that I may be
in error by not giving useful information to those who are working along
these lines, than I am afraid that I will offend some ethics of the Art by
not maintaining strict privacy. In fact, I regret to discover that all I
know is infinitely small in comparison to what I have yet to learn. In some
way, I am certain that I my cup is filled many times over when I take the
time to empty it for the benefit of others.

This whole subject has puzzled me, since I have had to wrestle with it. All
in all, I think that the open communication of research has little danger
with the exception of the risk of accidentally misleading people though
mistaken ideas, and in the case where there is some danger because of the
substances involved in the specific work. In this latter case, I echo the
concerns of Gilbert who has admonished that taking metallic Alchemical
substances internally is dangerous. I think that we may have, in this
century, the case of some people who were poisoned by 'red stones' of

I look forward to reading some responses on the topic.


Russ House
Courses in Alchemy * Qabala * Esoteric Studies
The Philosophers of Nature email:
"Thou, Nature, art my Goddess. To thy law my services are bound."
-- Shakespeare (King Lear)

Wed Apr 24 09:13:46 1996
Subject: 0765 Paralab
From: Russ House
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 23:23:13 -0400

Dear Beat,

I was in the laboratories of Albertus in Utah this past Summer, to consider
removing the equipment. This was supervised by one of the daughters, who
lives in Germany.

After making a careful inventory on video tape and afterwards spending some
time in consideration, I decided that it was an expensive matter to dispose
of the vast amount of chemicals, many of which were in damaged containers.
The facilities have not been used for 12 years. Some key pieces of
equipment were removed some years back, such as a Rotovapor and other nice
things. In that the papers of the organization were not part of the deal,
the situation was more frustrating. Given that I would have to dispose of
the chemicals or store them, and clean the premises, the time involved, as
well as the cost of packing, transportation and storage were excessive.

The business of Paralab no longer exists. I have no idea what happened to
the equipment and facilities there. There are, in fact, still stockholders
who do not know the disposition of the business.

I think, all things considered, that there are a few small treasures, amidst
a big mess. It is unfortunate, perhaps, that there was not a successor
named to continue the work in this school, in that the facilities could have
been maintained and progress continued.

This was a good school, which provided a start for many people in the US and
abroad. The era has passed. I think that Jack Glass and Alec Gathercole
(of Paracelsus University) are in essence, the remaining teachers from this
I worked extensively with Jack from 1988 through 1993, and believe that he
is a generous teacher. I know that Alec is likewise a man of good heart and
while we have not worked together, I believe that he has much to offer from
this tradition.

The Philosophers of Nature owes something to Albertus in that Jean Dubuis
first realized the connections between the Qabala and Alchemy after some
conversations with Albertus. Further, the Spagyrics courses have some
processes which originated in the research of Albertus and his students.
This tradition was also an influence In the work of the Archaeus of water,
the alkahest of sulphur and some other experiments.

I hope, Beat, that this has been helpful to your friend in Germany, and to
other forum members.


Russ House

Wed Apr 24 09:13:54 1996
Subject: 0766 black sun
From: Jfruther
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 01:35:33 -0400

The Dog-Star Sirius is also mentioned as the Black Sun, the sun behind our
sun. For further information quote the works of Kenneth Grant (The Magical
Revival for example. Published by Skoob Books, London).

So Titus is wrong, it is NOT non-sense!



Wed Apr 24 09:29:34 1996
Subject: 0767 black sun
The black sun is "non-sense" to our logical analytical mode of thinking. However it was just this sort of nonsense, the paradoxical conjunction of the opposites, in which the alchemists delighted, and used to to express ideas that did not fit into a linear logic. We can readily find an example in plate 19 of the Splendor solis series which shows a black sun rising over a landscape.

Adam McLean

Wed Apr 24 09:34:49 1996
Subject: 0768 Book search - Mutus liber speaks
A correspondent, Greg Burda, has asked me to locate a copy of a book or commentary on the Mutus liber. He writes:-

>The Mutus Liber Speaks or the Mute Book Speaks by
>Oscar Uzcategui is a book of 15 alchemical plates that describe the sexual
>alchemy. It is of European origin, it may have been written in Latin but I'm
>sure there is an English translation. The plates show and the book speaks of
>the of the mixing of the Sulphur (erotic force) and the Mercury (seminal
>energy) in the oven of our sexual organs. It also talks of the philosophers
>stone, The Salt of Sapientia Universalis (the spirit) and the Alchemical
>chimney (the spinal column). It is a great book of true spirituality and the
>true workings of the male and female energy. This is all I know. I thank you
>for any help on this matter.

Does anyone know this book?

Adam McLean

Wed Apr 24 20:18:25 1996
Subject: 0769 Growing trees -Reply
From: calhhh
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 11:13:56 -0400

al430, Gilbert, Russ and all :

I must confess that I have grown many trees, however none of them
alchemical, so I apologize for my ignorance. But after saying that,
I would like just to add a few words, that perhaps could have
something to do with the spiritual sap that SURELY is the nutrient
of any alchemical tree ... LOVE AND TOLERANCE

No, this is not the result of and improvised surge of poetry in my
heart. It just so happens that one of the things that I have truly
learned in my alchemical path is that this road is so beautifully
complex, that perhaps no one has achieved completely ALL THE TRUTH.
Therefore and considering only those truly sincere alchemy students,
I will comment that all of us should become tolerant and respectful
to other alchemists ideas, and even if they are misconceptions,
since we must always recognize in a fellow alchemist, a true seeker
of wisdom in his own path of evolution.

Why do any really want to study alchemy, being an enormously time
consuming art ??? My conclusion is very simple, to hopefully someday,
by the Grace of God, being of SERVICE TO OTHERS, but then truly
knowing the laws of Nature. so being able to help with a true
conscience of things.

There is no sense in an Alchemist feeling that HE is the one that
holds the KEY to Understanding .... EVEN IF IS TRUE. The question
always should be HOW CAN WE HELP ? and not, LOOK AT HOW MUCH WE
KNOW. A very old chinese proverb, which must of us, specially
myself, not often comply to, says : "It is better to be silent
a thousand years, than to say a word that would not be of any
service to others". I respect anyone who says what is in their
heart, so I am in no way criticizing what has been said while
discussing ALCHEMICAL TREES, it is just that I feel that there
could be more tolerant manners of speach, than to argue who
is or not a BOOK ALCHEMIST .... Or being sarcastic about the
other's result ... Besides, were not all of us Book Alchemist
when we started ? ? ? It just takes a little looking back ...

Knowledge should not be search for, as an ego impeller, but as
something to be thankful for, to be treasured, and at the right
time to be shared ...

Having said this, which is definetily not intended as an ofense
to anyone, I must say that I have benefited tremendously by the
posts given both by al430, Gilbert and many others, so I hope they
keep on posting.

My last suggestion is that none of us should feel offended
so easily. Let us all act as true alchemist, and when we do not
feel identified with an specific response, let us do as we shall
in the GREAT WORK ..... Harvest, focus on and enjoy the Azoth and
just discard what might not be useful.



Wed Apr 24 20:18:34 1996
Subject: 0770 black sun
From: douwe
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:02:57 GMT

On Mon, 22 Apr 1996 12:33:48 +0000, you wrote:

>Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 17:28:40 +0100
>From: Philip O'Neil
>I wonder if anyone can enlighten me as to the symbolism of the black sun.
>Also connections between alchemical symbolism and baudelaire. It seems he
>used the image of the black sun (which poem I cannot remember) Is there any
>record of baudelaire going to Prague.

The black Sun is Nigredo, because it is void of light, but as you may
Void of light makes the substance look for an inner light, or better
void of light disables the substance to see the material light, so
that it will find the inner/hidden light which is Always immanently
present (this also holds true on personal bases), this can be easily
recognized as a black Sun.
This is easily compared with the darkroomeffect, although in our case
we are talking on spiritual and alchemical-material grounds.

As a symbol this one is as great as the one in 'Mark 15:33', where
there are 3 hours of darkness, from 6 (void and centerless matter) to
9- (liberated human being)... (they are also seperated by 3 hours,
sulpher mercury and salt, or soul, spirit and body)...
For a deeper understanding it might also be good to reflect upon
Genesis 1:1-3
This should be clear to most.


Thu Apr 25 08:19:07 1996
Subject: 0771 black sun
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 00:09:22 -0400

Hi ,
In a psychological sense the black sun refers to the turning inward of
consciousness ( the descent into Hades ) to recover and transform psychic energy that has been trapped into psychological ( or spiritual ) conflicts . This is depression .
Depression is a transformative crisis . It is the first step of the Opus : the Nigredo .


Georges Robitaille

Thu Apr 25 08:19:18 1996
Subject: 0772 Growing trees -Reply
From: douwe
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:10:37 GMT

On Wed, 24 Apr 1996 09:40:54 +0000, you wrote:

>From: Russ House
>> The soil is prepared with the
>>ingrediants of Our Art which I am not at liberty disclose.
>I would not ask one to disclose what they are not free to disclose. I
>understand that all information cannot be treated equally, and that there
>are ethical reasons why one may not publish every thing that they know. My
>curiosity, in this case, is what is the reason that it may not be disclosed.

Maybe it is good to remind everyone of the Rosicrucian sayings which
have been published on the frontpiece of the, 'Alchemical wedding of
Christian Rosencreutz'.

'Arcana publicata vilescunt; et gratiam prophanata amittunt.'
(secrets made public lose their value, and thanks to profanation they
are (totally) given up)

'Ergo: ne margarit as obyce porcis, seu asino substerne rosas.'
(That is why: do not throw pearls for the swines, nor roses for the

Both Latin and English aren't my own languages, so it loses a bit in
the translation I am afraid...

There are many reasons for not to be too open about the Alchemy and
some other sciences.

Indeed is all which you bring to the open degraded, and I do not want
to be rude, but what you said about being more secret 5 years ago
might mean that the secrets became of lesser value for you, because
you became too used to the ideas.
Maybe it is good to have look at them and see if they still do the
same thing for you.

Apart from this... it is better to hint someone into the right
direction because he/she then will find it them self,
All that I tell you is of lesser impact then all that you found out
yourself, and in Alchemy there are things which you would find with
more difficulty if they where told to you, because you would have the
impression that you would know, while you would miss the essence of
the matter.
It would be like me telling you what kind of medicinal properties a
plant or a metal has, while I feel or see it by first hand... to me
there would be more to it then to you, plus that it might discourage
you to learn to see this for your self.
(I hope you see what I mean).

Further telling someone blind what a pine-tree looks like will never
give him the impression of the tree in the way it looks like to you.

There are many more reasons why it is appropriate to be silent about
some essential parts of Alchemy.
But then again, what I half tell, someone else might tell for the
rest, while we are both silent on the areas which we find most

I personally have found out that it is better for someone elses
advancement to be totally silent about anything which is beyond them,
it is more enlightening to both to talk about the things that are on
the summit of the knowledge of the one who knows less.
Like this More can be told then in any other way.
It might be obvious that this kind of thing is impossible in public.
or there has to be an positive adoration of the speaker by the crowd.

kind regards,

Thu Apr 25 08:19:27 1996
Subject: 0773 Book search - Mutus liber speaks
From: John Obrien
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 15:28:54 -0500 (CDT)

> A correspondent, Greg Burda, has asked me to locate a copy of a book or
> commentary on the Mutus liber. He writes:-
> >The Mutus Liber Speaks or the Mute Book Speaks by
> >Oscar Uzcategui is a book of 15 alchemical plates that describe the sexual

Yes; I've seen it at the Linda Hall Library in Kansas City. In fact, I
Xeroxed it for myself.

telnet to Leonardo
(login: leonardo password: lhl )
#Linda Hall Library

John D. O'Brien

Thu Apr 25 08:19:37 1996
Subject: 0774 The Law of Reciprocal Action
From: Steven Pappas
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:47:29 -0400

In a related subject I recommend the Book _The Idea of Historical Recurrence
in Western Thought_, G.W.Trompf, Un of California Press, 1979.

Thu Apr 25 08:19:46 1996
Subject: 0775 Cinnabar, Caro's way
From: Franco Carrai
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 00:13:06 +0200

Dear Lapis,

My experiences in laboratory regarding Caro's Way are, at the present time,
are too limited for a personal
definitive opinion about the value of this method.
I never met Caro; I know people who met him and worked in this Way. Some of
them are yet working on it and have obtained what seems to them a partial
success, some decided not to continue....

Regarding the experiments of your friends, it's evident, by your mention of
the high cost of the raw materials, that they decided not to follow the original suggestion of Caro but to purchase the native minerals.
Caro pointed out in his books that the philosophical extraction of the
Sulphur and the Mercury to use in the reconstitution of the mine is one of
the most difficult task in his Way.
I know that many associates of Collegiale Al-Kimia turned to buy the native
minerals with great expenses, but, also in this case, the final results
were, as far as I know, unsuccessful....
John Reid of course is right, as Thierry Ducreux, mentioning the
multiplication: on this matter, and especially on the changings about the
Salt-Fire to be used in these stages, Caro was much less open to give
suggestions than he was regarding all the operations until the first red
powder, the False Prophet reminded by Thierry. If you are aware of the
chemical method of preparation of the Salt-Fire required in this Way, you
would find that it fits quite well with the traditional images of the wooden
athanor and of the spring coming from the hollow oak.

The informations about the first operations were quite easily obtained until
few years ago in certain esoterical organizations and i am available to
transmit them personally to any serious searcher.
But could any Way be learned only from external sources ?
I have seen people working only on the ground of technical instructions and
believing to be able to get the Phiosophical Stone by smart intelligence and
skilled hands. I rather believe in the LIGHT which, writes Pancaldi, open
any Books.
The Light which awakes the internal Eye and gives him the strength to see
the Goddess Nature in Her nakedness...

Best regards


Thu Apr 25 17:42:20 1996
Subject: 0776 Dew and alchemy: call for information
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:58:33 +0000
From: JoelTetard

Call for information on dew properties

Early in May, I'll go in Auvergne (highlands in the centre of France)
to collect some dew. This liquid is very important in the Path of
antimony (see Mutus Liber) and I will much appreciate to receive
information concerning chemical analysis, chemical and physical
properties (optical mainly) and alchemical treatments (distillation)
of dew.

As far I know, dew would contain two important agents :
- peroxyde hydrogene (H202)
- Ammonium nitrate (Nh4+ NO3-)

I'll would be interested to have rates for "european" dew. Analysis
results would be different for american dew (see acid rains problems).

Many thanks in advance for your kind help.

Joel Tetard. snail address : 20 rue de la Liberation, F92500
Rueil-Malmaison. Tel & Fax : +33 (01) 47 49 53 09.

Thu Apr 25 17:42:31 1996
Subject: 0777 Alchemy in France : an overview
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:56:42 +0000
From: Joel Tetard

Hello from France.

Two weeks ago I subscribed to the Alchemy forum and I proposed to Mr. A
McLean a short overview of Alchemy practices in France.

This is the result of a (very) quick research on this matter.
Obviously it is not complete and the greatest part of this informtion
would be perhaps known by most of you.

Please, excuse me for this and don't laugh at me for my bad English!!!


This overview is based mainly on "Fulcanelli Devoille" written by
Genevieve Dubois (Dervy Publication, 91 bd Saint Germain, 75006 Paris)
which is a fairly good introduction to this matter.

During the greatest part of XIXth century until to the First WW there
was in France a great interest in alchemy as for Esoterism in
general. A significant number of writers (Victor Hugo, Balzac, for
instance), poets (Verlaine), scientists (Chevreul) coming from all
level of society, confessed to have a strong interest in this

Although Alchemy is more an individual involvement rather than a
collective practice several groups dedicated to this Art were

Among the most known of these groups we have to note the "Societe
Alchimique de France" , "l'Ecole hermetique" and the "Groupe
Independant d'Etudes Esoteriques".

We have to point out that some of these researches were not seen by
their promoters as traditional or "pure" alchemical works.

For instance Jollivet Castelot, who lead the Societe Alchimique de
France, spoke only of "hyperchemy" which is a way to obtain gold by
chemical ways. This is linked to the great number of alchemical
recipes named "petits particuliers" (see for instance Vigenere's
formula based on the over-melting of lead).

Most of these alchemical groups were linked to neo-rosicrucian
brotherhoods. Other groups would exists but we have no information
about them.

The First World War stopped the activities of these groups and ended
the first revival of Alchemy in France.

In 1926, "Les Mysteres des cathedrales", and "Les Demeures
Philosophales" in 1930, both signed by Fulcanelli, were published in
the complete indifference. The two books (in fact written by Canseliet
who used the notes of his Master) were inscribed to a mysterious
"Heliopolis Brotherhood" ("Fraternite d'Heliopolis").

In the main time, Schwaller, mainly known for his works on Egyptology,
gathered a little group of friends (named "les Veilleurs", i.e. "the
Watchers") and founded a kind of community dedicated to the Alchemy
near Saint-Moritz. This group stopped its activities in 1927 when
Schwaller married and moved in the south of France.

According to G. Dubois, Schwaller worked on alchemy with Jean-Julien
Champagne (a painter who was said to be the actual Fulcanelli. He did
the drawings of the two published books).

In 1937 Jacques Bergier met an alchemist who was said to be Fulcanelli
(born in 1839 according to E. Canseliet...). This man warned Bergier
against the researches on the atom which could be a danger for the

In the maintime, Eugene Canseliet began to write several papers and
was more and more known as to be the only "official" Fulcanelli's
disciple. Some of these papers were collected and published in
"Alchimie" (1964).

In 1960 J. Bergier and Louis Pauwels wrote "le Matin des Magiciens"
which took an important place in the second revival of alchemy in
France. Bergier and Pauwels' book contributed to diffuse widely the
name of Fulcanelli.

Fulcanelli's "Mysteres des Cathedrales" was reprinted in 1964 with an
unexpected success.

"Les Demeures Philosophales" were reprinted in 1965, and were followed
by new books by Canseliet : "Mutus Liber" (1967), "L'Alchimie
expliquee sur ses textes classiques" which is his philosophical will
(1971), "trois anciens traites d'alchimie" (1971), and "Alchimie"
(reprinted in 1978).

Canseliet's works were the starting point for new studies and a growing
number of books or papers on this subject . For instance, Atorene
published "le Laboratoire Alchimique" (Guy Tredaniel, Editions de la
Maisnie) in 1980 which is an important source concerning alchemy in

Up to his death in 1982, M. Eugene Canseliet was a guide for a new
generation interested by alchemy: some of his students will take an
important place in the French Alchemy during the 80's (for instance :
J. Laplace, Solazaref, P. Riviere, Atorene...).


Thanks to Canseliet, many people are now interested in Alchemy .

According to booksellers, providers in scientific equipment and some
other sources (dealers in crude ores for instance), practical Alchemy
would concern more or less 1000 persons in France. Some of French
"amoureux de Science" (i.e. lovers of alchemy) are said to working in
this Art on a "full-time" base and very a few would succeed the Eagles
of the Second Work, having the "Remora"...

The following groups are (or were) dedicated to the deferent sides of
alchemy : theory, speculation practice and spituality.

Please note I am not involved in any of these groups. I was just in
touch with some people who are (or where) linked to some of them. Due
to this fact, I am not able to provide details on the structure of
these groups. For this reason too I prefer to give only facts but no
subjective or personal comments on them.


Philosophes de la Nature was a non profit organisation created by Jean
Dubuis in 1979. They provided courses on Esoterism, Qabala, Alchemy
and Traditional medicine.

The teaching of alchemy was mainly based on Frater Albertus (Richard
Riedel) and J Dubuis's works and is split in two parts : spagyry (i.e.
vegetal alchemy, mainly) and mineral alchemy.

The organisation organised meetings and practical works sessions and
provided lab wares and herbs at low prices to their members.

Philosophes de la Nature were mainly targeted at Spagyry and to the
"Path of amalgams" or Flamel's Path.

Due to internal troubles, the organisation suspended its activities in

Their last known address is 12 avenue Olivier, F92250 La

2.2. - FILIATION SOLAZAREF (or "Les Amoureux de Science").

Solazaref was previously known under the "artist-name" of Pierre
d'Ouche (i.e. "Stone from Ouche" an ancient mine of antimony ore).
Previously working as a Physicist, he was in close relationship with
E. Canseliet.

Early in the 80's he choose to be a potter, providing alchemical
materials such as retorts and crucibles.

About fifty persons decided to follow Solazaref and to live near Riom,
in the centre of France.
"Introitus ad Philosphorum Lapidem" published soon after the death of
Eugene Canseliet was dedicated to the Dry Path of antimony as taught by
Fulcanelli's disciple.

Other books followed concerning mainly the Breve Path which is said to
be in relation with Germanic and Celtic traditions. For their works in
this Path Solazaref companions use "strong" energies as solar heat,
explosives or lightning...

Unless their first works were dedicated to the "Dry Path of Stibnite",
the main known path in alchemy since Fulcanelli and Canseliet's
works, they claimed this path would be a snare build by freemasons and

Due to their political position close to Lepen's Front National and
their attacks against some people writing in alchemy (Canseliet's
daughter, Caro's Church, and so on), they were strongly criticised.

Solazaref's filiation grew quickly (about 500 persons were more or
less in contact with them in Europe) and sub-groups were created in
Belgium, Italy and USA.

However, Solazaref's group seems to have split last year, some people
left the organisation and created a new one. This later group
seems to be targeted to the Northern Tradition and to have no relation
with alchemy.

The last known address of Solazaref's Filiation was : c/o Michel
Chalon, La Tour Serviat, F63410 Manzat.

2.3. - F.A.R.C. or CARO'S CHURCH:

During the 60's, the Temple Initiatique Alchimique d'Ajunta was
founded by Jean Deleuvre (known also as Kamala-Jnan). A book was
published with photographs showing the main steps of the alchemical
work (Cinabre Path).

After Deleuvre's death, Roger Caro became the new leader of this group
and changed the name of Temple of Ajunta into Freres Aines de la rose
Croix. In 1973, the organisation decided to be "asleep" for 25 years
in order to match with rosicrucian traditions (?).

In fact, in 1972, Etienne Roger Caro created a new organisation : the
Eglise Universelle de la Nouvelle Alliance. This later organisation
seems to have stopped alchemical practices since the death of Mr. Caro.

It is possible write to Daniel Caro (son of Roger Caro) and to order
some books published by Ajunta Temple. The address is :
Daniel Caro
Batiment D. Chambrun
270 avenue de Pessicart
06100 Nice


This group is more dedicated to Spagyry following Paracelsus' books,
rather than Alchemy, even if some of the group worked with antimony
ore following the teaching of Fulcanelli and M. Canseliet.

Patrick Riviere is the leader of the group. According to his books
("Alchimie et Spagyry", Spagy-Nature would be linked to CHR+CHM which
seems to be a traditional neo-rosicrusian organisation.

Patrick Riviere published some books about the theory and practice of
alchemy and spagyry which could be an introduction to the actual

Their last known address is : Spagy-Nature, c/o P. Riviere, Les
Soubadisses, F82100 Granvillar.


Other groups could exist certainly but I have no information on them.
In fact, most of French alchemists work alone now or have friendly but
informal relationships with their "colleagues".

"La Tourbe des Philosophes", a non profit and non periodic (indeed!)
publication, is an important but weak link between all friends of
Alchemy in France.

Due to the lack of papers, this review is now in real danger of

ON NEW BOOKS TO THIS REVIEW !!! (even in English!)

You'll find this interesting review and send your papers (even in
English) at "La Table d'Emeraude" (see annexe for address).


Most of the books given above would be available from the two
following booksellers :

La Table d'Emeraude
21 rue de la Huchette,
F75005 Paris.
Tel : +33 (01) 43 54 90 96.
Fax : +33 (01) 40 51 02 67)

Librairie du Graal
15 rue J-J Rousseau
75001 Paris
Tel : +33 (01) 42 36 07 60
Fax : +33 (01) 42 36 45 58
e-mail :

Librairie du Graal is another good bookseller which provides books
related to alchemy. They published a quarterly catalogue, available by
e-mail, with a list of ancient books concerning alchemy and spagyry
and other matters (astrology, kabbala, etc.)

Fri Apr 26 17:23:09 1996
Subject: 0778 Pancaldi
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 25 Apr 96 18:07:05 EDT

Russ wrote (748): >We have the advantage that at least Junius and Dubuis are
presently using a relatively dense vehicle. I am not in contact with Pancaldi,
and am not sure in his case.<

The influence of Pancaldi, who was an industrious pupil of Frater Albertus, is
not to be underestimated. I knew him personally. Unfortunately Pancaldi has died
a few years ago. He was in search of the philosopher's stone. But he could not
successfully close his works.


Fri Apr 26 17:26:56 1996
Subject: 0779 black sun
From: Anthony J McCormick
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 23:29:49 +1000 (EST)

"at first, however,the sun will lose its splendour, be extinguished ,and become black ,as a result of the putrefaction and dissolution (resolutio) which it undergoes in this water"

in the same most enlightening book titus burckhardt wrote on alchemy,
a plate entitled "the struggle of the two primordial powers" this almost
black and white plate depicts two figures male and female, sun and moon
representations, both with black heads. On the sheild of the solar power the moon is portrayed,and on that of the lunar power the sun. the second paragraph is my perception proposing a possibility to me, perhaps enlightening to you

kind regards


Fri Apr 26 17:23:31 1996
Subject: 0780 black sun
From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 11:30 NZST

I don't know if I would go along with the Black Sun being the Nigredo. I
could be wrong, but, The sun is the inner spark or essence and the show
over it relates not to the external appearance but possibly you could equate
it digestion where the gross elements eventually become much lighter as the
essence is removed and to a certain extent a separation occurs. The
separation of the gross is the black sun who draws out or is the negative
quality (or leaves behind it whichever way you want to read it)- the black
sun. from a modern psychological alchemical concept one could equate it
with depression (as suggested on this forum) but I am an alchemist and not
a psychologist, and tend to see things from a different perspective.
From the perspective of the tarot look at the Golden dawn version of the
Death card, and the Sun in the top left hand corner -which is a type of
black sun. The whole concept is one of release from the material or gross.
The spirit and matter are two separate components. the eagle being the link
between them -evaporation, and the snake being the agent of transmutation
in a spiralling upward manner . The scythe being held by the skelaton being
the cutting agent, while the bones are the dross or material that is ina
state of decay or decomposition. The body parts on the ground show the
cutting agent has access to all prases of the dross or physical.

Fri Apr 26 17:27:36 1996
Subject: 0781 black sun
The figure referred to by Stephen in message 0779 is from the 'Aurora consurgens' series.

Adam McLean

Mon Apr 29 18:53:06 1996
Subject: 0782 Secrecy is not meant to be!
From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 10:32:13 GMT

Dear Douwe,

I don't think you'll find "swines" and "donkeys" here on this forum, so
your pearls and roses will be quite safe here, and they will fall into
worthy hands.

Only people who concentrate on making "mundane" gold, would want to hide
their methods.

The Alchemical Process reveals (as far as the microcosmos is concerned -
which is MAN) what God has in mind for mankind --- namely the process of
REBIRTH IN SPIRIT out of the world of matter (Auferstehung des Geistes). In
fact, the Alchemical process shows THE WAY back to GOD, OUR FATHER!!! Why
would HE want to hide THE WAY ? TRUE REVELATION AND NO SECRECY IS MEANT TO BE !!! God wants us to know exactly what is in front of us, so that we can
actually tread on and follow the path.

The Path is "HIDDEN"(and that happens quite automatically without our
interfering, BECAUSE OF SELF INFLICTION) only from the SUPERFICIALS, who
cannot conclude and finish a line of thought, from the INTELLECTUALS, who
bind themselves to matter through their purely materialistic persuits, from
the LAZY, who don't care about their and other people's lives, from the
GLUTTONOUS, who's life content is only food,... do I need to continue?
People restrict themselves, THEY decide for themselves --- not God!
The Path is there for everyone who chooses to walk on it, and for them THERE

Let me finish by saying: THE FIRST WILL BE THE LAST.
But in the sense that those who have developed "first" the consciousness as
can be, will turn back and come again to help their fellowmen in their
struggle, thus with the love in their heart they will be the "last".

Mon Apr 29 18:53:16 1996
Subject: Multiple messages
I am sorry about the series of multiple postings of messages to the forum over the past few days. This was a result of the reconfiguring of to a new Internet service provider, and it being assigned a new IP number. Buzz Lange, the operator of, experienced some difficulties during the complex switchover, in which he tried to keep the old system running while simultaneously setting up the new configuration. This wasin order that he could maintain continuity of service. This juggling act led to the mail storm, which he described, in a posting to me, as a vortex which he was powerless to control.

After the short period of a few years, we all take the Internet so much for granted, that it takes a situation like this for us to realise the complexity of computer programming that underpins it, and consequently the many things that can go wrong.

With my best wishes,

Adam McLean

Mon Apr 29 19:06:40 1996
Subject: 0783 black sun
From: John Obrien
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 21:13:13 -0500 (CDT)

> "at first, however,the sun will lose its splendour, be extinguished ,and
> become black ,as a result of the putrefaction and dissolution (resolutio)
> which it undergoes in this water" > stephen

Interesting that when a sun collapses it becomes a 'Black Hole', with
immense power condensed into a relatively small space.

Mon Apr 29 19:06:49 1996
Subject: 0784 black sun
From: Tito Cottignoli

>The black sun is "non-sense" to our logical analytical mode of thinking.
>However it was just this sort of nonsense, the paradoxical conjunction of
>the opposites, in which the alchemists delighted, and used to to express
>ideas that did not fit into a linear logic. We can readily find an example
>in plate 19 of the Splendor solis series which shows a black sun rising over
>a landscape.
>Adam McLean

Dear Adam.
if I was a fan of formalistic logic I'd never have
written that the contradiction coincides with the
devil. I only wished to give an instinctive hint
to Philip, aware about the huge work he is going to
face. The Alchemists said there are two ways, the
short and easy one and the long and hard one.
Well, I only adviced him to choose the former.


Tue Apr 30 09:30:21 1996
Subject: 0785 20th Century alchemists
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 29 Apr 96 12:52:49 EDT

Pat proposed to structure the list of the alchemists of the 20th century. I can
only support this suggestion:

We produce a list, which is subdivided in five partial lists:

List 1 includes alchemists of the 20th century, who have died by now but have
reached a certain degree of fame by own publications.

List 2 includes alchemists alike list 1, but who still are alive.

List 3 includes alchemists, who have not become known by publications, but
nevertheless have gained an importance. The alchemists of this list likewise
have died. However it could be helpful for others, if such forum members, who
had contact to such alchemists, could write a kind of a short biography about
them to the forum.

List 4 includes alchemists alike list 3, who still are alive.

List 5 contains active alchemists in the forum, whereby I mean under active
pursuing practical alchemy in the lab. I think it good, if interested parties
for this list would personally write short contributions. Goal: They should
describe their current scope of work, so that new members of the forum using
list 5 will more quickly find contacts.

Of course it is up to each individual, whether he wants to be included in list 5
or not.


Wed May 01 09:25:01 1996
Subject: 0786 First Operations
From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:18:29 GMT

Dear Manfred,

You write: >>>The informations about the first operations were quite easily
obtained until few years ago in certain esoterical organizations and I am
available to transmit them personally to any serious searcher.<<<

I am such a searcher. Would you be so kind to transmit them to me?

If you are Manfred, who wrote the book: "The Practical Handbook of Plant
Alchemy" which I recently bought and cannot put aside, because it is so
interesting, I thank you for writing it. It seems that long last I hold in
my hand a "real" guide to the practical process of Alchemy.

There is one other thing I like to know.
Eug. Philaletha in "Euphrates" writes: >>>Whosoever wants to obtain a
benefit in the Art must learn to know the elements and their effects before
they seek the Tincture of the Metals, observe their effects and reproduce
them"<<< Can you help me in that respect as well?

Or any other person from the forum, please help me with the above teachings!
I don't want to join a secret society, I WANT TO STAY FREE, but I still need
the help of a friend.

I am your grateful recipient.

Petra Christiane Gottlieb

Wed May 01 09:25:11 1996
Subject: 0787 The hidden Sun- and Moonlight
From: RawnClark
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 00:12:18 -0400

In a message dated 96-04-23 19:17:41 EDT, you write:

>A method for testing the effect of celestial energy on terestrial matter
>is known as capillary dynamic studies. This process was developed by
>L.Kolosko from a suggestion by Rudolf Steiner. It is quite an interesting
>It affords for the quantitative measurment of energies that are quite
>I will prepare a short but concise description of the materials and
>methodology to be followed in my next post.

Dear John,

I have been out of town for the past week, and with all the Forum/internet
problems lately, I am wondering if I missed your follow-up post? Or is my
eagerness for your thoughts getting ahead of your time to write? ;-)

Best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
30 Apr 96

Wed May 01 16:02:36 1996
Subject: 0788 Regarding Secrecy
From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:59:53 GMT


I wish to contribute a response to Russ House's comment regarding secrecy in
Alchemy. There appears to be a consensus on the forum that more clarity in
expression is justified carte blank.
Those of us who had instructions in depth from Frater Albertus in the Sacred
Teachings were ever so often told that there are no secrets. The only
obstruction to evolution is one's ignorance of the laws of nature whereby we
assume from opinion what is meant by the writings left for us. We were told
every instruction is either an allegory, an aphorism or an attempt to allude
to some alternate matter, that the ingredients mentioned by name have a
title which relates to dual entities and is most likely not the object of
common everyday familiarity, and that there are deliberate omissions in the
recipes. To justify this shrewd method of communication the crude analogy
used was "do not caste pearls before swine".
As it was then, so it is today, but usually less crudely stated. Today's
society is no less subject to avaricious tendencies where crime is freely
committed and dastardly acts perpetrated for far less valuable substances
than alchemical elixirs.
The ancient sages hid their identity under pseudonyms, concealed their
processes by nomenclature, and shielded their person with common attire and
respectability. So many have said "one can speak openly on the subject of
the Philosopher's Stone without fear" while the listener may immediately
confuse the instruction by the figments of imaginations he impinges on the
recipe if not previously become aware of the Art.
Those who knew the Frater will have recognised how impossible it was to ask
a question he did not wish to respond to. He would change the subject, give
some instruction or excuse himself from the company if it was inappropriate
and yet answered it in some other simple comment at another time without
the question ever being verbalised. He only ever lectured by oral tradition.
He was so adapt at reading thoughts, foreseeing the future as far ahead as
the past was behind, he could answer a question without resort to any
reference material as is customary in most academic circles. He could touch
the mind of each individual during his "thought for the day" morning
sessions for which, as he confided, he knew not what was to be said as he
walked over from the house. Some who knew him well have written that he knew
these dialogues off by heart. That was not the case. He waited to be given
the message as sages do.
So was the case with the sages of historical notary. They left a wealth of
knowledge for those who followed, the subtlety of which is always concealed
by jargon, for they knew the nature of man and the damage that could be done
to society if this sacred work should fall into the hands of unscrupulous
people. One becomes cautious when someone writes or states they know but
cannot tell. The tradition of humility, silence and obscurity is usually the
hallmark of distinctive individuals. This distinctive perspicacious
mentality is developed by special training in esoteric schools whereby a
much wider and far more important scope of methodology is developed than
the chemical manipulations of substances, through which sages are made
rather than born.
It is my understanding that the essential ingredient will only be revealed
to man by divine revelation when judged to be good and ready having been
sorely tested by the torch of purification and proven steadfast in all
areas of respectability. No man has yet been adjudged as reliable enough to
be entrusted in this role as a deputy for Divine Grace except in very
exceptional circumstances. Mankind's long drawn out task is the overcoming
of one's present worst faults, for it seems, as each one is conquered,
another raises its head ad infinitum...making Alchemy a life's work.

If one draws attention to the diversity of communications by various
contributors who are at different levels of familiarity with our subject it
is to stimulate comment as Russel requests, and I concur. I will look with
interest at the outcome of this debate.

Frater had a very distinct gradation of material aligned to the individual
student coinciding with the previous instructions given, whereas here some
questions, though simple, receive overwhelming answers which bring reactive
responses and could confuse. At other times some very basic statements from
feeling contributors are derided by suggestions that they are out of place
on this alchemy forum. Alchemy or evolution of the mind is a serious
undertaking prior to chemical manipulation. A compassionate heart with
contriteness must be a prerequisite for all seekers of divine guidance or
revealed religion, whether one's creed be Christian, Buddhism, Hindu, or any
other sacred writings. All are only instruction for one's preparation prior
to entering into this Sacred Art! Alchemy is evolution of the mind and
requires discretion.
There are those who salute Frater Albertus at every turn and those to whom
his teachings were like water on a duck's back. He did teach in today's
language and left his mark. I am not personally aware of another more worthy
than he to be included on the list of 20th Century Alchemists. He was
extremely judicious with stimulating instructions leaving scope for
individual discovery by every student. It seems to be a foible of mine for
when I attempt to communicate on these subjects comparisons continuously
come up between this man and his teachings and most every other contributor.
His work is my only yardstick for comparative activities.

At this point I feel a desire to add to the history of this entity who was
presented to the forum recently by Russell.
He, Richard Albert Riedel was borne in Eastern Germany and raised in a large
family , later by a sole parent. He spent time in jail before migrating to
the USA at age 18. He supported himself and later his family as a
painter/decorator working for a contractor who did most of the Temples
maintenance work for the Later Day Saints. His teacher in Alchemy was a
member of AMORC who lived in L.A. After Ralf Lewis withdrew his permission
for Albert to teach in AMORC he established facilities on his property in
Salt Lake City. He commenced teaching in 1962. Shortly after that he was
excommunicated from the Mormon Church and an injunction placed on him by a
court preventing the release of a book already in the printer's hands,
because of comments connecting Alchemy to the founder Joseph Smith who was a
high order Mason prior to his "Book of Mormon" publication.
While his family remained with the church he lost his right to fellowship,
his job and his reputation. As seems a familiar story with pioneers, for
similar to Paracelsus, he continued to meet adversity. His work in Alchemy
and esoteric matters met rejection by virtually all professional,
intellectual academics. His neighbours complained about his premises, the
people attending were considered an intrusion on the area, his family
ignored his work, and many students turned against him in their self
While in his early days, like many of us, he was not the same as that which
he became in later years. His exemplary skills as a teacher, his devotion to
his cause and his unwavering faith in his visionary outlook toward the
future for which he was prepared, and assisted many others to look toward
almost to his last breath was noteworthy.
He sought no fame or fortune, existed in humble surroundings, dressed
conservatively, used possessions economically, amassed no wealth and gave
generously of his time and labour to whoever chose to seek enlightenment. He
did not suffer fools, but had extreme patience with anyone making a genuine
effort to adjust themselves. He claimed no title. His pet response when
asked whether he was this or that was "Jesus said who do you say I am. Most
people say I am a fool", and turn away.
He was a perfect instructor leading individuals to the brink from where they
could discover themselves for themselves. He could forewarn of impending
possibilities so that advantage was had rather than disadvantage and
generally fulfilled the role of a sage as much as any other historical icon.
For he who can stand beside him as a peer I will go on my knees to his
footstool and serve the rest of my days.

Much valuable work is being done both on the forum and in other ways to
bring historical knowledge to our attention and those making the effort are
to be applauded.
In my opinion our understanding when enhanced by imperical knowledge (called
reason) will reveal to us all sacred knowledge presently beyond our
comprehension. It is us who have to change our way of thinking.

WIYO (What is your opinion)?

Auris (Alec)

Wed May 01 16:02:48 1996
Subject: 0789 Regarding Occult Training
From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:23:57 GMT

Sorry Alec, but my conscience calls to cry out, and warn people who want to
hear against occult training which you describe in the following sentence:

>>>This distinctive perspicacious mentality is developed by special training
in esoteric schools whereby a much wider and far more important scope of
methodology is developed than the chemical manipulations of substances,
through which sages are made rather than born.<<<

Again this lecture (Vol. II/11) is taken from the GRAIL MESSAGE
"IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH" by Abd-ru-shin (Oskar Ernst Bernhardt)
Copyright 1971 by Irmingard Bernhardt, Vomperberg/Tyrol
ISBN 3-87860-093-3 (URL: )


This question must be answered with a definite "NO" ! Occult training,
which generally includes exercises for the attainment of clairvoyance,
clairaudience, etc, is a hindrance to a free development and to real
spiritual ascent. As soon as the training is fairly successful it results in
what in former times was described as a magician.
It is a process of one-sided groping forward from below upwards, whereby to
so-called terrestrial limits can never be crossed. All the phenomena likely
to be achieved in such conditions will be of a lower and most inferior
order, which cannot actually uplift a man inwardly, but may well lead him
Through these efforts man is only able to penetrate into his immediate
ethereal environment, where the entities are often more ignorant than man on
earth himself. All that he accomplishes here is that he exposes himself to
unknown dangers, from which he otherwise remains protected by not opening
One who has become clairvoyant or clairaudient through such training will
often see or hear things on this low plane which appear to be sublime and
pure, and yet which are far from it. In addition there is his own
imagination which, even more stimulated by his training, also creates a
surrounding that the student actually sees and hears, with resultant confusion.
A man thus artificially trained stands insecurely on his feet. He cannot
discriminate, nor with the best will can he draw a sharp line between truth
and deception or between the thousandfold ways in which the formative power
works in ethereal life. Finally there are the base and, for him, decidedly
injurious influences to which he voluntarily and with arduous efforts opens
himself, and which he cannot oppose with a higher power. Thus he soon
becomes a rudderless wreck on an unknown sea, which is liable to be a menace
to everything that comes into contact with it.
It is exactly the same as with a person who cannot swim. He is quite
capable of sailing in perfect safety over the unfamiliar element in a boat.
This can be compared to earthly life. But if during the voyage he removes
one of the protecting planks from the bottom, then he tears a hole in his
boat through which the water will enter, depriving him of his protection and
drawing him down. Through his inability to swim he will thus become a victim
of the unfamiliar element.
SUCH IS THE PROCEDURE IN OCCULT TRAINING ! Man only removes a plank from
his protecting boat, BUT DOES NOT LEARN TO SWIM!
There are swimmers, however, who call themselves experts. In this category
are those swimmers already possessed of a certain talent, which with a
little training they make more effective, and also continually try to
develop further. In such cases, then, a more or less natural talent will
unite with artificial training. However, even the best swimmer is confined
within rather narrow limits. Should he venture too far his strength will
give out, and he will finally be just as lost as a non-swimmer unless,
indeed, help comes to them both.
In the Ethereal World such help can only come from the Luminous Heights,
from the pure spiritual realm. An this help again can only approach if the
one in danger has reached a certain degree of purity in his psychic
development, with which it can unite to give a firm hold. Such purity cannot
be obtained through experimental occult training, but only through
developing true inner integrity by constantly looking upwards to the purity
of the Light.
If a man has followed THIS path it will in time bring him a certain measure
of purity which will naturally be reflected in his thoughts, words and
deeds. Then by degrees he will obtain a link with purer heights from which,
through reciprocal actions, he will also receive increased strength.
Throughout all the intermediary steps he then has a connection which will
hold him and to which he can cling. It will not be long before all that the
swimmer has vainly tried to achieve will be given to him without any effort.
But it is given with the care and precaution which are inherent in the
inexorable Laws of Reciprocal Action, so that he gets only as much of it as
his own strength can counterbalance, whereby all danger is excluded from the
At last the separating partition, which may be compared to the planks of a
boat, becomes thinner and thinner, and finally falls away altogether. That
then is the moment when, in the same way as a fish is at home in water, he
himself will feel quite at home in the Ethereal World right up to the
Luminous Heights. That alone is the right way !
What has been artificially forced by training is wrong. It is only the fish
that is free from danger in water, because that is "its element", for which
it has been properly equipped in a way which a trained swimmer can NEVER ATTAIN.
When a man intends to take up this training, it is preceded by a voluntary
decision, to the consequences of which he is then subjected. therefore he
cannot anticipate that help IS CERTAIN to be given him! He had the freedom
to decide beforehand!
But a man who induces others to take up such training, as a result of which
they are exposed to all sorts of dangers, must take a great part of the
consequences of the guilt of each individual upon his own shoulders. He will
become ethereally chained to them all. After laying aside his physical body
he must irrevocably descend to those who have departed before him, to those
who have succumbed to the dangers, right down to him who sank lowest of all.
He is unable to ascent himself until he has helped every single one to rise
again, until their wrong path has been obliterated and everything neglected
through such training has been retrieved. Such is the balance brought about
by reciprocal action and, at the same time, the merciful means by which he
can put right the injustice and himself ascend.
If such a men has not only influenced others through his words, but also
through his writings, he will be hit even more severely, because his
writings go on doing harm even after his earthly death. He must then wait in
the Ethereal World till the last person he has led astray, and whom he is
obliged to help on to the right path, has crossed over. Centuries may well
elapse in this process!
However, this does not mean that the field of the Ethereal World should
remain untouched and unexplored during life on earth!
At the appropriate hour it will be given to those who are inwardly matured
to feel at home where others would still be in danger. They will be
permitted to see the Truth and pass it on. But at the same time they will
also be able clearly to survey the dangers which threaten those who, by
means of occult training, wish to penetrate one-sidedly into the lower
spheres of unknown regions. They will never advocate occult training.


Please take it or leave it.

Petra Christiane Gottlieb

Wed May 01 16:02:58 1996
Subject: 0790 black sun
From: al4302
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:30:41 +0100

>if I was a fan of formalistic logic I'd never have
>written that the contradiction coincides with the
>devil. I only wished to give an instinctive hint
>to Philip, aware about the huge work he is going to
>face. The Alchemists said there are two ways, the
>short and easy one and the long and hard one.
>Well, I only adviced him to choose the former.

The Question is "is it for us to choose"

Might the Black Sun like the New Moon refer
to a form of that metal

Wed May 01 16:03:18 1996
Subject: 0791 Secrecy is not meant to be!
From: al4302
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:31:00 +0100

At 18:53 29/04/96 +0000, you wrote:
>From: Petra Gottlieb
>Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 10:32:13 GMT

>Only people who concentrate on making "mundane" gold, would want to hide
>their methods.

This statement reveals a certain mis-understanding. This art can be likened to a jig-saw puzzle with one fundamental difference, that is we do not have all the pieces. To complete the picture we have to find them and this is the problem.
With to many pieces the image may become more confused and ultimately makes for more difficulty in solving the great mystery. It is not a matter of ego or anything like that, it is with great reluctance that these things are not disclosed.
It would be easy for an Adept to tell all the ingredients in plan language so that all would understand but do you not see that it would not help you, it would hinder you.
All things in our work operate in a backwards fashion, it is an art of retrospect, the master learns from the pupil. Nothing is quite you one expects and the truth really is stranger than fiction.

Thu May 02 09:20:27 1996
Subject: 0792 Fabricius Alchemy - available cheap
From: Tim Scott
Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 14:49:34 -0700

Some of the members of this list may be interested in learning this. A
paperbound edition of Fabricius' _Alchemy: The Medieval Alchemists and their
Royal Art_ is available through a remainder house for $9.95 (this edition
previously sold for $28). The order# is 963534, add $3 for shipping in US,
Edward Hamilton's address is Falls Village, CT 06031-5000. Unfortunately I
can't vouch for the printing quality of this edition, and I note it is
8x10.75 inches in size which is quite a bit smaller than the original.

And now my opinions. Fabricius gives an extremely brief review of alchemical
history, and then writes, "but of course as we know now the alchemists were
wasting their time attempting to transmute elements." The entire rest of the
book, then, is a Jungian/depth-psychological treatment of the old writings
and drawings. As far as the writing is concerned I personally don't see any
value in it. Anyone seeking any information on operative or practical alchemy
will find nothing here.

->!HOWEVER!<- The book, for me, is redeemed by the hundreds of extremely high
quality reproductions of the engravings from medieval alchemical works (Mylius,
Maier, etc.) These are the best I have ever seen, and to me the represent the
value of this book.

YMM (of course) V.

Best regards,
Tim Scott

Thu May 02 09:20:35 1996
Subject: 0793 Secrecy is not meant to be !
From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:09:42 GMT

Dear al4302,

You write: >>>It would be easy for an Adept to tell all the ingredients in
plain language, so that all would understand, but do you not see that it
would not help you, it would hinder you.<<<

It can only hinder me, IF I HAVEN'T ASKED THE QUESTION !!!
Once I am able to formulate a question, that is call the baby by its NAME,
my consciousness is up to the level to receive an appropriate answer, i.e. I
have become THE MAGNET to attract it.

I liked very much all the other points you made.

Petra Christiane Gottlieb

Thu May 02 09:20:44 1996
Subject: 0794 Regarding Secrecy
From: John Obrien
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:13:44 -0500 (CDT)

> Those of us who had instructions in depth from Frater Albertus in the Sacred
> Teachings were ever so often told that there are no secrets. The only
> obstruction to evolution is one's ignorance of the laws of nature whereby we

I whole-heartedly agree with all that was said here.

> for Albert to teach in AMORC he established facilities on his property in
> Salt Lake City. He commenced teaching in 1962. Shortly after that he was
> excommunicated from the Mormon Church and an injunction placed on him by a
> court preventing the release of a book already in the printer's hands,
> because of comments connecting Alchemy to the founder Joseph Smith who was a
> high order Mason prior to his "Book of Mormon" publication.

As a Mormon I had not heard this before although, as a student of Alchemy
and Kabbalah, I had suspected it. I keep my studies to myself as I don't
feel many of my brother Latter Day Saints would understand or even be
tolerant. Given a choice between being a member of the LDS church or of
studying Alchemy, I would chose Alchemy as it has brought me more knowledge
and understanding than (probably) any church could.

> WIYO (What is your opinion)? > Auris (Alec)

While I have some of yours attention, perhaps someone would like to join
with me in trying to draw a correlation between the Human Genome and
the Tanach, using principles of Kabbalah as a guide. This has long been a
'pet' project of mine and I have made a number of interesting correlations

The Human Genome Sequencing project is fairly well along and may provide
enough data to support some of my hypotheses.

John D. O'Brien

Thu May 02 09:20:52 1996
Subject: 0795 Secrecy is not meant to be!
From: douwe
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:04:21 GMT

Dear Petra.

It seems that I have offended you slightly, I am sorry for that, I
just tried to give some thoughts to Russ House.

I think that some things are too great to be spoken out, and
especially so on moments and in places that don't seem to be as Pure
as the matter about which is spoken.
This might not mean that the person who holds his/her mouth
would not want to tell about it, maybe he/she is dying to tell of it.
Maybe he is talking about it all day already, when he talks about any
subject, but no one hears it anyway.
If he would put it in clear words, people would materialize the idea
and misunderstand the point completely, while they might think that
they may have learned something valuable.
To the speaker this is a debasement, and to the one that listens it is
something which might make him/her misunderstands and likely turn of
the path because they falsely think that they pricked trough the
falseness of it all.

There are a lot of reasons and they all come down to the fact that the
highest truth wants to be in a suitable place.

All I personally know, (even though how little that may be), I have
seen being clearly written down in many books, of which I regard the
bible the greatest one in this sense (but that is a personal choice
because there are hundreds of books with the same value).
A lot of these things would be regarded as secrets, but they aren't
because they have been spoken out clearly.
People are so much focussed in some other mode of thought, after some
selfish desire, that they completely seem to miss the point.

To tell someone what a tree looks like is simple, but hard enough
still, but if you tell someone of an consciousness which totally goes
Beyond the scope of this nature, then people won't understand, because
they only are familiar with the world that they live in.

So, secrets don't exist more then the bolts that lock the full/new
soul and spirit and body from them, and these same bolts have to be
removed by yourself, no one will be able to do that for you.
From that point on the secrets will not be secrets anymore, but you
might find yourself saying less, because if It will be brought forth
(speech is one of the strongest organs of reproduction)in such a way
that a proper place is created in a unsuitable situation then It will
live shortly, soon it will be recreated and debased by the wrong
perceptions and understanding of others, making the truth which used
to be there to rush out.
No one likes to see or likes to feel that.
Still it sits in places untold but told, in a way which is beyond
matter already, and it is in every word of the sage, and in any book
written by any sage.

I am not too great with words in English, so I am glad that Alec
message 0788 said a lot of things which I couldn't have phrased as
clearly as he did.
I hope you (Petra) don't take any of this as an offence, because it is
not meant like that in any form as you should know.


Thu May 02 09:21:01 1996
Subject: 0796 Need book help
From: John
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 20:42:56 -0700

Can anyone help me locate accurate titles & copy of books:

In Latin : Kircker Mundus Subterraneous

or in any other language

In English: Secrets of Cathedrals

Maybe by Fulcanelli

Also a book called Philosophers Stone



Thu May 02 09:21:11 1996
Subject: 0797 Information Energy
From: Dennis C. Lee
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:23:57 -0700

If information is a form of energy, and one transmits this information
energy outward, then by conservation of energy, equal (or greater?)
information energy will return.

Dennis C. Lee

Thu May 02 09:21:20 1996
Subject: 0798 Regarding Occult Training
From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Thu, 2 May 96 19:09 NZST

reading Oska Bernhardt's paper on the no no's of occult training really got
my dander up. It's the biggest piece of crap I have read in years with all
the usual platitiudes and trimmings. There are so many holes in his theories
that you could drive a truck through them. I will not bore you all with the
pros and cons but the occult has been part of my life for a great many years
and I have reaped many benefits. Including a smattering of psychic
perception (on a good day). Alchemy is riddled with occultism, and I doubt
you could be an alchemist without it infecting your vital juices and
imagery.The idea with people like Bernhardt is to forgo any sort of
occultism except their own (I also think aspects of christianity is also
occultism). Well that's my ten cents worth!

Pat zalewski

Thu May 02 22:10:29 1996
Subject: 0799 Secrecy is not meant to be !
From: al4302
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 19:00:59 +0100

At 09:24 02/05/96 +0000, you wrote:
>From: Petra Gottlieb
>Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:09:42 GMT
>Dear al4302,
>You write: >>>It would be easy for an Adept to tell all the ingredients in
>plain language, so that all would understand, but do you not see that it
>would not help you, it would hinder you.<<<
>It can only hinder me, IF I HAVEN'T ASKED THE QUESTION !!!
>Once I am able to formulate a question, that is call the baby by its NAME,
>my consciousness is up to the level to receive an appropriate answer, i.e. I
>have become THE MAGNET to attract it.
>I liked very much all the other points you made.

Yes you are right, but added to what has already been said, is
the problem of the different ways of working i.e. your picture
maybe different to mine while at the same stage. If I tell you my
next peice of the puzzle it may not be yours and this would lead to
The answer can only be given by your personal teacher
or by Divine Inspiration, that is, you work it out for yourself.
For me it is a moral question, I merely try to provoke the correct
type of thought, it is not for me to pass on then exact details of my
I will ask you one question, Has anyone from the Paracelcus Research Centre
ever completed the work? this includes Brother Albert.


Why do you think that should be?

Perhaps it would help you to know that the removeal of doubt is the key,
(this maybe provided by the teachers stone) absolute faith in the goal is a prerequisite
to enlightenment. As the Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to the
court of Dragonlair said;

As one proceeds one collects peices of the puzzle and these form a picture,
and in so doing this picture reveals the next peice which exspands the picture to the
point where all the peices have to be rearanged to form a new picture, and so on.

Thu May 02 22:10:42 1996
Subject: 0800 Books by Klossowski de Rola
From: calhhh
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:53:53 -0400

Dear Forum Members :

I recently sent a request for HELP, looking forward to obtain
information on Stanislas Klossowski de Rola's books to which
I receive no reply. I apologize for your taking your time
again in this subject, but COULD ANYONE PLEASE HELP WITH

Message # 0661 ----------------------------------------------
I recently read a book by Stanislas Klossowski de Rola called
"ALCHEMY The Secret Art (Thames and Hudson, New York reprinted
1992) which I truly enjoyed by its content as well as its
wonderful illustrations.

I would like to learn more information about this author, as
well as to purchase his other works, so I would appreciate
greatly any insights as to his work, and also the bibliographic
references of his other books. I recently saw mentioned in the
forum another of his books by the name of "Le Jeu d'Or",
published in English as "The Golden Game" but no references
about publisher, etc. were given.

Your assistance will be greatly appreciated.