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Inner alchemy archives - HermaphroditeBack to alchemy forum page . Back to Inner alchemy archive.Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:23:26 -0800 From: Adam McLean >> Often the homunculus could be seen as hermaphrodite. Belle Hall wrote: >But does a man who first contemplates the hermaphrodite >see emasculation before he sees the uniqueness of the hermaphrodite? >I saw confusion in the androgyny before I saw it as halfway to where I >may be going? I myself have never seen the hermaphrodite as an emasculated male figure, but rather as an entity having its own unique nature. It does not live in my mind, as an effeminate male figure or a virago, but as a unique type of being. Adam McLean Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 16:36:46 -0800 From: Belle Hall > >But does a man who first contemplates the hermaphrodite > >see emasculation before he sees the uniqueness of the hermaphrodite? > I myself have never seen the hermaphrodite as an emasculated male figure, > but rather as an entity having its own unique nature. It does not live in my > mind, as an effeminate male figure or a virago, but as a unique type of being. Dear Adam McLean, Please forgive me. One of the first things I tell my students each year is that my sense of time, space and order is generally not in sync with the mainstream. I have been known to tell the punchline only to have a student point out that I "forgot" to tell the story. Your insightful response reminds me how much I have learned in 10 short months. It was initially that I saw the hermaphroditic figure as perhaps "lacking." Never having seen such a figure before, my childlike nature went "Oh yuck!" As I study the figure now as symbolic for a higher understanding I can see it (I don't like that word-how about personage?) as the unique being the personage represents. Perhaps it also symbolizes to some degree the unique qualities it takes to monitor a necessary (at least for me) discussion group as well as the patience to gently "teach" a teacher. I will work harder at tellings that are in the correct order. What would Dr. Carl say about that in regards to alchemy? peace, Belle Hall Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 16:55:36 +0000 From: Br.Athanasius Is not the alchemic reference to the King and Queen conjoined aka the Hermaphrodite an allusion to the Platonic concept of the same principle. That is to say the Hermaphrodite represent the fulness of the Man, Adam Qadman of the Kabballah, Wang, of the Far Eastern tradition, or perhaps more useful to a alchemic discussion the Universal Man of the Islamic esoteric tradition. ?? Thus the hermaphrodite is in no way emaculated but represents symbolically the fulness of Man's potentialities. the servant of God, Brother Athanasius Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 16:09:53 -0500 From: Bernard Bovasso Belle Hall writes: >> Often the humunculus could be seen as hermaphrodite. >I know very well what you are saying to me and understand >your kindness in its intent. But does a man who first >contemplates the hermaphrodite see emasculation before >he sees the uniqueness of the hermaphrodite? Belle: If a man or a woman are conditioned in Freudian localisms they may be happy to see "emasculation" to account for and thus justify however they may feel inadequate. But you will notice that "emasculation" is in effect a sacrifice of power that has become genderized in our own time and detailed as male (qua the phallus and the male seminal function). That is an unfortunate localism since power may be represented in a multitude of ways. For example, the handless maiden and the lion who loses his paws was recently discussed. In either case the sacrifice of power is required before the process may commence. But if one's ego locates the sum of power located in the genitals, then the term "emasculation" may be appropriate. It is only one avenue to surrendering power and is fraught with dread for the simple reason that it indicates a process involvement on the way to a stupendous change. > I saw confusion in the adrogyny before I saw it as halfway to >where I may be going? If that even makes any sense. In a way I >answered my own question in that it is what is in the >composition of the base metal in the first place that determines >how the alchemist sees the initial homoncula. Yes, in the first place, as you say, and which is the original (*arche*) place of the protohyle and prima materia represented as a *massa confusa* or condition of undifferentiated natures, gender difference is also con-fused. The hermaphrodite is a next step in this fusion state but already indicating the elements of difference as maleness/femaleness, animus/anima, Sol/Luna, etc., or as you may prefer it, Humunculus/homuncula. The danger run here, of course, is of literalizing or ontically fixing these states in becoming so that the (in this case) gender fusion is allowed to prevail as the entire trip and by which the personal identity is accommodated. This would amount to an arresting of process, but worst of all, precluding it working its way to the completion (of self-discovery). Bernard Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 06:45 PST From: Diane (I wanted to pitch in here to relieve Belle of the "only female" experience!) My understanding of the Hermaphrodite is that it is not made from us, but we of it. I have been taught that as entities we were neither female or male and in the desire to experience the form of matter we created bodies of both polarities to descend into. After that, we were separated into gender and now the challenge is to pull ourselves back together through levels of consciousness. The homunculous, from how I understand it, is the test of an alchemist, to burnish him/her into another level of understanding, that of creation. As Richard pointed out, it ends up displaying and acting out all the qualities of ourselves that we are unaware of and the final part of the test is to understand that we created it and can uncreate it, but that can only be accomplished once we recognize the homunculus to be ourselves. A great fictional account of this burnishing is in The Red Lion by Maria Orsi. From: Vladimir Georgiev Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:48:40 +100 From Jean.MacIntyre@ualberta.ca (Jean MacIntyre) The Rocky Mountain Medieval and Renaissance Association The Multicultural Middle Ages and Renaissance: A Dialogue of the Disciplines Sponsored by the University of Alberta The Banff Centre for Conferences May 15-18, 1997 ...................................................................... 3. Max Bell 156 History of Science Chair : Robert Graybill, Central Missouri University "Holy Hermaphrodites and Medical Facts" The Depiction of Hermaphrodites in Alchemy and Medicine" .................................................. Vladimir Georgiev Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 16:51:40 GMT From: Caroline Robertson >The Rocky Mountain Medieval and Renaissance Association >The Banff Centre for Conferences >May 15-18, 1997 >"Holy Hermaphrodites and Medical Facts" The Depiction of Hermaphrodites in >Alchemy and Medicine" If you go and if there is a transcript of the talk, I would be interested to receive it. but if not, then no matter. Caroline |