|
Inner alchemy archives - SerpentsBack to alchemy forum page . Back to Inner alchemy archive.Subject:- Serpents and Sex Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:41:58 -0500 From: Gilbert Arnold In response to Deanna's question I would like to forward the following comments; Symbolism was and is a very important part of communicating individual conceptions of what Alchemy is about; this was done as a function of alchemical knowledge being expressed symbolically in different ways including and by; 1) Individuals who had a clear knowledge and experience of Alchemical procedures but a poor knowledge of symbology. 2) Individuals who had no first hand knowledge of Alchemy but a good knowledge of Symbols. 3) Individuals who had no knowledge about either Alchemy or Symbolism. 4) Different combinations of 1,2 and 3. A medieval monk writing in a monastic context would probably shun the use of graphic sexual symbology if he intended his work to be used by other monks and if the monk in question had led a life of celibacy. As an example, Basil Valentine goes to great pains to explain this very point. Basil's symbology uses examples from typical renaissance materials ie greek mythology, Biblical and Sacramental symbolism, practical examples ect. Basil also states that he was intending to be as clear as possible. Other male practionners whose sexual experience was a rape of the female with quick orgasmic result for themselves would describe quick explosive "alchemical" manipulations with their own sexual symbology. Sex being as sensitive a subject as "real lab experience" I'll move on to the specific symbols you mentioned; The Snake; In the woodcuts that I have found that had some kind of correlation with tangible results ( both in physical and spiritual alchemy) there are usually four kinds of serpents, depending on their modus operandi; Air serpents; dragonlike fire serpents; salamander like water serpents; sea monster like earth serpents; serpent like The serpents in questions I have found to symbolise duality in differing aspects; 1) elemental and physical action 2) catalysing and dissolving action 3) Stabilising or coagulating actions As to the King and Queen in the bath; These could represent vitriols from metals; or metals themselves. The bath could represent a common solvent or process. The crown usually represents a metal. Many solvents can be prepared by combining vitriols or salts and distilling; many kinds of aqua regias not only the nitic acid/hydrochloric acid combo, the serpent probably represents a foul smelling, dangerous acid. As one example; Sulfuric acid (oil of vitriol) and other alkahests appears to be more "potent" for certain works when derived from copper and iron vitriols. Blessings, Gilbert Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 00:31:11 -0400 From: Deanna Herrera Dearest Gilbert, So what you are saying is that if the depiction I had described was symbolic of an alchemical (physical process) then the plates were symbolic of a specific process of mixing substances (metals, acids etc...) rather than being symbolic of an internal union of the anima and animus to create a third entity of soul or the Self. The snake would depict an actual physical property or event and the type of creature would infer or be a code for the specific nature of that event. The piece I am confused about is at what point does the alteration of physical properties begin to transform the inner world of the achemist and does the inner world of the alchemist have physical effects on the outer world? I suppose, because I am a psychologist that I truly have not taken alchemical work literally as I might if I were coming at it from another angle. I am always looking for symbolic representations of spiritual growth. It is an interesting exercise in projection, being who studies symbols I would naturally interpret say, even the most straightforward alchemical recipe (please offer a better term) as having a non-physical inner world meaning. I truly appreciate your comments and am very interested in the symbolism of the snake creature and how its physical correlates can be related to archetypal experience. If you are struck by any ideas concerning the final querry please reply. To All. How do you spell Cabala? Dr. Deanna Herrera Date: 27th Jan 1997 From: Adam McLean >In an old book of alchemy where I found a charming depiction of >a man in one tub wearing a crown on his head and a woman in another >tub wearing a crown as well. The two then are, in the next frame, in >another tub together and all you can see is their crowns. The next scene >details a serpent-like creature with a crown atop its head and in the next >frame the serpent-creature divides and becomes again a man and a >woman both with their crowns intact. The engraving obviously depicted >the union of the masculine and the feminine to become something other, >a third thing, which then became the two royals once again. Do you have a reference to the source of these illustrations? They appear to be a variation of the 'Pretiosissimum donum Dei' - the most precious gift of God. This early manuscript of which at least forty copies have survived dates from the 15th century. I have placed a copy of an English translation of the Latin text with some early 17th century engravings on the alchemy web site. The early text is, I think you will agree, simultaneously a description of a physical and an inner psychological process. This particular series of symbols was very influential and probably inspired to some extent both the 'Rosarium' and the 'Crowning of Nature' series. The 'Donum Dei' presents the work as a union of two principles - the male and female - through a conception, and gestation phase, which descends into a putrefaction, pictured by the worms or snakes, through to the rebirth of the king and queen in a spiritualised form which has integrated the snake/worm/scaly dragon aspect. Jumg discusses some of this material in 'Alchemical Studies' where he presents modern drawings from some of his patients which seem to parallel the symbolism of the earlier alchemical figures. A physical alchemical process involving the separation, putrefaction and final purification of substances in a flask can be paralleled with the inner process. We can use experiences drawn from working alchemically with substances in flasks as the basis for our meditations on this inner work, just as in some other traditions images taken from the natural world were used as metaphors for inner processes. Adam McLean Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 00:28:06 -0500 From: Br. Athanasius There is no essential opposition between a physical interpretation of a symbol, and a psychic interpretation, the mark of authenticity of a symbol is that is is able to withstand interpretations of on a multiplicity of domains and levels. Truth is polyvalent, and the symbol, which is the expression of the archetype of truth, is as a neccesary result also polyvalent. This is the key to genuine understanding of all symbolism, be it alchemical, or kabbalistic, or otherwise. It is the most basic error, though, to confuse domains of different orders of reality, or what is worse to truncate all of reality to one level. There is a tendencey in modern times toward reductionism, which is the surest way to render the various traditional studies of no real value. Reality is hierarchical, starting with the transcendent and descending down the degrees of reality to the lowest levels. Said another way, reality is rooted in the upper domain of quality and conjoined with the realm of quantity, but this relationship is always assymetrical, the domain of the quality or essence clearly being ther superior. That being said, asnwers of a purely psychological order are by their nature limited and thus incapable of providing the key to the nature of certain symbols and symbolisms, that is not to say that they are untrue, or even false but it is to say that it must be born always in mind of their limited nature, the more true answers are to be sought in the realm of the spirit, the Nous of European tradition, this is a fact attested to by the Kabbalists, the Alchemists, (as well as certain Christian mystics and even Vedantists). External and rational explainations are the husk, the Interior is the kernal that must be sought with the greatest effort. To those familiar with the Zohar, the oft repeated expression "Come and See" is not merely a literary device but a formula for spiritual realization. It points to the experential nature of genuine spirituality, and to the objective quality of it a revealed, (This is expressed by the word " See"). The word "come" denoted the quality of work and struggle toward the goal, the jouney toward the pole of reality. Note well it does not say " Come and Feel" or "Stay where you are and think about it" but " Come and See" this alludes to the Psalm verse "Taste and See that the Lord is Good" (it might be noted hear that the root of wisdom in Latin is to "taste") and the dialogue between, St. Andrew (the First Called) and St. Peter ( the Rock) about Jesus ( the Logos), St. Andrew said only to St. Peter "Come and See" because rational explaination would fall far short of the Transcendant reality of the Logos of God. I have expressed these thoughts in Christian language, but they are truths of a universal order. I hope to here some feedback. The least of monks Brother Athanasius Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 09:25:58 UT From: Mike Dickman For Deanna Herrera, Taking your last query first, Qabalah and /or Kabalah seem the most common, the former being more correct as to the letters (QBLH) of the word, the second a closer approximation of its pronunciation. I was interested in the serpent question you've brought up - not least inasmuch as I'm busy working among other things on a series of naga texts from the Tibetan... Nagas, of course (lu [klu] in Tibetan, lung in Chinese), are the holders of the knowledge and texts of what is technically called transcendent and perfect insight (prajña paramita - skipping most diacritics) often rather lamely translated as the perfection of wisdom. Pra- as a root means 'exceedingly', 'very'; -jña - the root of our word 'to know' - means just that; and their combination could be taken to signify 'insight', 'realisation' in the sense of perceiving and accepting... Para = 'taking across' and -iti, 'going'; the combined form, then, construable as 'transcending', 'transcendent'... The Tibetan shes rab pha rol tu phyin pa (pronounced as sherab p'aröltu chinpa) bears this out. Shes is 'knowing', rab 'supreme', pha 'beyond', rol in this context seems to be cognate with the abyss of cyclic existence known as samsara, or 'running around in circles' , as I once heard it put); tu, oddly enough, means 'to', and phyin pa 'to reach'. Nagarjuna, the compiler of the so-called Middle Way and most probably of the sutras on which it is based - notably the Prajñaparamitasutras - was said to have received these from the nagas... Cf. the following tale... Nagarjuna - who, by the way, was also a famous alchemist - was abbot of the great Buddhist university of Nalanda. He noticed, while teaching, that whenever two young men were present there was always a strong smell of sandalwood which disappeared when they left. He asked them about it one day and they admitted that they were actually naga princes and that they anointed themselves with sandal paste to protect themselves from human impurities. They then told him that they had been present when the Buddha taught the Perfection of Wisdom Sutras, and, since very few people had been able to understand them at the time, had written them down and taken them to the naga realm in order to safeguard them until someone capable of understanding them should appear. They invited him to come with them to their undersea realm and study them, which he did, returning some time later to teach what he had learned there, and bringing with him the 100,000 verse Prajñaparamita-sutra. Hope this is of some aid. Respectfully, Mike Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 03:57:16 -0600 (CST) From: Mackie Blanton It seems that many of us spend more time speaking over one another's energy, as if Alchemy has to be and mean one thing only, and we won't rest until we get others to mispeak so that we can then claim that our understanding of Alchemy must broaden. To my knowledge very few - if any, actually - of the alchemists on our various lists have ever intimated or outright stated that Alchemy does not include "non-physical inner world meaning." So the depiction of Alchemy as described here recently (by D. Herrera), describing certain plates, suggests both that Alchemy can be and is that symbolic of "a physical process" (transmutation, transformation, transsubstantiation, etc.) and that which is symbolic of internal union, change, and reunion. Obviously, the two ideas of what Alchemy is, suggests the nature of Alchemical understanding: it is not, in other words, impossible to view Alchemy as the reunion of our varied assumptions of what it is, and of what it can be. It's never either/or. It's always both/and. And certainly it is always many/more. "Cabala" in Western traditions. "Qabbalah" in Eastern, including Ashkenazic, traditions. Christians tend to use "cabala." (As someone else has already pointed out here.) So, please, let's stop pretending that Alchemists are onsided about what Alchemy is. Just pay to the transformations. Mackie Blanton Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 18:48:33 UT From: Mike Dickman Mackie, Although there are, occasionally (and possibly even only perhaps) elements of one-upmanship in some of what appears on our forum, I for one am more than grateful to all contributors, and - indeed! - what strikes me most about them is their generosity and their humility... Perhaps we are reading different fora?... A note, by the way, on qabalah/cabala... According to Dujols/Fulcanelli (he could just as conceivably be wrong, of course, and there are certainly distinct moments where one feels that a modicum of antisemitism might have clouded his opinion concerning the former), and quoting just his 'Demeures Philosophales' - he often goes into this subject - there is a very distinct difference between QBLH and cabala, to the point where they are completely different things with completely different aims in view, although both equally complex in terms of technique and diversity... Cabala he divides into Pythagorean, Hermetic and Phonetic, none of which has anything to do with any of the aspects of qabalah as generally studied or understood. It's worth a look. The exact references are Vol. I, pp 148-169 and p 343, Vol II pp 262-276... There is also a brief reference in Canseliet's introduction to the 'Mystère des Cathédrales' (p 27) Respectfully, Mike Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:01:06 -0500 From: Gilbert Arnold Dear Diana, You wrote; "Dearest Gilbert, " That a first for someone calling me "dearest" in the context of an alchemical discussion (smile) <-- another first. You wrote; >So what you are saying is that if the depiction I had described >was symbolic of an alchemical (physical process) then the plates >were symbolic of a specific process of mixing substances (metals, >acids etc...) rather than being symbolic of an internal union of the >anima and animus to create a third entity of soul or the Self. The >snake would depict an actual physical property or event and the >type of creature would infer or be a code for the specific nature of >that event. " I am not saying that the depiction is not "symbolic". Rather, I was giving you an interpretation of the symbols from an the point of view of "lab alchemy" as a context to what could be an interpretation. I am also a Gnostic Bishop, and carry out Chaplaincy duties that involve some counseling and I am familiar with Jungian type symbol analysis. I also have read and used information contained in Adam's publication. My training as an engineer has permitted me to work in the fields of Agriculture, Chemistry, Metallurgy, Chemical Engineering, Pharmaceutical and Phytopharmaceutical Iatro Chemistry, Environmental Engineering thus giving me a field of life experience to build up a background to interpret symbols. I used an example in the field of lab alchemy. I could have used an example in the field of hydrology (water flow in "snake-shaped" watercourses) or any other of the above mentioned fields. Or I could have discussed how I learnt about the different kinds of "snakes" by observing different chemical, alchemical and metallurgical processes. You wrote; >The piece I am confused about is at what point does the alteration of >physical properties begin to transform the inner world of the achemist >and does the inner world of the alchemist have physical effects on the >outer world? When the Alchemist (Defined here as someone who does something usefull with Alchemical knowledge) begins to learn from the manifestation of "Why" Gnosis (Wisdom-Sophia) and and "How" Gnosis (Knowledge-Logos) to result in a harmonious manifestation with the process of Creation ie " true knowing" . Blessings, Gilbert Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 15:07:28 -0500 From: Gilbert Arnold As I understand from an Alchemical point of view the process of creation is a result of logos (intent) and sophia (wisdom). intent wisdom creation This is the path of Nature that I strive to follow and to find in the processes I observe happening around me within any given context, be it giving the last rites to someone who is dying or preparing a extraction of iron from it's ore. A path includes a process, a point in given time and an upcoming direction, all linked, all interdependent. Blessings, Gilbert Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:09:32 -0400 From: Deanna Herrera To those of you who graciously replied to my queries. To: Mike Dickman, Very interesting. I appreciate the thoughtful comments on cabala and also, the good data. I realize that the question was a basic one so I am thankful for the respectful reply. A bit surprised by the richness of responses I have received and retrieved from the replies to others re: cabala and etc... Even the most basic of questions can open up discourse on a variety of levels of interperetation and understanding. I get a bit lost on the naga data. Although I am quite interested in it. I need some basic readings on those. It gets somewhat obtuse for my concrete mind. Any suggestions besides what you have already sent my way? I hope to hear from you soon. To: Br. Athanasius, Thank you for the gift of your thoughts. I believe this to be true, that there is no opposition between physical interperetation of a symbol and a psychic interperetation etc... What I was trying to get at, unsuccesfully, is that symbolic interperetation can be a form of projection of one's inner life onto the outer world, which is no less valid than other types of knowing when one understands a meaning of a symbol (although, there are often many meanings).{This part gets a little personal so please be patient.} But it can act as a key to opening doors of knowing the hidden aspects of the Self or collective Soul development. For instance, I went grocery shopping one day and left a bag of food on a countertop. An hour later, in Beta wave mode, I put my hand in the bag to retrieve the goods and what I found was a snake which then curled itself around my hand. Earlier that day, in alpha mode, I had meditated and was struck by an image of three men in a pyramid who were offering me a snake. This suprised me because I do not practice active imagining in my meditations. In fact, the vision interrupted my meditation, like an image on a screen. The next day another snake found it's way into my bed. I was not meditating this time either, the snake was real and I threw it outside. Clearly, I was not intending to understand the MEANING of the snake symbolicaly, in terms of a psychological view. Instead I was infused with a certain knowing or impression of the snakes archetypal power in my life during that time period. Now, if I did not pay attention to the appearance of snakes in both meditative and waking states I could have lost some good intuitive understanding of the message that was being sent. I will not waste time detailing my beliefs as to where and from what/who the message was sent. The point is that I was not making a psychololical inquiry into the meaning of 'snake' and at the same time a psychological understanding was the cognitive vehicle I used to make sense of the inner knowing later in time. Intellectual understanding is not the same as knowing, it is simply one attempt to define and describe events that are beyond reason. Beyond the rational. So what? I experienced a transcendent knowing or understanding of the reptile and that in turn was beneficial. The same week, (I was ill at the time) I had a dream of worms slithering inside of my belly. After the dream I was symptom free for two years after three years of extreme physical pain and surgery. Perhaps I felt the physical impact of, the upper domain of quality... conjoining with "the realm of quality" (well said by you). Inner, knowing and psychological understanding are not mutually exclusive and both can approach similar transformation of self. The knowing can come through the back door or the grocery bag. It can also come from scholarly or psychological pursuits. That for me is the inner personal work related to my intellectual/ psychological understanding of this specific symbology. Sorry, to bore you with this narrative but I am making a point. A psychological querry does not exclude spiritual, physical intellectual, or emotional querries. It simply gives one (me) a language to explore and navigate the process of inner knowing. Also, I do believe in archetypal power so, the historical coding of symbolic knowledge is important to unlocking or managing the power of a given symbol. Worms and snakes are related symbolicaly by their regenerative natures (transformation, rebirth and all of that) am I wrong? And at the same time symbols do as you say, withstand interperetaion over time. Simply because one chooses a certain language to gain access to hidden realms of "essense" does not make that language any less useful or valid in obtaining knowledge. Like you say, It is not untrue, it may only be limited. What is language if not symbolic? We are limited and freed by language. I disagree that the Interior is the kernal that must be sought with the greatest of effort. Effort, spiritual growth, and Christianity do seem married ideologicaly. The notion of Effort (work) does not follow logically with the rest of your argument. Taste and See do not imply any more effort than Feel and Think. Unless, I misunderstood your last paragraph, I really do not see and taste the whole idea of effort and how it is related to spiritual knowing of universal order. Many traditions utilize games and play to obtain understanding, to evoke higher beings, inner knowing and altered states of consciousness through having fun. Being is one way of knowing and so is daydreaming. Some times I think that the interior is with us all of the time and shows itself in the simplest forms, we simply forget to look. /for instance, I was in Oaxaca doing some work this Holiday season where I witnessed something mundane and holy. A small girl was sitting on my lap. She was very very poor but was not asking for money. She simply wanted some attention. So I was touching her hair and speaking to her about small things. A little boy walked by us and was singing teribbly and loudly for money. I had given the girl some pesos for a drink and some food. She then gave the little boy all of the money I had given to her for his song. That certainly was a transformative experience for me sans effort. It was a matter of looking and listening and paying attention to the beauty in others which brought me back to remembering my own inner truth/ knowing which is not that far from the universal truth of giving. O.K. I'll get off of my lecturette here. I just don't think that inner knowing needs to be this constant effort thing of self sacrifice and buddha like denial of attachment or whatever, there is no parting of the clouds or dramatic transformation. It might be the paying attention to what is miraculous in regular life minus heavy intellectualisms and philosophising (I am not saying here that I think you were doing either). I apologize for the stream of concsiousness slightly schizophrenic correspondence. Making words out of what is beyond description is difficult. I am checking myself here, I am getting off of the Alchemy topic. So sorry. If you are the least of monks I can hardly imagine the fine quality of person held by the median of monks. Deanna To: Adam McLean Thank you for the reply. You answered my questions. I will research the original. I found the book holding the plates in Italy and returned it to the library there in Rome. I have quite a bit more to go on now. You have provided me with useful call ws. It seems that the "Donum Dei" is not far from what I guessed to be the significance of the plates. Pretiosissimum donum dei, "the most precious gift of god". Thank you for the translation. I am having difficulty with my retrieval of data via websites. Technological problems, insufficient RAM. I hope to gain access to engravings you have added to the web sites. Yes, I have seen modern drawings of patients in flasks. This material is similar to homunculous drawings, which seem related to a very different chemical process. I will review Jungs 'Studies'. I have also seen individuals encased in amber. These I find particularly interesting because the Self is seen as undergoing an evolutionary process of natural gestation in a living substance, intact unto itself with no external manipulation. That too can be used for meditative practices. What do you think? Am I off the track? Deanna To Mackie, I didn't mean to speak over anyone's energy. Particularly yours. However, I disagree. I think sometimes Alchemy can be an either/ or and it can also be a both/and. It just depends on the viewpoint. How can anything be a never? Like the plates I described, the king can still be a king and hold his integral constellation of elements and the queen a queen even though they both merge and then become the Other. The integrity of an idea or concept or way of interpereting a discipline does not imply permanence nor is it immune to alteration. Nor does it negate other viewpoints. All things are true and sometimes at once. And sometimes only one truth can hold it's integrity at one time. Not looking for a reply. Very sincerely, Deanna Subject:- Crowned serpent Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:08:08 -0800 From: Richard Roberts To Deanna I had hoped last week to reply to your query re crowned figures in "tubs," but two journalists were here interviewing me about my psychological development as reflected sequentially in my eight books. One of them delves into animus/a, and I would be glad to send you a comp copy of "Tales for Jung Folk." One of the stories about the persona was made into the movie "The Mask." You may contact me off-line at rroberts@hooked.net I think the strange crowned figure is more likely a dragon, because Mercurius or Hermes took many forms. As serpens mercurii he was the dragon that creates and destroys itself as the prima materia. In Paracelsus, serpens mercurii , or draco, is bisexual and capable of self-fertilization and childbearing, as he is throughout all of alchemy. These "tubs" to which you refer are of course the alchemical baths which effect the transformations. Mercurius' masculine component is frequently depicted as a solar king, and his fem. a lunar queen. Their union brings forth the homonculus, the infant Mercurius, who reverts to prima materia and again differentiates into masculine and feminine. The symbolism of "making love as an alchemical process" to which you refer is often depicted as couples in coitus, one humorous caption to which reads,"I need you as the hen the cock." It should be remembered, however, that the philosopher's stone, the goal of the process, symbolized the resolution of all opposites, hot/cold, up/down, etc. as well as m/f. The latest edition of my book "Tarot Revelations" has a cover that depicts al the aforementioned points of your query. There is a likeness of Joseph Campbell as alchemist making the hermetic gesture of "as above so below." On the front of his robe are two trines, facing up and down, and touching at the points. The lower trine contains fire going up; the upper trine bears droplets descending. Atop the top trine are two crowned heads of a solar king and lunar queen facing each other. The tableau depicts my secret theory that alchemy is in reality Tantra Yoga, or rather the form it took when reaching the West in order to prevent its practioners from persecution at the hands of the Judeo-Christian religion, which despised the body and sexuality as invitations to damnation. However, the crowned couple on my cover are in Tantric embrace. He (the masculine trine) is on his knees while she sits astride him. When their union is consummated in the hieros gamos, or sacred marriage, the two trines become a six-pointed star, another symbol of the stone. Above the couple is the Stairway of Planets(seven in number), with King Sol and Queen Luna at opposite penultimate peaks, while at the very top is the product of their union, a dancing Mercury, and above him in the sky , a silver globe embossed w/a golden six-pointed star. Remember the alchemist cannot his goal without his soror(sister). I myself have been intiiated into Tantra and have experience the sacred marriage, but this is not the stuff of New Age soul mates coming together. This marriage cannot be with a flesh and blood person, for then he or she is still a projection of the inneranimus/a. No, this marriage occurs when the upper trine of the conscious mind descends to meet the ascending trine of the unconscious, resulting in a third state which dissolves all pairs of opposites and contradictions of the other two, a hypnopompic or hypnogogic state into which all treasures flow from the unconscious I should know; my last book "The Wind& the Wizard" was basically channeled from my anima by putting the left brain in "park' and letting the right brain (anima) do the driving, a state in which I heard the characters' voices and merely took dictation. Could I have accomplished the Great Work without my soror? No way. Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:36:46 -0400 From: Deanna Herrera To All, I received many informative and interesting replies and am taking some time to reply to those I would like to. I went for a long run and broke my leg while hurdling a fence (unfortunately it was not a metaphorical fence I hurdled, but the kind made out of big molecules) and am having other problems, so please be patient with delayed responses. I have printed out the e-mails and am reading them from my couch. Thank You to all and anyone who did reply to my querries RE: Serpents and symbols Deanna Dr. Deanna Herrera Subject: INNER - Snake spewing out venom From: Mats Winther Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:53:30 +0100 Among the myths of India there is one that parallels the vomiting snake mythologem. It is called "The churning of the sea". I give it here in abbreviated form. Indra had lost his vigour. To restore his strenght the gods followed Vishnu's advice. Vishnu promised that that the snake Vasuki would produce a liquid of immortality. They took the Snake and twined him around mount Mandara and began to churn. The gods were at the tail, and the demons at the head. But as they were churning the mountain began to shake and did great damage to the inhabitants of the ocean. And the heat destroyed the animals and birds in the surroundings. The mountain threatened to break through the earth and destroy it. But the giant turtle got beneath the mountain and became its pivot. The churning went on faster and faster. The snake suffered from his painful labour. Torrents of venom escaped from his jaws and poured down on earth in a vast river and threatened to destroy everything, even the gods. To save the world from destruction, Siva drank the poison. But the poison burnt his throat. In the end the gods had their reward. The sea of venom created, became the sea of milk which engendered many wonderful gods, among them the Moon and Lakshmi, the god of fortune. But first of all came Surabhi, the marvellous cow, mother and nurse of all living things. Comments: the mythologem of the spewing snake seem to be (1) extremely dangerous, (2) procreative on the grand scale. I would appreciate if someone could relay the myth of "Dragon spewing out Jason". I only have references to this myth in my library. Mats Winther Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 04:02:56 +0200 From: Dimitris >From: Mats Winther >I would appreciate if someone could relay the myth of "Dragon spewing out >Jason". I only have references to this myth in my library. I haven't heard any version of the myth where the Dragon spews out Jason. Here's a brief and general account of the myth of Jason: Jason and the 50 Argonauts started a quest for the golden fleece. The fleece was somewhere in Colchis, a place reigned by Aeetes. Jason asked for the Golden Fleece and the king assigned him some tasks that he had to accomplish, in order to get the fleece. First, he was to yoke two bronze leg bulls that spit fire. Then, he had to sow dragon teeth. Warriors sprouted from the teeth, but Jason tricked them, and they killed each other. Medea -Aeetes' daughter- fell in love with Jason and helped him accomplish his assignments, successfuly. Aeetes refused to give Jason the fleece, which was guarded by a sleepless dragon. Medea got the dragon off to sleap, and they stole the Fleece. The sailed with Argo, but Aeetes followed them, so Medea and Jason killed Apsyrtus (Medea's brother and Aeetes' son) and cut his limbs off one by one, thus forcing Aeetes to fall behind as he stopped to pick up each piece...... (to be continued.) Some thoughts: Medea: the female part of Jason(/anima?) The dragon: chaos, nuclear force. Golden Fleece: the secret of reality/the opus of alchemical process/manifesting reality using the secrets of sub-atomic, quantum field. 50 Argonauts: why 50 ? Dimitris P.S. If the myth isn't a myth, then according to some, the story must have occured round 1600 BC. There is a brilliant account and intepretation of the myth in 'Barbara Hand Clow's: Chiron, Llewelyn, 1987, USA'. She relates the myth with the passage from The Age of Taurus (matriatrchy) to the Age of Aries (patriarchy), the balance between animus/anima, the quest for survival, and large scale destruction (I think.) According to her, the 1.600 BC date is part of a vast transpluto planetary cycle. Now, we're on the same point of the cycle, as Jason back in 1.600 BC! Subject: The Serpent on the Cross Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 From: Richard Patz Richard Roberts wrote: >Indeed, Jung tells us, >"among the Ophites, Christ was the serpent." And also, "Mercurius is likened >to the serpent hung on the cross (John3:14) to mention only one of the >numerous parallels." And in his essay on "The Philosophical Tree," he tells >us, "The somewhat unusual allegory of the sword hanging on a tree is almost >certainly an analogy of the serpent hanging on the cross. In St. Ambrose >the 'serpent hung on the wood' is a 'typus Chrsti,' as is the 'brazen >serpent on the cross' in Albertus Magnus. Thank you, Richard. All this talk of crucified serpents has prompted me to re-examine the Figures of Abraham the Jew, with new eyes (as it were): http://www.levity.com/alchemy/flamimages.html http://www.levity.com/alchemy/f_hyglph.html Richard Patz Subject: INNER - Brazen Serpent From: Steve Kalec Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 Our highest spiritual understanding is rooted in that which is the lowest in us and that is the serpent. Numbers 21:8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that everyone that is bitten, when he looked upon shall live. John 3:14, And Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. This to me is a clear reference to Christ and the serpent as being the same source, essence, and power. It is the regenerative primordial subtle energies in almost all teachings. It is the Secret Fire that the alchemists above all seek to accomplish their art. When it is coiled dormant in the pit it is inactive. When through mystical excersise it is aroused and fanned from its embers into flames it becomes an awesome spiritual bioelectrical fiery energy. As it is purified through the inner alchemical methods as it rises to the higher psychic levels it becomes the consuming, life giving, healing, purifying, transmuting, uplifting, everlasting infinite cosmic energy of life. In its ceaseless effort and striving to be is the very source of being itself. It is the Awesome energy and power of the ever generation of universal life. This divine fire in man is his very divine inner Self. The fiery flames of Christ within as the saviour. The fire of the Gods. The pole, tree, or cross is the same thing. It is the body or matter. Serpents on a pole is the Caduceus, still used today as a symbolic emblem of medical centers. The Divine energies infused or cruxcified on matter.Through matter as a vehicle and receptacle this spiritual consciousness evolves and unfolds.Likewise matter is transmuted and uplifted through the unfolding and evolving of this Light within. The Rosy Cross of the Rosicrucians beautifully symbolizes this. The Rose in the center of the Cross represents man's Divine inner higher consciousness unfolding itself as it is cruxcified in his body. The saying and statement reads, " Ad Rosam per crucem, ad crucem per Rosam." To my Rose by way of the cross, to my cross by way of the Rose. Best Regards Steve Kalec Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 From: Peggy What does the serpent symbolize in the Catholic icon of the Blessed Virgin Mary stepping on a serpent? I think this is called "Our Lady of Victory" and IMO is associated with Netzach and Hathor. Thanks, Peggy From: Steve Kalec Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 Peggy wrote > What does the serpent symbolize in the Catholic icon > of the Blessed Virgin Mary stepping on a serpent? > I think this is called "Our Lady of Victory" and IMO > is associated with Netzach and Hathor. From, Manly P Hall's ( The Secret Teachings of all ages ). "The Madona represents the maternal creative mother aspect of Divinity as the highest expression of being. The Christ child always symbolizes wisdom, the virgin Mother, faith. The figure therefore declares that, Wisdom born of Faith , shall redeem the world now encircled by the serpent of evil." This is a theologian view. The Church always enjoyed blaming the serpent or Satan for all our problems as it still does. The infamous scene in the garden of Eden has branded the serpent as evil yet nowhere in the Bible is it refered to as being evil . The Bible says of the serpent in Genesis 3:1 " Now the Serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made " Never is he called evil. In fact it did open the eyes of Adam and Eve. Brought them consciousness, light about themselves. For prior to their encounter they were naked and did not know it. After their encounter they realized that they were naked and became ashamed.This is meaning that consciousness of the Self was born . This is of course all In my humble opinion. Best Regards, Steve Kalec Subject: Serpent/Tree Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 From: Richard Roberts To All: At the risk of being called an heretic by some of those who have been quoting scripture on the evil nature of the serpent and as being explained so clearly in Isa 14:12-13 " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north" from this you will see that to eat the tree indeed "brings down to hell, to the sides of the pit." The point I was making last week was that the writer or writers of genesis had an agenda to render the serpent as evil, in order to grant a special pleading for the new patriarchal god over the divinities that had preceded him. Since I was able to scientifically establish an astronomical precedent for Eve/Serpent/Tree(thru the help of a planetarium), I think it is only fair here to balance the denigration of the serpent w/some of the alternative perspectives on the Eden scene. Indeed, Eric pointed out that in the Sefer Yetzirah that serpent/Satan was not interpreted as evil. The following lines are quoted from my book FROM EDEN TO EROS published in 1985. ...in Gnosticism the diety is Pistis Sophia,*Pistis* the feminine greek for "faith," and *Sophia* feminine Greek for "wisdom." When she breathes on the Abysss, a shadow comes into being beneath the Ogdoad, the starry realm where she reigns. the shadow becomes matter...and assumes the shape of a great beast, lion-like and androgynous, without knowledge of its creation by Sophia.The next step involves the creation of the world, which seems to have been the reason for Sophia's creation of this monster, variously named *Saklas*(Aramaic for fool),*Samael*("blind god" in Aramaic), and *Ialdabaoth*, child of chaos, since he was created from the watery abyss... Originally two Adams are created, one a spiritual essence of Light/Adam (Sophia's creation), the other of dust, that is, of a merely physical body.The "dirty" Adam is Yahweh's creation. Eve now enters the Eden scene in the Gnostic text *On the Origin of the World*: "Sophia sent Zoe, her daughter who is called 'Eve (of Life),' as an instructor in order that she might raise up Adam, in whom there was no soul, so that those whom he would beget might become vessels of the Light...." Sophia creates the serpent in order to instruct Adam and Eve regarding their origins. Sophia, then, is mother to both the serpent and Eve, the "mother of the living." "Then the one who is wiser than all of them...said when you eat from it your mind will be sobered and you will become like god, knowing the distinctions which exist between evil and good men." Richard Roberts From ???@??? Tue May 13 21:33:45 1997 From: schalk Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 Richard Roberts writes: [sc] on which schalk responds: >The point I was making last week was that the writer or writers of genesis >had an agenda to render the serpent as evil, in order to grant a special >pleading for the new patriarchal god over the divinities that had preceded >him. [sc] is this then why all the other writers of the bible followed suit, and render the serpent as evil, including the nt writers? consider this too: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." >Since I was able to scientifically establish an astronomical precedent >for Eve/Serpent/Tree(thru the help of a planetarium), I think it is only >fair here to balance the denigration of the serpent w/some of the >alternative perspectives on the Eden scene. Indeed, Eric pointed out that in >the Sefer Yetzirah that serpent/Satan was not interpreted as evil. [sc] i like to remind you that the image or idea of the serpent or devil is a one of opposition to the God of Truth and Light, and has always been that. why do you choose to be the advocates diabolis? does that not make you represent darkness, and allowing that which can be crystal clear, to be tainted with your interpretation, and then rather becomes a concoction of the truth? >The following lines are quoted from my book FROM EDEN TO EROS published in 1985. [sc] it is of a rare opportunity to be able to comment to a "published book" in a manner like this, not? nevertheless, does the content necessary stand as valid, on a book becoming a published one? >..in Gnosticism the diety is Pistis Sophia,*Pistis* the feminine greek for >"faith," and *Sophia* feminine Greek for "wisdom." When she breathes on the >Abysss, a shadow comes into being beneath the Ogdoad, the starry realm where >she reigns. the shadow becomes matter...and assumes the shape of a great >beast, lion-like and androgynous, without knowledge of its creation by >Sophia.The next step involves the creation of the world, which seems to have >been the reason for Sophia's creation of this monster, variously named >*Saklas*(Aramaic for fool),*Samael*("blind god" in Aramaic), and >*Ialdabaoth*, child of chaos, since he was created from the watery abyss... > >Originally two Adams are created, one a spiritual essence of >Light/Adam (Sophia's creation), the other of dust, that is, of a merely >physical body.The "dirty" Adam is Yahweh's creation. Eve now enters >the Eden scene in the Gnostic text *On the Origin of the World*: >"Sophia sent Zoe, her daughter who is called 'Eve (of Life),' >as an instructor in order that she might raise up Adam, in whom >there was no soul, so that those whom he would beget might become >vessels of the Light...." > >Sophia creates the serpent in order to instruct Adam and Eve regarding their >origins. Sophia, then, is mother to both the serpent and Eve, the "mother of >the living." >"Then the one who is wiser than all of them...said when you eat from it your >mind will be sobered and you will become like god, knowing the distinctions >which exist between evil and good men." [sc] i want to know if you are saying that moses, the author of the creation epic and the writer of the story of the fall of man, needed to tell all of us rather what you are saying in your book, and that his recollection of that all was a concoction, where yours is then the truth? God being as the gnostics, are you thus too, say a female, and this twin of adam, being created by sophia? the simplicity of a truth does not need to be made complicated, and shrouded with myth, when the understanding of that is hidden from the "wise", as Jesus commented : " I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes", and when this happens, will you not agree that this is what is being talked about by obadjah when he says "How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up!"? regards, s From: Jeffrey Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 Dear schalk: Of all the recent postings which have seem to me to take us away from the topic of alchemy, ours have been the most disturbing. This forum is not a Christian bible study forum and I found your exposition of "truth" very offensive. If there is one thing I have learned it is that truth cannot be one, since truth is composed of not only of objective experience, but subjective experience as well. In alchemy "theoria" consists of objective observation of trtansformation)objective can mean in the outer world or in the unconscious world) and subjective interpretation of that phenomena. If Jesus is your spirit of truth that is fine with me, but your assuption that it is the only objective truth is absurd. I wonder why this forum is spending so much time on topics that are only tangentially related to alchemy. As Adam points out, if we get locked into arguments about whether alchemy is tantric or kabbalistic or christian we loose the capacity to get inside alchemy and see what mystery it attempts to depict. And at the risk of repeating myself there are an infinite number of paths, not just one. There is a wonderful sufi concept that though God is one, it has a billion different names. There is one name for each human being, and the task of the mystic is to learn his or her own unique name. The name is not a word, but alivng being, and if the mystic unites in love with his or her own unique name, then later, possibly, they come to learn all the names. Instead of arguing about wehther all collective names are the same, shouldn't we be looking for our own? To me alchemy is a symbolic system of processes and transformations that allow one to come to their own unique truth. Jeff Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 From: Richard Roberts To Schalk: Two days have passed since I was on-line, and since then some have replied on behalf of Jean Dubuis and myself. As i said several months ago in responding to Fundamentalists attacking other members, most of us in this forum have spent a lifetime in esoteric studies, and we are not to be treated like wayward children whose feet must be set back upon the path of "righteousness." I do not read Gnosticism as truth, nor do I the bible, but as mythology, which, however, is not "untruth." But I do not read the bible as history, as you do, for I do not believe--among other things-- in talking serpents, although I have lifted rattlers by the tail from my garden and their tails were most eloquent. I was fortunate in my youth to have met my mentor Joseph Campbell, who awakened me to the fact that humankind did not go from being cave men to Genesis, that before Genesis there was a high culture worshipping a Mother goddess, "for at least seven thousand years before the composition of the Book of G."(Campbell). The books of Marija Gimbutas document this, and Campbell always paid homage to her as the expert on matriarchal religions. As a matter of fact, the last time that I saw him alive in 1987, he had spent the day writing a tribute to her on his first computer. A storm in Honolulu had caused some power problems and he had lost the day's work. After dinner with me, he went home and wrote it again until 3:00am, and then met me for breakfast at 7:00am. He said, "I wanted to do this for her." You ask "why all the other writers of the bible followed suit and rendered the serpent evil?" I think it's pretty clear that when you begin your new religion with the idea that death and the Fall of Man are the result of woman and the serpent you are stuck with that for the rest of your book, unless some of the writers demurred, in which case their buried books do not come to light until 1940(Nag Hammadi). What troubles me, however, is that since "god was a woman" before Genesis, and that her consort was the serpent, "The scriptures we have believed for two thousand years, pertaining to original sin and the inherent evil of women, that have given patriarchy its authoritarian validation for treating women as witches and economic slaves, prove to be a misreading-- probably deliberate-- of an astronomical myth that accurately and yet poetically explained the nature of the cosmos thousands of years before Genesis." (RR) IMHO in life there are two kinds of humans: those who accept another's truth, and therefore live by dogma, and those who seek always their own truth. Galileo merely asked that his inquisitors look through his telescope to prove that the earth went around the sun. They said it was but a trick of the devil. Schalk, I fear you are one whose mind is made up, and who does not want to be confused by facts that contradict your mindset. I have found a home on the Inner-alchemy forum because its members are almost all in the category of individual truth seekers. Although we are from different countries, of different religions and disparate circustances, some once mad and others perhaps too sane too long, we all seek the inner alchemy of transformation, growth, CHANGE. As they say in Ireland, "May you be half an hour in Heaven, before the Devil knows you're dead." Date: Thu, 15 May 97 From: MIKE DICKMAN Schalk Seventeen years ago I left for the last time the country of my birth - a country founded for, and peopled and ruled by Christian fundamentalists for themselves alone, regardless of the demonstrable - and, as fate would strangely have it, singularly 'Christian' - gentleness and wisdom of the ousted 'natives'... I have never been back though I am often invited to do so... The reason is the following: I am not sure that anything I have to say there would ever actually get through. This after thirty-five odd years of intensive study and practice... You may have found the 'Truth', my friend... For myself, along with Socrates, Altus, Rabbi Nachmann and the Firesign Theatre I prefer to think Truth not so much something one 'has' as something to 'do', eternally, humbly, in ever-changing patterns and continuous amazement... From the little I've managed to notice about the Universe, and regardless of who (if anyone at all) 'created' it (She was a lesbian black Jewess wasn't She, God?) seems to bear me out... Perhaps the terms I'm looking for are just the 'infinitely vast' and 'surprising' I always seem to be using... Forgive me... Jean Debuis an alchemist? I think so. But then what would I know? m. |