Astrology and alchemy

From: Aielli, Donald
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 08:31:00 EDT

Does anyone have any thoughts on what role Astrology plays in the Alchemical process?
Also, There has been much discussion about the Alchemical Lab...Can the Universe be considered a lab and if so is it somewhat allegorical and symbolic as opposed to materialistic and concerned with glass test tubes etc...?
Donald

Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 13:20:05 -0500
From: George Randall Leake III
>Does anyone have any thoughts on what role Astrology plays in the Alchemical
>process?

I've heard of numerous instances of alchemists collecting dust and such
'only' during the full moon...

> Can the Universe be considered a lab…

Why not the World (or Universe) as Laboratory? If all is connected
anyway, why not?

g.

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 08:21 NZST
From: Pat Zalewski

Actually Donald I have never done an alchemical experiment without doing a
horoscope first. I have always felt that the main reason for failure when
two or more people do an identical experiment is the astrological timing of
the event. You can do this lightly by simply checking what phase of the Moon
you are in or you can do an electional chart for timing of events. With
astrological programs now on computer this can be done in minutes.

Pat Zalewski

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 20:22:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Charla J. Williams"

Hi Pat,

I'm curious. Do you ever use 'magickal time' where you pretend the
planets are elsewhere than they really are at for the purpose of
a working?

Regards, Charla

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 20:11:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charla J. Williams

The following is excerpted from W.W. Westcott's Preface to the Heptangle Books edition of 'Alchemical Hieroglyphics' by Nicolas Flammel'

"According to 'Penes nos unda Tagi', an anagram of the famous Dr. Espagnet, the Great Work of the Philosophers should be commenced in the time of the Sun in Capricorn the former house of Saturn; the Black stage, or Head of the Crow comes on in about 40 days in Aquarius, the other house of Saturn:Sol coming into Pisces, the Blackness deepens: Sol entering Aries, the separation occurs: Cancer brings on the Whiteness because Luna reigns in White majesty in her house. In Leo, the work of Sol begins; and the glory of Redness is attained in Libra; Scorpio follows, and Saggitarius completes the Work in Jupiter's own dominion."

Date: 01 Nov 95 16:42:42 EST
From: Felix Pieplow

Dear Charla,

On Wed, Oct 25, you quoted from W.W. Westcott's Preface to the Heptangle Books edition of 'Alchemical Hieroglyphics' by Nicolas Flammel:

This would mean that the great work could be done within a year. How is this possible if according to the prophet the work can be done within 822 days and not a day less?
I can see two reasons for this discrepancy:
a)Westcott's great work differs from the prophet's great work.
b)The prophet had lived ca. 1000 years before Espagnet and if the work is at all influenced by the stars, then the constellation at the time of Espagnet's life must have been of some "speedier " character. For now I can only see the Earth's spring point moving towards Aquarius as an acceptable reason. For Uranus who rules Aquarius typically speeds up.
Please, dear Charla or anybody, could you help by a) clarifying what the great work is according to your view and/or by b) giving a hint on the short term and spring point astrological influences on the definiendum?

Thank You, Felix

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 20:20 PST
From: Norm Ryder

If my understanding is correct, there are probably several methods of doing the "Great Work". This in itself has probably added to the confusion of interpreting exactly "how to do the work".
Alchemy mirrors life. There is always more than one way to do something.
As above so below
Norm Ryder

From: "John E. Myers"
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 9:23:03 EST5EDT

Dear Felix,
The great work is the transmutation of the self...body, mind and spirit.
I'm not one for being unclear.

JEM

Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 13:01:14 -0600
From: George Randall Leake III

Felix Pieplow writes-->
The prophet had lived ca. 1000 years before Espagnet and if the work is
>at all influenced by the stars, then the constellation at the time of
>Espagnet's
>life must have been of some "speedier " character. For now I can only see the
>earth's spring point moving towards Aquarius as an acceptable reason. For
>Uranus
>who rules Aquarius typically speeds up.

For what it's worth, astrologers at this time claimed Saturn ruled Aquarius; then things changed in 1781 (the same year Antoine Court de Gebelin published his "Le Jeu des Cartes", the first work speculating on occult aspects of Tarot) when Uranus was discovered

>a) clarifying what the great work is according to your view
You're going to get lots of long answers on that one...my view simply put transmutation of matter through transmutation of the soul

-G.Leake

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 20:22 NZST
From: Pat Zalewski

Well, on the subject of Alchemy, Planetary hours and Astrology, there are times when you can use different systems that will give different results.
Probably the best way is the marrying of your own horoscope with an electional one and look for a window of opportunity. The windows can be days or longer and anytime within that window will help. The aspects hold the Key. A computer programme that will advance a chart by hours or days helps here a hell of a lot. I mean watching the wheel spinning over a specified time-frame until the aspects appear right to you. The best one that I have seen is in the IO Series by Time Cycles Research for Macs. Also if you are using herbs or plants then do the same thing and work the correct picking time. If you want to see the magick side of alchemy on plant contact see 'Herbs in Magick and Alchemy' by Chris Zalewski. Prism Press. Appendix Four page 137-147. It may not be your thing but it does work for Chris and I.

Pat Zalewski

From: Aielli, Donald
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 15:17:00 EDT

I agree there are many ways to approach alchemical work and what I really wonder is what the secret code is that unlocks the knowledge of the planetary involvement is, i.e., how is it that the planets and spheres, such as the moon, effect life on earth so drastically? I know Astrology has the answers to these questions but that is a lifetime{or several lifetimes} worth of study in itself. There is no royal road to wisdom is there!Is it due to the magnetic fields generated by these spheres that effect us so greatly?
Or, are these spheres power points for this end of the Galaxy?

Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 16:28:35 -0500
From: George Randall Leake III

This gets me thinking a bit of Foucault's Pendulum and ley lines...what about magnetic fields in the Earth or internal points of power (external being the planetary and other astral bodies)...then what about more subtle forces at the quantum level or "supernatural" level of reality...levels most of us cannot perceive naturally or are not programmed properly...not that I am the sage who knows all, this just seems the story they tell...am I mistaken, or did Chinese alchemists/astrologers address these questions more eloquently?
geo

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:19:06 -0500
From: George Randall Leake III

>What do you make of the lack of Astrological reference in the Alchemical texts

One answer for the obscurity of texts besides more obvious ones like hiding out from the inquisition and the like Jung and others refer to...along the lines of the arcana mundi are not for the immature mind.