Alchemy Forum 0701-0750

From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 701-750.
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Mon Apr 15 19:56:52 1996
Subject: 0701 20th Century alchemists
From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 11:46:12 -0500

*Pat--I wonder if you're taking the eternal life legend a little too literally?

>From: Pat Zalewski
>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 12:17 NZST
>
>I think that if somone had made the stone the first thing he or she would
>have done was test it to see if it was the stone. The only person left to
>test it on without the probability of doing harm (in case it was not the
>stone) is the creator. If the alchemist tested it on him/herself then they
>would have to do it over a period of time and that test, if positive would
>produce good physical results if the all the concepts associcated to the
>stone that have been bandied about are correct. A youthful appearance
>(includinga good head of hair if you are bald) would be one. Unfortunately
>though some of the best geniuses of say music were the worst type of people.
>I am yet unsure about the alchemist who produces the stone to be of high
>spiritual worth. I have seen too many people produce a vertible miracle l in
>their respective chosen fields ,and yet even to a dumbdcluck, their
>evolvement on the spiritual plane appeared little. Check out some of the
>behaviour of our best rock musicians who live hard and some of the beautiful
>gems they have produced. Painters are yet another field where a real
>ethereal quality comes through but the person in many instances the person
>who creates this type of effect should have been locked up. I have seen the
>opposite also. Many people who would be a model to live by end up creating
>nothing significant at all (including alchemists) again another paradox.
>
>Pat zalewski

Mon Apr 15 19:57:04 1996
Subject: 0702 Growing trees
From: al4302
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:49:43 +0100

Do you beleive everything you read, do you think that is
possible to grow a alchemical tree without the alchemy.
If this were so it would not be an alchemical tree but
a metal tree and any chemist would be able to produce it.
Do you not think that is one of many applications of the
our stone extended life being another.
Call me a romantic be if what you suggest is true then
why can't I buy one?

>From: Gilbert Arnold
>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 20:58:58 -0400
>
>
>There is at least 3 ways to "grow trees" in the laboratory that I am aware of
>that do not require a "Philosopher's Stone" to do so. To whoever is
>interested, I would suggest a review of the "Heaven of the Philosopher's",
>the RAM version, the metallic PON course and a copy of John French's Art
>of distillation along with Newton's Clavis. It is a long painfull work, and in
>my opinion, unless you are very skilled at not getting poisoned by mercury
>fumes, not worth the trouble. Please do not ingest the result. According to
>the "Heaven of the Philosopher's it is only yet another seed. I also recall
>that someone mentioned to me a way to do a similar thing with Iron.

Mon Apr 15 19:57:13 1996
Subject: 0703 Twentieth Century Alchemy
From: al4302
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:49:55 +0100

Yes, it can be used by anyone for projection
or growing trees ect but these applications are
not medical and do not requre ingestion. The
Powder, Tincture, Elixir, Stone what ever you call
these things they are all the same, one substance.
I think that many people are confused by the number
of materials they need, I feel that in fact very few
are needed and there are many names for the same thing.
Perhaps you are thinking of the Red & White powder used
by the likes of Dee & Kelly. This was again the same thing
but before it had been re-worked into the final opus.

>From: Jerry Bujas
>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 22:36:36 -0500
>
>
>> From: al4302
>> If Fulcanelli really was someone other than Champagne and
>> >yet survives, as some care to believe, it's difficult to understand
>> >how he could have let all his old friends and colleagues die when he
>> >had the power to save them.
>> >-Patrick
>>
>> The tincture is only medicine for the one who makes it.
>>
>
> This is an interesting comment. I would like to know your opinion
> on whether someone could use someone else's powder to carry out
> the transmutation. I understand that only an initiate can make
> the Stone, but anyone else can use it for the projection, if he
> knows how, as many reports testify. Why should the properties
> of the tincutre be so radically different from the powder?
> Could you please elaborate?
>
> jerry@interlog.com

Mon Apr 15 19:57:29 1996
Subject: 0704 Principle- The World is Mental via Imagination
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 13:42:27 -0400
From: photopro

Here is a meditative essay on one aspect of the Principle that the
World is Mental (The Kybalion- by three Initiates is a book sold by
BOTA that lays out the 7 principles that rule the Universe. Knowing
these and appying them in your way to your work can be very magical.)
THIS MAY NOT SEEM ALCHEMICAL TO ALL PARTICIPANTS OF THIS FORUM BUT IT
IS A CLUE TO SUCCESS IN YOUR WORK. WISA

Meditation"THE WORLD IS MENTAL"...Concentration & Imagination

Imagination, the key to the Universe. Anything we can imagine, we can
be or *manifest* as a projection of the self.

But like the Genie's three wishes, one must beware of what is "desired".
Remember the thoughtful saying that goes something like this;
"Beware of what you wish for, you just might get it."

For what if what we think we need or want is just the opposite of our
greatest good? What if we are in a state of non-developed potential and
somewhat ignorant of true reality and its values? Most of us are, to
one degree or another. So WHO knows what is best and WHO do we have to
become to BE that wise?

What do I mean when I say we can manifest things, situations,
experiences here on Earth? Are we Magicians? Perhaps we are! We are!!!
Is that "good?" Possibly yes, and equally possibly, no. It depends on
whether we know what we are doing. Most do not even when they believe
they do. Who is wise? If I'm not, do I know it? When I am, will I know
it? So if I can do, be, manifest...shall I do so?

For Universal Purpose, for TRUTH itself, I can do RITUAL ACTIONS OUT OF
A STATE OF BALANCE CALLED MEDITATION (also called COMMUNION) whereupon
I call upon the HIGHER SELF to intermediate. I can concentrate, focus
in on, give my undivided attention to a vision of great order and
potential for all upon Earth and start from where I'm at at the moment.
And even though in some cases where the vision is just a step up along
the way or is one that includes a great wealth of
particularities/detail to bring together...the PURPOSE would be
Universal and the MAGUS would be WHITE (as in: The White Brotherhood/as
in High Magic). In general, the ritual action is taken by a person, the
miracle is accomplished by ABOVE, including the "details" of a
reconfiguration of life experience , revelation, or transcendence.

FORGIVENESS is the giving up of limited perspective? experience,
detail, worldly concentrations to a HIGHER SELF. This releases you, it
lifts off the so-called burdens of life which may have seemed to be
weighty. It requires TRUST. It requires FAITH to FORGIVE anything or
anyone. It does not mean that someone evil will stand there and be
allowed to beat you into the ground time and time again. It means that
you TRUST THE UNIVERSE to sustain and support you and foundation the
miracles that will configure your life, circumstance and your very
Self. Therefore, you are able to FORGIVE YOURSELF UP.

So you can use your IMAGINATION AND CONCENTRATE and envision the Best
that is for yourself and all Mankind. You can and should take the
necessary realistic ( which are also ritual steps) that are needed to
make your greatest fine dreams of quality for all to come into being
(manifestation). However, never forget that while you are only human
and even into the trans-human degrees of advancement, it is not you
that makes the miracle actually occur. You are the receptor for the
PRIMAL WILL TO GOOD, AND THE PROJECTOR OF THAT WILL, for you have
affirmed that you are willing to be this servant of THE ONE WHO IS ABLE
TO BE AND DO ALL THERE IS AND IS ALL-NO-THING.

"THE PATTERN ON THE THRESTLEBOARD"

"THIS IS THE TRUTH ABOUT THE SELF

O. ALL THE POWER THAT EVER WAS OR WILL BE IS HERE NOW.

1. I AM A CENTER OF EXPRESSION FOR THE PRIMAL WILL-TO-GOOD WHICH
ETERNALLY CREATES AND SUSTAINS THE UNIVERSE.

2. THROUGH ME ITS UNFAILING WISDOM TAKES FORM IN THOUGHT AND WORD.

3. FILLED WITH UNDERSTANDING OF ITS PERFECT LAW, I AM GUIDED, MOMENT BY
MOMENT, ALONG THE PATH OF LIBERATION .

4. FROM THE EXHAUSTLESS RICHES OF ITS LIMITLESS SUBSTANCE, I DRAW ALL
THINGS NEEDFUL, BOTH SPIRITUAL AND MATERIAL.

5,I RECOGNIZE THE MANIFESTATION OF THE UNDEVIATING JUSTICE IN ALL THE
CIRCUMSTANCES OF MY LIFE.

6. IN ALL THINGS, GREAT AND SMALL, I SEE THE BEAUTY OF THE DIVINE
EXPRESSION

7. LIVING FROM THAT WILL, SUPPORTED BY ITS UNFAILING WISDOM AND
UNDERSTANDING, MINE IS THE VICTORIOUS LIFE.

8. I LOOK FORWARD WITH CONFIDENCE TO THE PERFECT REALIZATION OF THE
ETERNAL SPLENDOR OF THE LIMITLESS LIGHT.

9. IN THOUGHT AND WORD AND DEED, I REST MY LIFE UPON THE SURE
FOUNDATION OF ETERNAL BEING.

10. THE KINGDOM OF SPIRTT IS EMBODIED IN MY FLESH."

DISCOVER YOURSELF, KNOW THYSELF, BE WISE.

START BY MEDITATING THE TRUTH OF THIS TRESTLEBOARD STEP BY STEP, ONE BY
ONE , AND ALL AS ONE.

The correspondences are to YOU, YOUR life, The Tree of Life which
includes the 32 Paths of Return, numbers, astrology, colors, sounds,
The Tarot cards in their true sense of being a pictorial Bible, The
Language of the Flame, Truth Principles upon which the Universe is
based...and more; much more including the descent and ascent of FORCE
nut of the ONE which includes The CHRIST PRINCIPLE of SALVATION.
TRANSFIGURATION and ASCENSION (RETURN)...UNITY. None of this in the
dogmatic sense...but the Mystical/Spiritual inner sense)

So we can do magic. What do we want to do? Think about it. The pride of
"accomplishment" should not deter you from the simple task of your
life, which is the rising of consciousness on the planes of the TREE OF
LIFE. When we notice it with excitement" that there is POWER here and
now, should we swell with pride and greed and want to be conquerer of
the world? That temptation has deterred many a learned person from
going higher in WISDOM. Too often we fool ourselves as we begin to
protect vested interests and deny the ultimate RICHNESS for the
temporary one or the thrill of FORCE AND POWER. Forget not, that there
is a payment (the balancing compensation for anything we "get". There
is always payment, nothing is free that is on the poles (extremes).
Everything is freedom that is reconciled and balanced in the middle
column.

Affirmation becomes a way of life. One gets used to self-valuation in
the positive sense. Ultimately, there in no judgment of your self but
by yourself - and you know you well. What will you say at that cruciaI
moment * I Am Valuable*. I am Worthy.
I AM.

If you have procrastinated, has that become a habit? If you have
grabbed power and material wealth at the cost of principle and self
respect, has that become a habit? If you think of yourself as a dark,
grasping, manipulative person, will you have the time to rearrange your
perspective in the MOMENT OF TRUTH?

Do it now. Do it always. Love thyself and work for the GREATER
UNIVERSAL GOOD OF MANKIND. BE MANKIND. Be worthy of your own
"judgment". Affirm your value constantly. Give yourself good reason for
doing so. Therefore, when you envision, concentrate, take ritual steps
and Imagine for the materialisation of your desired vision...let it be
a UNIVERSAL VISION. IET IT BE AN AFFIRMATION OF TRANSCENDENT FAITH. AN
ENLIGHTENMENT FOR MANKIND and let it be done through and for you by
your HIGHER SFLF. Clear, humble 5 receptive are you. Then, Blessed.

This is not the small particulars of small and petty dreams of small
personalities, but the great dreams of Higher Esoteric TRANSCENDENTAL
PERSONAS.

Well Being brings about WELL BEING.

AMEN

By the way, please remember that meditation/balance can not be forced.
Don't try. Relax, trust and give up. Yes, give your self up to your own
Higher Consciousness (Self), for ULTIMATELY, Who can you trust more or
better than your SELF?

LOVE THYSELF WELL, THERE IS NO OTHER.
WISA

Tue Apr 16 10:35:56 1996
Subject: 0705 The stone or not the stone
From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 07:29 NZST

>I do not think that the stone only works on the creator. A good example of
why is to look at the various stages of the stone in transmuting metal into
gold. There are numerous examples throughout history where a person has
taken a powder (either given or stolen or found) and made gold from it yet
this person did not make the powder. If the powder (stone) can be used to
transmute lead into gold by anyone with some alchemcial knowledge, then to
extrapolate, the same concept would apply to the medicinal side of things.
So I don't buy into one stone only for its creator.
Also I would still like some confirmation about Cochrens death. Was it in
the blitz as Beat said or was it later.

Pat zalewski

Tue Apr 16 10:36:10 1996
Subject: 0706 20th Century Alchemy
From: calhhh
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 15:02:22 -0400

al 4302 stated on his message 0668 :

>The tincture is only medicine for the one who makes it.

I tend to agree with the thought that The Tincture, which I
understood to mean the Elixir that prolongs life, would only act
upon who made it (but is just my unsubstantiated feeling ...).
However since you mention it much more matter of factly,
I would sincerely appreciate additional comments, as to why you
think this is so.

As I understand it, starting with the White Stone it already
has medicinal value for third parties beyond the operator.
Paracelsus reports that the White Stone (LUNA) among other
things cures leprosy. Therefore, starting from that point onward
the Stone seems to be able to be used to cure others. However
it has been mentioned that the QUINTESSENCE (Great Elixir),
should only be ingested by the Operator (alchemist), because
of the tremendous consequences/changes that irreversably it may
bring about.

I think would be of A PRACTICAL USE FOR THIS FORUM, as I
requested before, to discuss and then try to make an homogeneous
definition of the different terms associated with the
Stone (Elixir, White/Red Stone, Quintessence, etc.), and the
different views as to the level of purification of each of the
stages, and what their scope of action would be.

In this manner we all would have the same frame of reference when
discussing or even reading here about these subject areas. Even though
we all may not have the same viewpoint, it would be useful to develop
this Forum's own alchemical language definitions, just for the purposes
of thoughts exchange. So besides definitions on Dom Pernety's, Rolandus,
and many others, lets workout our own reference frame. In any case, a well
intended proposal .... Lets have one of the more experienced members
give the first set of definitions and start from there ...

By the way, I want to specially thank Patrick for the well redacted
and thoughtful resume on Fulcanelli. Others views could be included,
but already this is the first review posted on a 20th century alchemist.
IT WOULD BE GREAT, if others also present the resumes and available
information about other 20th century alchemists and their work, so we
may start developing the database on what works have been and are being
conducted. Adam McLean's offer about the possibility of posting it on the
Alchemical Virtual Library once accomplished and reviewed was most
generous and would be of great service to everyone interested on Alchemy.

Best Regards,

ORCIS
calhhh@mail.pananet.com

"MONTES FIDES MOVETO"

Tue Apr 16 10:36:18 1996
Subject: 0707 The hidden Sun- and Moonlight
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 15 Apr 96 15:24:48 EDT

In alchemy the polarity of the sun and the moon arises again and again. The
metallic gold and silver can be understood by it, but also the male or
philosophical sulphur and the feminine mercury as universal menstruum. About
such meanings I would not like to speak now. In the following I would like to
consider more the energetic background of the polarity of the sun and the moon.
Namely there are the concealed energies - first and foremost the magnetic and
electric fluid - which play an important role in practical alchemy.

The electric fluid is associated with the sun, the magnetic fluid with the moon.
How does it be with the practical application of these energies?

Karl baron of Reichenbach has ascertained in his work with sensitives, that the
quality of the sunlight and the moonlight is different. The both fluids are
mediated by both celestial objects. While the sun sends out the electric fluid,
the moonlight reflects the magnetic fluid. During the day the fluid of the sun
arrives in the upper areas of the earthly atmosphere. Though the sunlight
streams on the earth and is directly perceptible on the earth's surface, the
corresponding fluid lingers - the positive side of the universal mercury - due
to its fiery volatility in the upper spheres of the atmosphere. The getting
through the atmosphere requires both some time as well as the help of the cool
heavy lunar od. Therefore the solar fluid arrives first on the earth's surface
during the night, when the radiation ot the cool moon prevails.

During the night the moonlight just as arrives in the upper areas of the
atmosphere and affects the earth's surface first in the morning and during the
day. Only in this way the observation of Reichenbach can be explained as far as
goes the od. Sensitives namely have ascertained, that during the day the blue od
(magnetic fluid) is visible, while during the night the red od (electric fluid)
prevails. This alleged contradiction with the rhythm of sun and moon in the sky
can be explained by the temporal delay due to the passage of the fluids through
the atmosphere.

One may say therefore, that the effect of the both fluids correlates on the
earth's surface timewise with the body in the sky, which radiates the
counterprinciple. This observation is very important for practical alchemy. For
one would like to catch the solar od, so must be worked during the night. If
against it one would like to get hold of the lunar od, so the work has to result
in the daytime, especially in the morning. This view contradicts one would
logically expect.

Beside that one may not forget, that matter itself as binding matrix has the
fluids in it. In so far as one is trying to release the bound fluids, one does
not need to pay attention on the course of day. Thus all partial processes of
the preparatory work are not bound to a certain time. You can accomplish these
works, when you want.

In the rework or when loading a suitable condenser with the both fluids
originating from the cosmos, the point in time is important against it. If one
would like to increasingly load a matter with the positive fluid, so it is to be
exposed to the free night sky, but to hold covered or locked during the day.
Conversely the same is valid for the negative fluid.

I have the impression that the most present alchemists do not know this
difference altogether, never mind consider it in reality. Therefore I have
written this contribution. Indeed I would like to emphasize: The above-mentioned
presents only the general behavior of the both fluids. If one knows however this
behavior, so can he accomplish more differentiated experiments in his own lab.

If other members can take their personal stand from practical experience to the
above-mentioned remarks, so corresponding contributions would surely be welcome
to all members of the forum.

Lapis

"Alterius non sit, qui suus esse potest." (Paracelsus)
(Be no other's servant, if you can be yours own master.)

Tue Apr 16 10:36:27 1996
Subject: 0708 The stone or not the stone
From: calhhh
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 15:02:31 -0400

Pat Zalewski wrote :

> Now I am sick of hearing of people who have almost got the
> stone or in the last steps of it. I have heard that since I first
> started studying alchemy. When talking of the stone you always
> get the attitude of`"I know somone who has it and I am not going
> to tell you his or her name'concept"

> That usually means someone is deluding themselves. If a person
> claims to have the stone and is not the youthful looking hermes
> we expect from someone taking it, then there is more than a good
> chance that that person is either lying or in delusion states of
> awareness.

I see your point that it appears not to be a conclusive, rational,
"proven beyond any doubt" type of record showing the definite
existence of the Great Elixir or Tincture that restores and prolongs
Life. On the other hand lets consider that through the ages, for
thousands of years, there have been reports about it even from people
of certain standing, that otherwise have made important
contributions to humanity. As I have said before, I agree that most
of the people that go around saying how illuminated they are, and
even those that bout about their obtainment of the Stone have no
idea of what they are talking about, either consciously or not. But
I truly believe deep in my heart that there are those that truly
have this knowledge, because in itself is the knowledge of Nature,
and Nature is all around it trying to show us its Key. Unfortunately
like myself, most still have not been able to decipher it ...

Also, please consider the following :

Lets suppose for a moment that by the grace of God you would
discover the path that would take you to the obtainment of the
Stone, and even of the Elixir. Would you openly present it to
the World ? What would happen when thousands of people would
try to contact you requesting it to be healed ? Besides, if we
conclude that the Stone is not merely the result of a chemical
mixture/procedure of some sort, but the by-product of a physical
and spiritual process that could not be mass produced by the
alchemist, how would you choose on whom you would use it or not ?

What do you think would be the position of the Pharmaceutical Corporations
and of the Public/Government officials towards you
and your research ? How many billions are related to the business
of the Health Care Industries ? I think the response would be
very similar as it would happen if someone would discover how
to draw energy from the air (free energy). Most probably the
big petroleum corporations would not like you too much,
bringing as a consequence that your life would not be worth a
dime ... Lets remember what happened to people like Reich,
Puharich, Keely, De Moray, and many others that worked with
certain success within the field of free energy devices ....
They were all persecuted in one way or other ! (I refer you
to many books on the subject on the BORDERLAND SCIENCE
RESEARCH FOUNDATION files (http://www.asis.com/bsrf)

No, I am not a fanatic in any way nor do I see persecutions
or conspirations all around me, but such is the way our
system works. The point I am trying to bring across is
that if a person comes to that crossingpoint in life, he
has a lot of thinking to do before taking a most personal
and difficult decision of telling someone about it, including
even his close friends and family. Most people I know, that
are indeed experts on anything, are usually the most humble
people there are ... I guess probably because inside themselves
they are certain of what they truly know. I imagine in the
case of a True Adept, this humbleness should increase even
more, because he should be aware that in his work he did not
truly CREATED anything but was just a collaborator of Nature.
So I am sure their acts would not be oriented towards expecting
someone to say WOW WHAT AN ALCHEMIST !

Where there is light, there is shadow, but among the ugliness,
sarcasm, and deception, there is always good, love, and truth.
Surely is not as common, but I feel this should not make us
sick or disenchanted, since all of us with our truths and our
lies, virtues and defects, are in the same path of evolution.

I do believe that as al4302 mentioned in a previous post,
that nowadays there are ADEPTS as there always have been.
I feel that if someone would someday obtain this sacred
knowledge, at the very least they would not like it to be
lost, so would try to teach at the minimum (Bacstrom's style)
a couple of disciples that they would feel are worthy and well
intended ... It is easy to judge others, but it would better
to try to put oneself in that position and try to evaluate all
the pertinent considerations. In my opinion this type of
knowledge would engender a tremendous responsability with,
as Rawn Clark mentioned, even Karmatic considerations involved ..

So, for my part, when I mentioned a comment about Simon H.,
I only did it with the thought of sharing the availability
of this information and about his books, and only after
having requested during my visit to Europe,and obtained their
permission to make this reference. I have made no claims as to
their work; and even if I had definite proof of their results
I would not be at liberty to say it unless those were their
express wishes, for reasons that could only be pertaining to
them, and as a result of exercising their own free will.

al4302 said : It is an unlucky alchemist that becomes known.
If by Alchemist, he meant an ADEPT, I would agree with this
statement on 99% of the cases. The exception would be those
cases when this Adept might feel that he has a particular work
to accomplish that would justify such a decision to become
known. Perhaps the special times we live in, could justify
that type of decision, but that is another subject all together.

All of us, have an inaliable right to our own side of the
truth, however wrong we may be ... It is based on this thought
that my comments are based, with deepest respect to Pat and other
members views.

LOVE to all,

ORCIS
calhhh@mail.pananet.com

"MONTES FIDES MOVETO"

Tue Apr 16 10:36:39 1996
Subject: 0709 Alchemists Through The Ages-A.E.Waite
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 23:49:13 -0400
From: photopro

From:OISPEGGY
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 10:03:00 -0500 (EST)

Pat Zalewski:
>Many people who would be a model to live by end up creating
>nothing significant at all (including alchemists) again another paradox.

Maybe this shows that being is more important than creating?

Regards,

- Peggy -

Re: Alchemists thru the Ages.
A.E.Waite wrote "Alchemists Through the Ages".Rudolf Steiner
Publications NY 1970 paperback. Introduction by Paul M. Allen. The
INtroductory Essay would answer Yes to your question but he covers
history and pros and cons of Alchemy. Very INteresting and an easy read
if you can get your hands on it. Waite himnself a very learned man,
Adept at all he does, explains many aspects of this art and answers
many of the questions arising in this Forum. Wisa

Tue Apr 16 10:36:49 1996
Subject: 0710 Opus Magnum & Youthening
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 00:10:28 -0400
From: photopro

>From: OISPEGGY
>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:43:29 -0500 (EST)
>
>In regard to what the stone does or doesn't do (assuming it
>does something). Perhaps it has a positive effect on health,
>and prolongs life, but does not fully restore youth or avoid
>death. This would make it even more difficult to say who
>did or did not have it. Maybe a person who lives until 85
>took the stone and without it would have died at 60. That
>sort of thing.
>Let's face it, those who do know will not say, so we each have
>to discover this (or try to) ourselves.
>
>Regards,
>- Peggy -

There is a teaching about "youthening" in the Great Work. The Adept
will youthen as s/he advances in The Work. Wholeness and healing takes
place in the body as well as in the "Spirtual aspects of the Adept.
Age will show in i.e. wrinkles and grey hair for example but health and
vitality will be there and the even greater "Strength". Sort of like
Merlin The Magician guarding Arthur or marrying the younger woman and
being able. Perhaps by the Law of Correspondence we can assume that the
stone might work in this way. Healing and immortality.

Along the path of The Great Work comes a state of a High degree of
Adeptship or even Mastership seen in Key 17 The Star. This is
interesting because this also comes with enlightenment and who one
might be with attainment of the Stone.

The Star Tarot Key is Isis Uranus ( another form of Venus). Here she is
the Wise Woman. In this Key we see a young woman - but teaching informs
us that if we saw her (Isis Uranus) we wouldn't recognize her on the
street. She might be in the form of an old woman or man or some figure
that we just wouldn't notice.. This is a form of invisibility. Peggy is
so right. Those who know do not say or tell directly but there are
teachers who will speed an aspirant on the way. Seed them.

Tue Apr 16 10:36:58 1996
Subject: 0711 The philosophers Stone
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 00:29:27 -0400
From: photopro

>From: Jason Johns
>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 02:16:53 PDT
>
>Just out of curiousity, has anyone though what the "Eternal Life" the
>Philosophers Stone really is???
>Perhaps it does not mean physical life?

Jason my understanding is that ultimately transcendence will occur and that Being will ascend with consciousness into a dimension that we can not (as we are now) understand. It is a form of Immortality and a reunion with the Highest of Force/Energy/G-d w
ant. Identity and perspective form your path.And if you are an Alchemist, your work and possible success(for failure has it's very important building blocks and lessons too.
The Adept works toward Freedom and the Master who attains the Golden body (The Stone/the Elixir)at one point gives it up for an even higher state of Being. Nobody really knows where Moses' body is/nor Shakespeares.Where is Jesus body? Can anyone tell me
Wisa

Tue Apr 16 10:37:12 1996
Subject: 0712 Using another's powder
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 00:37:55 -0400
From: photopro

In Alchemists through the Ages, A.E. Waite talks about John Dee and
Edward Kelly using another chemists white powder successfully. It
brought him temporary wealth and overall greater problems.
Reconciliation being what it is.But someone a short while back had
raised the question of weather someone could do this and again it seems
the answer is yes with conditions.
Wisa

Tue Apr 16 10:37:32 1996
Subject: 0713 The stone or not the stone
From: Aholibamah
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:28:49 -0700

Sounds like sour grapes to me, Pat!

The stone gives the truth of truths and the full
perspective of one's incarnation and purpose.

If your way is to serve silently among the invisible
then you will do so, if it is better to be re-issued
as a revised and updated edition, then you will do so.
The relevent notion, is 'to go' and be so.

The stone acceeds to the direct continuity of consciousness
which our mystery traditions so woefully lack,
excepting by means of lateral transmission.

You do not die,
which for some people may be a fate worse than death itself;
it's only the beginning. but becomes pointless unless you
can achieve continuity.

What is taught in literal tradition is but an outward symbol
of the inward movement. Whatever is an inward movement
must necessarily have a physical manifestation. To miet out
new ritual or dogma without asking: what this really means
and how it can be practically applied is to admit that the effort
is really a just a sham.

If it raises more questions than provides answers,
than you are no better off than sinking back into materialism.

The power you seek is the power by which you seek.

Case in point: Enochian is, among other things, a treatise
on the occult nature of light. The fact that the physical vessal
leaks does not mean it cannot be repaired or filled faster than
it is emptied whilst maintaining its integrity.

Where there is charge, rest assured the mercury is at hand,
though it responds to mind, it cannot be held. Its nature is neutral
and conglomerating, but when decomposed evinces charge and/or light.

The work of Reichenbach does show how sound can precipitate
components by intoned note. Another, Reich, explored the principles of
its concentration, progation and extention to affect macroscopic weather.
This is the light, from the light of the sun, the light which shineth in
darkness,
'The fire within'. If it were not so, there would be no need for so many of
them
to be atop the elemental tablets.

The best place to hide a secret, is in plain sight.

Tue Apr 16 10:37:41 1996
Subject: 0714 Growing trees
From: Russ House
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 22:27:19 -0400

Regarding the growing of metallic trees through chemical means...

As Gilbert stated, these processes can be found in the metallic lessons of
The Philosophers of Nature, the Coelum Philosophorum of Ulstadius, and in
other places. These speak of a tree that is grown to obtain certain
metallic fruits (or seeds, if you will) to be replanted in a proper metallic
soil. This is one of the ways of "animated mercury" that appears in many
historical alchemical works.

It is true that these trees are grown in the alchemist's oven, but there are
indeed trees that can be grown by chemical means. References can be found
in issues 9 and 18 of The Hermetic Journal published by Adam McLean. In
issue 9, Adam experimented along the lines suggested in the article
"Palingenesis" by Kenneth Rayner Johnson. (This article also appears in
issue 9. Here, an illustration from an 18th Century work by Lemery shows
trees of iron.)

This process is one which can be repeated, and which produces interesting
and beautiful results. I will not repeat the article and experiment here in
detail, as they are copyrighted by our host It is sufficient to say that
they are based on adding metallic mercury very slowly to a 5 to 10% solution
of silver nitrate. The mercury (20 grams in all) is introduced to a clear
solution containing 5 to 10 grams of silver nitrate in 100 ml of water.
This is done with all substances at room temperature. This should be done
using a very steady setup, such as a flask stand, as any vibration disturbs
the growth of the crystalline 'trees'. The trees develop almost immediately.

In issue 18, Adam refines the process with additional information, and
indicates that trees can be grown using similar methods from the salts of
gold, tin, lead, and some other metals, in addition to silver. A method of
using silica gel to help preserve the delicate forms as they develop is also
explained.

I will caution anyone experimenting with metallic mercury that it is toxic,
and creates poisonous vapors at room temperature. It is important to store
mercury in sealed containers. Water that has been in contact with mercury
can form even *more* toxic compounds over time, such as methyl mercury!! If
you decide to do the experiment, pour the mercury into your flask over a
deep bowl that can contain any accidental spills. It is not practical to
pick up any amount of mercury in a dropper or pipette because of its great
density. NEVER use a vacuum cleaner to pick up mercury spills!! It just
puts mercury vapors in the air.

As a public service, I will email anyone who requests it an article on
safety with mercury that I wrote for the P.O.N. Please send your request to
alchemy@mcs.com

Regards,

Russ House

====================================
Courses in Alchemy * Qabala * Esoteric Studies
The Philosophers of Nature
http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/ email: alchemy@mcs.com
====================================
"Thou, Nature, art my Goddess. To thy law my services are bound."
-- Shakespeare (King Lear)

Tue Apr 16 17:21:53 1996
Subject: 0715 Alchemy - Golden Dawn Statement
From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 18:38 NZST

>From: George Randall Leake III
>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 10:43:25 -0500
>
>Pat--wouldn't you say that a vital influence of Alchemy in the Golden
>Dawn and its various offshoots is the use of its symbolism/inconographic
>dimension?
>-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu

Up're probably right up to a point george, but I tend to see things in in
multi levels and one of my mainstay belief structures is outlined by Michael
Talbot's Holographic Universe (Grafton Books) I have mentioned this book
before and if you digest it George, possible the whole concept of magic can
be explained. The Theory behind it is still evolotionary and the laws of
Physics are really bent out of shape because of it. The same thing can be
applied to alchemical theory in imagery. Have a good read of it george and
after that I would be glad swap concepts. I am surpised that alchemists do
not start investigating talbot's theories as well, for the explantion of the
stone and its underlying concepts can be readily explained in a more
coherent manner.

Pat zalewski

Tue Apr 16 17:22:02 1996
Subject: 0716 Solazaref
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 11:45:30 +0200
From: Ingo

Dears Adam and the others,

I recently got a contact with M. Solazaref, who lives in France, at Teilhede
(Auvergne) in an little castle named "La Tour Serviat".
He founded a "Filiation" with operational (i.e. Alchemical) branches in
Italy and Portugal.
He gave me the following message for the Forum, to which I can add the
complete bibliography of his works.
(I beg your pardon for the lack of French diacritics).

"Trop souvent notre ideal colore un personnage jusqu'a la caricature et la
realite devient fiction de bandes dessinees.
Avec Solazaref, la fiction est reelle ; plus vif et plus inssaisissable, tu
meurs.

Son signalement?
Deux metres de haut et un de large, le quintal appuye ; tireur d'elite et
potier maniaque ; grand amoureux de la nature.

Ou le rencontrer?
Aupres des fours rougeoyants ; sur sa HD trafiquee par monts et par vaux ;
pres de son ami brasseur la coupe pleine de biere moussue ; lors d'une
exposition d'Alchimie et parfois meme aupres des siens, au chateau, tel un
cyclone rendant visite a son ile preferee.

Signes distinctifs:
Les formules de l'Oeuvre sont tatouees sur son corps et il chante ses reves
sur son accordeon..."

Solazaref
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

COMPLETE BIBLIOGRAPHY OF THE SOLAZAREF FILIATION

1. Du nettoyage des ecuries d'Augias : Tome 1 / Les Incorruptibles
(Filiation Solazaref). - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de science, 1983

2. Materiel de Chymie a l'usage des plus necessaires preparations de
Philosophie : catalogue descriptif accompagne de photographies et de figures
explicatives. - Clermont-Ferrand, Imprimerie Paul Couty, 1984. - [p. 28]

3. Introitus ad Philosophorum Lapidem / Solazaref. - [s.l.], Chez l'auteur,
1984. - p. 416. - ISBN 2-9500375-0-X

4. Tempete chymique : face a l'Athanor aujourd'hui: une serie limitee de
cahiers d'alchimie : une reponse traditionnelle concrete aux questions de ce
temps : deuxieme cahier, Careme 1985. - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de
science, 1984. - p. 108. - ISBN 2-905543-02-7

5. L'assation philosophique en voie seche / Solazaref. - Teilhede, Editions
aux amoureux de science, 1985. - p. vi, 18. - ISBN 2-905543-03-5. - 500
exemplaires numerotes

6. Notions sur l'eveil a la sexualite traditionnelle occidentale : premier
fascicule : l'autre / Solazaref. - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de
science, 1985. - p. 34. - ISBN 2-905543-05-1. - 500 exemplaires numerotes

7. La verite interdite : elements d'initiation a la connaissance alchimique
traditionnelle : premier opuscule : les prolegomenes / Solazaref. -
Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de science, 1985. - ISBN 2-905543-06-X. -
500 exemplaires numerotes

8. La verite interdite : elements d'initiation a la connaissance alchimique
traditionnelle : deuieme opuscule : alchimie, sciences et religion suivi de
conseils pour les navigants / Solazaref. - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux
de science, 1986. - ISBN 2-905543-07-8. - 500 exemplaires numerotes

9. Tempete chymique : face a l'Athanor aujourd'hui: une serie limitee de
cahiers d'alchimie : une reponse traditionnelle concrete aux questions de ce
temps: troisiemee cahier, Careme 1987. - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de
science, 1986. - p. 88. - ISBN 2-905543-10-8, ISBN 0769-2420

10. Almanach des Amoureux de Science dans lequel il sera dit quelles sont
les operations se rapportant aux Arts Chymiques & a l'Alchimie : ce, quelles
que soient les voies tres vraies pour la Science de Notre-Dame & pour les
Pauvres : tout ce qui y est ecrit a ete fait, sans aucun language veneneux
hypothetique : 1., Careme 1987. - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de
science, 1986. - ISBN 2-905543-11-6.

11. Les buchers du xx siecle / Solazaref. - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux
de science, 1988. - p. 254. - ISBN 2-905543-13-2

12. Du nettoyage des ecuries d'Augias : tome II ou le combat des adepts /
Les Incorruptibles (Filiation Solazaref). - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux
de science, 1989. - p. 88. - ISBN 2-905543-14-0. - 320 exemplaires dont 300
numerotes et 20 marques H.C.

13. Metabolisation de la Pierre Philosophale ou Somme Hermetique : tome III:
de l'esprit universel : vol. 1., V.I.T.R.I.O.L.V.M. / Solazaref. -
Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de science, 1990. - p. 112. - ISBN 2-905543-15-9

14. Metabolisation de la Pierre Philosophale ou Somme Hermetique : tome III:
de l'esprit universel: vol. 2., Alkaest / Solazaref. - Teilhede, Editions
aux amoureux de science, 1990. - p. 344, 4 errata corrige. - ISBN 2-905543-16-7

15. Metabolisation de la Pierre Philosophale ou Somme Hermetique : tome VI:
Ars brevis : vol. 1., Les feux du ciel / Solazaref. - Teilhede, Editions
aux amoureux de science, 1991. - p. 416. - ISBN 2-905543-17-5

16. Metabolisation de la Pierre Philosophale ou Somme Hermetique : tome IV:
De natura metallorum : vol. 1., Petites operations minerales : (en 2
parties) / Solazaref. - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de science, 1991
1. - p. 232. - ISBN 2-905543-18-3
2. - p. 288. - ISBN 2-905543-19-1

17. Metabolisation de la Pierre Philosophale ou Somme Hermetique : tome V:
De natura vegetalorum : vol. 1., Petites operations vegetales : (en 2
parties) / Solazaref. - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de science, 1991
1. - p. 248. - ISBN 2-905543-20-5
2. - p. 192. - ISBN 2-905543-21-3

18. Celte aujourd'hui ou l'etre assassine / Les alchimistes de Teilhede. -
Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de science, 1992. - p. 96. - ISBN 2-905543-22-1

19. Serviat : trimestriel. - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de science,
1992. - ISSN 1163-8761. - 1/1992-
1/1992 - 2/1992;

20. Conference aux Nations-Unies 13 mai 1993 : metallurgie sacree (quelques
passages marquants) / Solazaref. - Teilhede, Editions aux amoureux de
science, 1993. - p. 56. - ISBN 2-905543-23-X

21. Introdution a la Somme Hermetique / Solazaref. - Teilhede, Editions aux
amoureux de science, 1994. - p. 312. - ISBN 2-905543-28-8

22. Introitus ad Philosophorum Lapidem / Solazaref. - trad. it. - Roma,
Edizioni mediterranee, 1994. - p. 414. - ISBN 88-272-1016-4

23. Du nettoyage des ecuries d'Augias : tome III : la cour des miracles /
Les Incorruptibles (Filiation Solazaref). - 1995

Domenico (Ingo) Bogliolo
CICS - Universita' "La Sapienza" - Roma, Italia
vox: +39-6-49913845; fax: +39-6-49913837
e-mail: bogliolo@axrma.uniroma1.it

Tue Apr 16 17:22:15 1996
Subject: 0717 Growing trees -Reply
From: Gilbert Arnold
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:19:37 -0400

to; al4302

You wrote;

>"Do you beleive everything you read, do you think that is possible to grow
>a alchemical tree without the alchemy.
>If this were so it would not be an alchemical tree but a metal tree and any
>chemist would be able to produce it.
>Do you not think that is one of many applications of the our stone extended
>life being another. Call me a romantic be if what you suggest is true then
>why can't I buy one?"

I was not talking "book alchemy"; I "grew" a tree in the lab, out of
activated mercury and gold salts. Boy, what a labour of love. Could a
chemist do it ? maybe, I have seen "trees" and "beating" mercury written
up in chemistry magazines and books. And do I believe every thing I read
? Well, I TEST LAB PROCEDURES BEFORE DISCUSSING THEM. I do
this over a period of three years, and if it can be replicated, then I discuss
it. For a 20th century alchemist may find precious resources in Science.

Yes, I think that PROPERLY PREPARED "alchemical" preparations
should extend life; but the red powder generated by the tree described
above is poison. Common sense extends life, as does exercise and proper
nutrition.

I suggest that you look up the references I gave in my earlier note.

Blessings,

+Gilbert

Tue Apr 16 22:42:29 1996
Subject: 0719 20th Century Alchemy
From: al4302
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:18:07 +0100

I fail to why if WISA was not offended, you were. For that I am
sorry but I would urge you to read it with more care.

>From: George Randall Leake III
>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 10:33:27 -0500
>
>
>*Is this kind of personal vitriol really necessary? And your ill-defined
>term "New age types" (insert "satanic" in another context maybe?) implies
>that transcendental aspects of alchemy are the result of some recent fad.
>Is this true?

Tue Apr 16 22:42:39 1996
Subject: 0720 20th Century Alchemy
From: Clinton R. Armitage
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:07:10 -0400

Some recent postings on the Forum have apparently
asserted that there are a number of Alchemists who
fraudulently claim to have made the Philosophers Stone.
The originators of these same postings also say that
they, themselves, have not yet accomplished the same
act.

My question to them would be " How can you make such a
judgment when you yourself have not accomplished it ?"
To me, that is a bit like trying to umpire a ball game
when you don't know the rules.

In short, we do not know that which we do not know !

Tue Apr 16 22:42:50 1996
Subject: 0721 The stone or not the stone
From: al4302
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:18:04 +0100

>al4302 said : It is an unlucky alchemist that becomes known.
>If by Alchemist, he meant an ADEPT, I would agree with this
>statement on 99% of the cases. The exception would be those
>cases when this Adept might feel that he has a particular work
>to accomplish that would justify such a decision to become
>known. Perhaps the special times we live in, could justify
>that type of decision, but that is another subject all together.

It is said that every Alchemist/Adept must penetrate the outer
world to the same degree as the inner, leaving clues for the
likes of us he will inevitably become known. But once the job
is done, what then, does he kill himself or is it a philosophical
death.

Tue Apr 16 22:42:59 1996
Subject: 0722 The stone or not the stone
From: Patrick J. Smith
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 12:03:59 -0600

Pat zalewski asks:

> Also I would still like some confirmation about Cochrens death. Was it in
> the blitz as Beat said or was it later.

There are conflicting accounts of Archibald Cockren's death.
According to Ithell Colquhoun in `Sword of Wisdom', Cockren, who was a
masseur by trade, was killed in Holborn when his laboratory was
destroyed in a bombing raid during WWII. However, the writer C.R.
Cammell, who was one of those who visited Cockren's lab and witnessed
the "tree", tells the story differently. He says that Cockren's lab
was indeed destroyed by a bomb during the war, but that Cockren
survived and moved to Brighton where, some years later, and on the verge
of having the Stone, he died. Cammell gives the date as 1950.
Perhaps someone over there in England could resolve this for us.

-Patrick

Tue Apr 16 22:43:09 1996
Subject: 0723 Using another's powder
From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 12:05:32 -0500

*But this is under the assumption that anything Waite wrote about can be
trusted. The more I study the man, the more I learn how he hid or
dissembled the truth. One example is the symbolism on his Tarot cards
(write me personally for a fuller explanation). I certainly have not known
him to be the final authority on Dee by any stretch.

>Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 00:37:55 -0400
>From: photopro
>In Alchemists through the Ages, A.E. Waite talks about John Dee and
>Edward Kelly using another chemists white powder successfully. It
>brought him temporary wealth and overall greater problems.
>Reconciliation being what it is.But someone a short while back had
>raised the question of weather someone could do this and again it seems
>the answer is yes with conditions.
>Wisa

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu

"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a
child."
-Cicero
"Oh age! oh letters! It is a joy to be alive!...Woe to you, barbarians!"
-Ulrich von Hutten, 1518, Poet Laureate of the German Empire

Tue Apr 16 22:43:20 1996
Subject: 0724 The stone or not the stone
From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 07:49 NZST

Orcis made some pretty good points re the stone. For me I simply want to cut
throught the crap in discussing this. I agree with Orcis that there have
been reports of a stone for the last 1000 years or more. But there have been
reports of the Holy grail and King arthur for almost as long with s little
more intensity than the stone. Yet we know that arthur did not exist but in
all probability he was based on a real person with everything blown out of
all proportion. On the Alt. sci. archeology news forum much of the real
evidence of arthur is presented which in no way resembles the fabled hero.
I have mentioned Michael talbots book `Holographic Universe' a number of
times and in many respects this explains that the legend of the stone has
taken on a life of its own. Talbot explains how this is possible and the
romantised notion can create a life force of its own where truth and fiction
are blurred.
Some years ago people accused me of having the stone as well (which I can
assure you I do not) merely due to the fact that while nearing fifty I look
mid thirties and so does my wife as well. All because one day someone asked
my about it and I jokingly said I have the stone. Things spread like
wildfire with all sorts of rumours and it took me quite a while to convince
people otherwise that it was a case of good genetics and a healthy life
style. If I would have left this go and left the area I live in no doubt
these rumours would have grown even more. This is the sort of twaddle that I
want to avoid.
Someone on this forum made the point that it could be me with a case of
sour grapes. Oddly enough if I ever had a secret fear it would be to live
out life longer than anyone else, so longivity( living for a few hundred
years) and me are not really compatable.
All I want re the stone is the truth not a romantised concept of it. I
believe it exists, but on what its exact powers I am not sure. This is what
I am trying to find out and the only way to do this is to stop quoting old
texts and do some good old scientific analysis work on what it is, or what
it is not. I also believe in a spiritual stone as well, and this is often
confused with the physical article.

Pat zalewski

Tue Apr 16 22:43:30 1996
Subject: 0725 Making of the Stone
From: calhhh
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 14:38:50 -0400

Petra Gottlieb wrote :

>>> Calhhh/ORCIS writes:
>>> ...,where the Stone in the process of being made requires
>>> lots of energy from the Seed as well as from its "Creator"
>>> (Alchemist).

>Can you alaborate on that a bit further. Where do you get the seed from if
>not from within the Alchemist?

Semantics usually complicates things, since two people may
have similar concepts, but use different words for it. Specially
when like in my case, english is not my main language. However
I will try to explain what I meant. For me the SEED is the
vital energy that has been named in many ways : vril, prana,
od, orgone, archaeus, etc.. So how do you get the SEED within
the AMALGAM ?? Well, there are different positions on it.
Some people argue that this vital energy is part of every living
thing so it is already contained in the materia which we
start working with upon the formation of Our Chaos.

Trithemius even mentions that through the work of nature this
vital energy has been captured within some minerals in more
quantity than in others, perhaps giving a clue as to which
materials are more preferable than others for the Great Work.

There is however as well a different position, which argues
that besides the vital energy already contained within the
minerals, more in some than others, there are ways for the
alchemist to "philosophize" additionally his initial chaos
by adding and potentializing in some manner or other this
primordial energy, which it has been said becomes tangible
as a result of the marriage of the Sun and the Moon, the Ying
and the Yang, etc., therefore becoming the SEED, that should
be incorporated in the AMALGAM.

For all of those that have worked within the field of Subtle
Energies, for example "pyramid power" type of experiments,
it is clear that there are ways to concentrate and even
to manipulate the cosmo-telluric energies, as a result of
the materials that are being used as well as to colors,
sizes, proportions, etc. It is quite clear that Cosmo-
Telluric energies have a definite influence in general
on any living thing and in particular, with regards to our
work, on metals and minerals. I will take the liberty of
suggesting two books to this regard :

1) METAL POWER - The Soul Life of the Planets by Alison Davidson
2) THE METAL - PLANET RELATIONSHIP - A Study of Celestial Influence
by Nick Kollerstrom

Both published by Borderland Sciences Research Foundation.

Indeed the energy from the ALCHEMIST in my opinion is indispensable
since this will be the tuning fork, after which the Stone will emulate
the Crystallization process, and that is why I feel that as the
operator becomes a "Purer Stone" energy/spiritually wise, the better
crystals will be formed out of his AMALGAM. In this sense, the
ALCHEMIST becomes a SEED as well.

Petra, I would love to see your own opinion to this regard as well
as those of the other forum members,

Best Regards,

ORCIS
calhhh@mail.pananet.com

"MONTES FIDES MOVETO"

Tue Apr 16 22:43:41 1996
Subject: 0726 20th Century Alchemy - D. Hudson
From: Barry Carter
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 12:22:52 +0000

Dear Friends,

calhhh states:

> al 4302 stated on his message 0668 :
>
> >The tincture is only medicine for the one who makes it.
>
> I tend to agree with the thought that The Tincture, which I
> understood to mean the Elixir that prolongs life, would only act
> upon who made it (but is just my unsubstantiated feeling ...).
> However since you mention it much more matter of factly,
> I would sincerely appreciate additional comments, as to why you
> think this is so.
>
> As I understand it, starting with the White Stone it already
> has medicinal value for third parties beyond the operator.
> Paracelsus reports that the White Stone (LUNA) among other
> things cures leprosy. Therefore, starting from that point onward
> the Stone seems to be able to be used to cure others. However
> it has been mentioned that the QUINTESSENCE (Great Elixir),
> should only be ingested by the Operator (alchemist), because
> of the tremendous consequences/changes that irreversably it may
> bring about.

David Hudson reports in his Dallas lecture that he has been supplying
white powder monoatomic elements (mostly rhodium and iridium) to
doctors with the following results:

Now, what does it do? I'm not a doctor so I can't practice
medicine. Anything that is administered to someone for the
purpose of curing a disease is medicine. So therefore I can't
tell you on tape what's been done with it, what the doctors who
have giving it have done with it, but I can tell you that at 2
mg. it totally has gotten rid of Karposi Sarcomas on AIDS
patients, at 2 mg. per day. 2 mg. per day. There's 32,000
milligrams in an ounce, 2 mg. is nothing. And it gets rid of
"KS". I can tell you that people who have taken it, at 2 mg.
injections, within 2 hours, their white blood cell count goes
from 2,500 to 6,500 white blood cells. I can tell you that
stage 4 cancer patients have taken it orally, and after 45 days
have no cancer anyplace in the body. We're not gonna go into
any more specifics than that. I will talk to you about it later
when the cameras aren't running.

I am not a doctor. My purpose in this was not to cure diseases
and illness, but I did want to know "does it work"? It's been
used on Lou Gehrig's disease, it's been used on MS, it's been
used on MD, it's been used on arthritis, it's been used on, ah,
what else, that's all that's coming to mind right now, and it
just does some very remarkable things in the body. The most
important thing that it does and the real reason this is here is
not as a medicine. . . .

We don't have all the answers yet. There's a tremendous amount
of research study that needs to be done by the medical people on
it. We have an awful lot of doctors already working on it.
AIDS, cancer all working on it. We have National Institute of
Health licensing and permitting to do it. And, ah, all I can
tell you is it's here, it ain't going to go away if you don't
believe it, and ,ah, it will change the world more than anything
in the last 2,000 years. . . .

Okay, do understand that .... the question was, "Do the people
who take it for the medicinal purposes have the same things
happen to them as the people who took it for philosophical
reasons?" First of all, the fellow who took it for
philosophical reasons fasted for 40 days and took 500 mg. per
day, the people who took it for medicine took 50 mg. a day. So,
you know, there's a big.....

(Question - They didn't have any of the side benefits?)

They didn't.....no one has commented on the sound, however it is
coincidental to me that the lady who had the stage 4 cancer now
is a Sikh, wears the white robes and everything. The two AIDS
patients say that they have never been religious, but they just
feel more one with their Creator. They just feel like there's a
oneness. And I've never solicited this information. They don't
know anything about the other people. It's curious that, of what
they are telling me. So it is changing the way they see
themselves in the life process.

I have heard recent rumors that a major university has seen immediate
40% reductions in cancer cell mass in petri dish cultures after
exposure to monoatomic rhodium.

> I think would be of A PRACTICAL USE FOR THIS FORUM, as I
> requested before, to discuss and then try to make an homogeneous
> definition of the different terms associated with the
> Stone (Elixir, White/Red Stone, Quintessence, etc.), and the
> different views as to the level of purification of each of the
> stages, and what their scope of action would be.

This would help us to have some bench marks for our work as well. We
need to start relating alchemy to modern quantum physics. While
David Hudson has some off the wall theories about history and his
role in it, the theory which he has compiled and promoted about
monoatomic elements and their connection with alchemy is about the
strongest connection I have ever seen between modern physics and
alchemy. I have seen nothing on this forum or elsewhere which would
not be explained within this model.

Using David Hudson's monoatomic theory as a model we are speculating
that there is more than one energy level for monoatomic gold. The
lower energy level can be reached using a wet chemistry process which
takes about two weeks. This produces a white powder material which
is stable. There is a long slippery slope up to the next stable
plateau. The process of moving the material up to the second plateau
uses the same chemical processes but since there are no longer any
valence electrons available for chemical bonding all of the chemical
reactions which were available in the first process no longer are as
effective.

We speculate that there are still some sort of unidentified weak
bonding properties which allow the monoatomic materials to be slowly
moved toward the second plateau using similar chemical processes to
the ones which worked to achieve the first stable plateau. We think
that, as a result of the vastly weakened bonding which is available
once the first plateau has been reached, the second plateau will take
more than a year to reach using wet chemistry. We have been in
communication with people who are exploring the wet chemical method
and are basing part of this theory on their experiences.

Barry Carter
Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance
Voice 541-523-3357
Fax 541-523-9438

Insanity is doing the same thing
and expecting different results.

Wed Apr 17 17:50:07 1996
Subject: 0727 Alchemy - Golden Dawn Statement
From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:11:55 -0500

>>From: George Randall Leake III
>>Pat--wouldn't you say that a vital influence of Alchemy in the Golden
>>Dawn and its various offshoots is the use of its symbolism/inconographic
>>dimension?

>From: Pat Zalewski
>Up're probably right up to a point george, but I tend to see things in in
>multi levels and one of my mainstay belief structures is outlined by Michael
>Talbot's Holographic Universe (Grafton Books) I have mentioned this book
>before and if you digest it George, possible the whole concept of magic can
>be explained.

I have indeed tasted this book though I haven't chewed on it...what I have
read I have enjoyed immensely...one of the key ideas mentioned there
reflects the Hermetic ideas microcosm reflects the macrocosm, as above so
below, all is connected...and so on

> The Theory behind it is still evolotionary and the laws of
>Physics are really bent out of shape because of it.

the LAWS are, or classical scientists are?

> The same thing can be
>applied to alchemical theory in imagery. Have a good read of it george and
>after that I would be glad swap concepts. I am surpised that alchemists do
>not start investigating talbot's theories as well, for the explantion of the
>stone and its underlying concepts can be readily explained in a more
>coherent manner.

I'll get back to Talbot after a bit, but what about the Golden Dawn itself
and Alchemy? Would you say Crowley is too outside the mainstream of the GD
to study this particular aspect.

Wed Apr 17 17:50:16 1996
Subject: 0728 Growing trees
From: al4302
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 22:38:34 +0100

Dear Gilbert,

Could you describe your tree for me?

Wed Apr 17 17:50:27 1996
Subject: 0729 Sunlight/Moonlight
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:50:18 -0400

Dear Beat,

Thank you so much for your important post!

Throughout this past lunation (New Moon to New Moon) I have been
studying the rhythm of the Fluids and have discovered the following:

1) In my observations, this archetypal rhythm was exact only on the day of
Full Moon itself (when she was truly opposite the Sun). During the 3 days
preceeding and following exact Full Moon (seven days in total), there was
indeed a fairly even correlation between day/Magnetic Fluid (MF) and
night/Electric Fluid (EF). I observed the following archetypal pattern:
Sunrise to noon -- MF increases steadily, peaking around mid-morning and
holding this crest till noon. Noon to sunset -- MF fades as EF increases,
reaching an approximate balance at sunset. Sunset to midnight -- EF
increases steadily, peaking by the time Moon reaches about 11 o'clock, and
holding this crest till it reaches about 2 o'clock in the sky. Midnight to
sunrise -- EF fades as MF increases, reaching an approximate balance at
sunrise.

2) At New Moon, the Fluids are mixed, Mercurial... There is less polarity,
yet the EF seems predominant. During the waxing Moon, the Fluids slowly
differentiate and polarize. During the waning Moon, the opposite occurs,
and the Fluids merge.

3) The above observations are strictly regarding the physical presence of
the Fluids on the surface of the Earth here in Laytonville, California, USA;
during this past lunation with Sol in Aries. Astrally, the Fluids present a
somewhat different pattern. They are tied to the Solar sphere and the Lunar
sphere in much the same way as their physical aspects are tied to Sun and
Moon; but these subtle spheres have a different rhythm and a different
correlation to experience. As regards the astral and mental use of the
Fluids, I observed the following during the same lunation: a) My access to
the "Universal supply" of the Fluids was not affected by the lunation cycle
whatsoever. But this may simply be my personal response to this particular
lunation considering my natal astrology, etc. Direct observation of
subsequent lunations will be required to prove or disprove this conclusion.
b) Dynamic accumulation of the Fluids into a simple condenser was however
directly influenced by the phases of the lunation! At New Moon, I am able to
effect a base-line physical loading, and my standard astral and mental
loading (which far outweighs the physical load). During the seven days of
the Moon's fullness, the amount of physical load of which I am able,
increases (for both fluids and in direct correlation to time of day), and
this
has the effect of integrating a greater portion of the astral and mental load
into the physical condenser. The flow of the Fluid's manifestation from
mental, through astral, to physical, is somehow increased during the
physical polarization of Sun and Moon. The physical effectiveness of my
use of the Fluids was greater during the Moon's fullness, whereas the Fluids
directed for specific astral and mental effects were unaffected by the
lunation.

I am conjecting from my observations of this single lunation that the best
times for charging a physical condenser would be as follows:
1) During the seven days surrounding the Full Moon.
2) From sunrise till about 2pm (in the open air) for an MF load.
3) From sunset till about 2am (in the open air) for an EF load.

I am most interested to hear how, or even if, this correlates with your -- or
anyone else's -- laboratory experience.

Best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
16 Apr 96

Wed Apr 17 17:50:35 1996
Subject: 0730 Gilbert Opus Magnum
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:00:18 -0400
From: photopro

>Received: 04/16 1:47 PM
>From: Gilbert Arnold, arnoldg@EM.AGR.CA

>Dear Photopro,

>Your post below is one of the most lucid and common sense imbued that I
>have seen on the subject as a lab alchemist. You are to be commended. "

Dear Gilbert Thank you for your affirmation. It does feel supportive
and encouraging especially after the "regards from Lenn" which I
believe I answered adequately but which initiately hurt.

Another thought occured to me as I reread your message and my original
one. So here it is.

How many have caught the Leonardo DaVinci image on the Cistine Chapel
ceiling of the figure taking off (or was he putting on) his skin. It's
there on a cloud. Look for it. That's a picture of a Master.

And do you recall the story that at the signing of the Declaration of
Independence there was a strange unknown man present during the
ceremony, then never seen again? We all know that many FreeMasons were
there writing that Declaration. This number includes Ben Franklin and
Tom Jefferson and (I'm not absolutely positive about Tom Paine) and
there were a number of others in that fine assembly who were
FreeMasons.

For those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

------------------

Correction.
From: photopro

How embarressing. Cistine Chapel= Michaelangelo not Leonardo D.. Those
Art books lie side by side in my living room and I flipped(inverted)
the names over. Love them both but I made a boo boo. I stand corrected
by my recollection of the true artist. Wisa

Wed Apr 17 17:50:44 1996
Subject: 0731 The seed out of nature
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 16 Apr 96 18:47:41 EDT

Petra asked: >Where do you get the seed from if not from within the Alchemist?<

The simple answer: From nature. Nature contains in itself all necessary energies
to the great work. Indeed matter is composed of parts, which hinder the release
and radiation of the concealed energies, and of parts, which are strong
condensers of the concealed energies.

In reality it counts to separate the material supporting emanation by the
material impeding emanation and to purify and to unite it in a supremely loaded
form again. That is spagyrics, that is uniting and separating again. Indeed it
is more complicated to put into practice as it sounds. Therefore many have had
the erroneous sight, the alchemists would have described in their books only
inner processes of the psyche.

Lapis

Wed Apr 17 21:41:37 1996
Subject: 0732 buccinators
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 18:32 +0100
From: Dr. Karl Boehm

In an old encyclopedia I have read about an alchemy society in my hometown
Nuremberg called the "buccinators".

Does anyone know more about these rosicrucian society in the 17th century?

You may write to the forum or to DrKBoehm@t-online.de directly.

Karl Boehm

Wed Apr 17 22:02:08 1996
Subject: 0733 List of 20th Century alchemists
I wonder if the forum members could help me draw up a list of 20th century alchemists together with some short biographical notes on each person which I could include on the Alchemy web site. It is difficult to define who exactly should be on this list - perhaps it is easier to think of those to exclude.

Here is a short list I drew up to start the ball rolling.

Armand Barbault
Eugene Canseliet
Roger Caro
Archibald Cockren
Fulcanelli
Albert Reidel - Frater Albertus
Solazaref

Please try to think of some others and then justify their inclusion,

Adam McLean

Thu Apr 18 09:27:48 1996
Subject: 0734 The hidden Sun- and Moonlight
From: John Reid
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:03:47 -0400 (EDT)

Beat,

Truly you have a firm grasp of the subject. Again you have planted seed
for thought.

JHRIII

Thu Apr 18 09:27:59 1996
Subject: 0735 Sunlight/Moonlight
From: Patrick J. Smith
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 15:09:20 -0600

Rawn Clark writes:

> .....I observed the following archetypal pattern:
> Sunrise to noon -- MF increases steadily, peaking around mid-morning and
> holding this crest till noon. Noon to sunset -- MF fades as EF increases,
> reaching an approximate balance at sunset. Sunset to midnight -- EF
> increases steadily, peaking by the time Moon reaches about 11 o'clock, and
> holding this crest till it reaches about 2 o'clock in the sky. Midnight to
> sunrise -- EF fades as MF increases, reaching an approximate balance at
> sunrise.

Can someone out there define these terms for me? What exactly is

1) Magnetic Fluid; (e.g., the geomagnetic fluctuation index?)
2) Electric Fluid; (e.g., the fair weather electric field gradient?)

Also, how are these quantities being measured? (The observations
described above suggest that some objective means is being used to
reach these conclusions.)

> I am conjecting from my observations of this single lunation that the best
> times for charging a physical condenser would be as follows:
> 1) During the seven days surrounding the Full Moon.
> 2) From sunrise till about 2pm (in the open air) for an MF load.
> 3) From sunset till about 2am (in the open air) for an EF load.

What sort of "physical condenser" are you referring to here? How do
the electric and magnetic fluids manifest themselves in the condensed
state? E.g., as electric charge and a magnetic dipole moment?

-Patrick

Thu Apr 18 09:28:10 1996
Subject: 0736 Growing trees -Reply
From: Gilbert Arnold
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 18:34:13 -0400

al4302 wrote;

"Dear Gilbert,

Could you describe your tree for me?"

The first signs were reddish flecks floating in the activated mercury in the
flask held at the appropriate temperature. These came together at the
same time that a beading process started on the inside of the 50 ml flask.
The tree had a visible shape somewhat akin to crystallizing red lead sub
acetates in rectified wine spirits. Not very tall and the flask could not be
taken from the heat or moved without the tree falling apart. This may have
been a function of our limited gold budget or my insistence on keeping the
flask at a temperature no higher than one could tolerate to touch.

Thu Apr 18 09:28:28 1996
Subject: 0737 Alchemy - Golden Dawn Statement
From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 09:58 NZST

>From: George Randall Leake III
>Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:11:55 -0500
>
>I'll get back to Talbot after a bit, but what about the Golden Dawn itself
>and Alchemy? Would you say Crowley is too outside the mainstream of the GD
>to study this particular aspect.

In the Golden dawn there were alchemists. My old mentor jack taylor saw a
lead rose petal (shown to him by Mrs. felkin in the 1930's ) that was half
lead and gold. It was given to Dr. felkin from a GD associate (pre 1900).
She told him that they (whoever they were) in the old order did convert a
small quantity of lead into gold and used an ornamental rose as an example.
It was only done twice and they could not continue due to cost as it cost
more to make it than the result was worth. Taylor did have the good sense to
take a photo of it and he showed it to me in 1980. It was black and white so
I could not tell much but I trusted his judgement.

The GD used the Z2 ritual formulea. Crowley did not ,and I think he was
influenced by his friend Jones(also GD) who stated the Z2 was a lot of rot.
He may have done an alchemical experiment or to in his younger days but
after the book of the law he junked a great deal of the ritual concept of
mathers for his own. If he did any early GD alchemcial work it is probably
lost to us. It would stress though that to doa full Z2 requites a lot of
staying power. In one experiment I did it took over a year and 18 horoscopes
before I succeeded.The breakdown of the Z2 is a practical rehash of the
Egyptian Book of the Dead and what the GD hoped to do was to bring in the
power of Osiris and the Hall of Judgement through a magical current. talbot
would probably say that the GD simply tapped into a an old belief structure
and drew it power. Jung would probably say the GD tapped into the Collective
Unconscious and drew all the belief and energy of millions Egyptian souls
sent there thoughts and aspirations to. tablot also states that if a truth
does not exists then if enough people belive in it it may manifest itself.
Perhaps the stone is one of these? who knows!

Pat zalewski

Thu Apr 18 09:28:39 1996
Subject: 0738 List of 20th Century alchemists
From: Jon Marshall
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 08:51:42 -0700

does anyone know anything about R.W. Councell?
author of Apologia Alchymiae,

Acording to van ash and rohmer (*master of villany*) he *may* have introduced
sax rhomer into a 'rosicrucian' society. He was a medical doctor and died of
cancer.

I presume from the initial list of suggestions a candidate has to be dead?

jon

Thu Apr 18 09:29:02 1996
Subject: 0739 List of 20th Century alchemists
From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:59:59 -0500

would you consider members of or offshoots of the Golden Dawn for inclusion?

Thu Apr 18 09:29:18 1996
Subject: 0740 List of 20th Century alchemists
From: John Reid
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 20:21:55 -0400 (EDT)

You might try adding Manfred Junious to the list. Few have written as
clearly on the subject of plant alchemy as he has. From my own experiance
I have found his book to be very usefull in educating oneself about the
lesser circulation. In fact I prefered his work to that of Frater Albertus.

JHRIII

Thu Apr 18 09:29:43 1996
Subject: 0741 List of 20th Century alchemists
From: RJB
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:27:27 -0700 (PDT)

W A Ayton, as described in

Author: Ayton, W. A. (William Alexander)
Title: The alchemist of the Golden Dawn : the letters of the
Revd W.A. Ayton to F.L. Gardner and others, 1886-1905
Pub. Info: Wellingborough, Northamptonshire : Aquarian Press, 1985

Series: Roots of the golden dawn series
ISBN: 0850302889 (pbk.) :

Do you mean people who practiced laboratory alchemy -- or do you mean
people who did so and (in some sense) attained?

LeGrand Cinq-Mars
rjb@u.washington.edu

Thu Apr 18 09:29:52 1996
Subject: 0742 Sunlight/Moonlight
From: OISPEGGY
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 21:27:49 -0500 (EST)

Rawn:

>I am conjecting from my observations of this single lunation that the best
>times for charging a physical condenser would be as follows:
> 1) During the seven days surrounding the Full Moon.
> 2) From sunrise till about 2pm (in the open air) for an MF load.
> 3) From sunset till about 2am (in the open air) for an EF load.
>
>I am most interested to hear how, or even if, this correlates with your -- or
>anyone else's -- laboratory experience.

Excuse me for being dense, but how exactly did you measure this?

Thanks,

- Peggy -

Thu Apr 18 10:55:51 1996
Subject: 0743 List2 of 20th Century alchemists
There is always a problem in drawing up such a list of 20th century alchemists, and we can debate the methodology for months I suppose. However, what I am trying to do is to identify people who have become identified as continuing the alchemical tradition, and in this sense have become icons representing the continuation of alchemy in the 20th century.

Second version of the list:-

Armand Barbault
Eugene Canseliet
Roger Caro
Archibald Cockren
Fulcanelli
Manfred Junius
Lapidus
Albert Reidel - Frater Albertus
Solazaref

A few responses to suggestions:-

A.W. Ayton, although he lived into the first decade of the 20th century, must surely be seen as a 19th century alchemist, as the influence of his life and work was upon the late 19th century.

Re Golden Dawn members as alchemists - I am not quite sure what is here meant. Who in particular does one want to include from this group?

R.W. Councell belongs perhaps with Julius Kohn, Gerald Heym and Langford Garstin as minor figures. Perhaps we can place some people on a secondary list. Also a number of people contributed greatly to alchemy in the 20th century and yet were not alchemists as such - Carl Jung, John Ferguson, Cottie Burland, John Read (Prelude to Alchemy, etc), Manly Palmer Hall, etc. A problem arises with listing our contemporaries in that one risks offending people one does not include. People like Jack Glass and Hans Nintzel have done a great job in promoting alchemy in the past decades, but if we include them then we have to acknowledge a substantial list of people who have worked in some way to publicly promote alchemy.

This will be a difficult list to draw up.

Adam McLean

Thu Apr 18 11:05:15 1996
Subject: 0744 John Reid's course on plant alchemy
I couple of months ago on this forum John Reid promised to produce a course of practical lessons on plant alchemy. I recently received the text and images from him and have begun to place these onto the web site. There are some sections already in place, especially a chapter with a series of colour photographs of the work in progress. I will try to find the time to complete the formatting of the texts over this coming weekend.

My thanks to John for providing this practical work which balances the bibliographic and textual mass of the web site.

Adam McLean

Thu Apr 18 13:13:13 1996
Subject: 0745 List of 20th Century alchemists
Dear Adam,
When I was living in Salt Lake City and using the library at the
Paracelsus Research Society, I came across a small typescript manuscript
titled something like "Bibliography of Twentieth Century Alchemists" which
might be useful for your current project. It was written by a college
professor named Haggman or Hagman. Unfortunately, the copy I made for
myself of this interesting manuscript disappeared from my files some years
ago. For some months I have been thinking of asking if anyone on the
alchemy forum has a copy that they could make available to me or knew of
Professor Hagman and now seems like an appropriate time.

Cordially, Art Kunkin

Art Kunkin
Publisher and Editor, World Wide Free Press
URL: http://www.wwfreepress.com/
Voice: 310-455-2451 E-Mail: kunkin@cinenet.net
Snail Mail: 115 S. Topanga Canyon Blvd, Suite #166

Topanga, CA 90290, U.S.A.
"It's Never Too Late To Have A Happy Childhood"
(Ask me how!)

Thu Apr 18 14:25:40 1996
Subject: The Future of the Alchemy Web site
A few weeks ago I posted a request for help with relocating the alchemy Web site, and I received a number of generous responses.

I now have two firm possibilities available.

For the immediate future the site will remain at Colloquium, but I hope to be able to move it, in a month or two, to a server with lower operating costs. So there is now no long term problem over the costs of running the site.

I will inform you about the changes in due course.

Adam McLean

Thu Apr 18 14:24:38 1996
Subject: Transcriptions of alchemical texts
I find I need some funding to provide me with microfilms of important English translations of key alchemical writings in order that I can transcribe these for the Web site.

In particular, there is a group of 10 or so manuscripts I have found in the British Library which contain English translations of a number of key alchemical works (in an easily read hand), never printed in English. Unfortunately it costs around 50 UK pounds ($80) for the British Library to make up a microfilm and a further 20 UK pounds ($30) to have it printed out onto paper which is the best way to work with this material. So I need to find about 70 UK pounds ($100) a microfilm.

I do not have any funding at present to work on the Internet and have to cover the costs out of my own pocket. Would anyone be willing to purchase some of these microfilms, so that I can work on transcribing them?

With my best wishes,

Adam McLean

Sat Apr 20 13:13:54 1996
Subject: 0746 To members in Florida
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 18 Apr 96 19:20:38 EDT

From 4th to 26th May I will be in Florida. Perhaps forum members being
interested in a meeting live in Florida.

Always I gladly exchange thoughts and experiences with serious alchemists.
Especially then, if they dispose of practical experience. Interested members
should report to me.

Lapis
100667.1267@compuserve.com

Sat Apr 20 13:13:54 1996
Subject: 0747 List2 of 20th Century alchemists
From: Claude Gagnon
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 19:45:22 -0400 (EDT)

Dear mr. McLean,

Alexandre Lachance was unanimisly considered as an alchemist by all the
canadians that knew him. He was a pratician as he recalled himself.A one hour film was
made on him by the C.B.C. I will give you some of his coordonnates in a few days when I will be at my home office.

Claude Gagnon

Sat Apr 20 13:13:54 1996
Subject: 0748 List of 20th Century alchemists
From: Russ House
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 21:04:38 -0400

I like this idea, and would suggest the inclusion of Pancaldi. Manfred
Junius and Jean Dubuis. We have the advantage that at least Junius and
Dubuis are presently using a relatively dense vehicle. I am not in contact
with Pancaldi, and am not sure in his case. Perhaps Simon H. would be of
interest as well.

Regards,

Russ House
alchemy@mcs.com

====================================
Courses in Alchemy * Qabala * Esoteric Studies
The Philosophers of Nature
http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/ email: alchemy@mcs.com
====================================
"Thou, Nature, art my Goddess. To thy law my services are bound."
-- Shakespeare (King Lear)

Sat Apr 20 13:13:54 1996
Subject: 0749 Sunlight/Moonlight ?'s
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 23:41:39 -0400

Dear Peggy and Patrick,

Sorry, I realized upon re-reading my Sunlight/Moonlight post, that these are
questions I should have addressed....

***RE:
>>I am conjecting from my observations of this single lunation that the best
>>times for charging a physical condenser would be as follows:
>> 1) During the seven days surrounding the Full Moon.
>> 2) From sunrise till about 2pm (in the open air) for an MF load.
>> 3) From sunset till about 2am (in the open air) for an EF load.
>>
>>I am most interested to hear how, or even if, this correlates with your --
>>or anyone else's -- laboratory experience.

***You asked:
>Excuse me for being dense, but how exactly did you measure this?
> [This is NOT a dense question, but a very good one!]
>Thanks,
>- Peggy -

And...

>What sort of "physical condenser" are you referring to here? How do
>the electric and magnetic fluids manifest themselves in the condensed
>state? E.g., as electric charge and a magnetic dipole moment?
>
>-Patrick

For many years, I have pursued the path of Hermetic magic laid out by Franz
Bardon in his book "Initiation Into Hermetics". Through this process, I have
developed my physical, astral, and mental senses, and it is with these
senses that my observations have been made. I have used no scientific
instruments, nor do I even compose my experience in those terms. I know
this will be especially frustrating for you Patrick...this is simply *my*
way.

I have worked with the Elements and the Fluids extensively and know them
well. I live very close to Nature and know Her well too. With my astral and
mental senses tuned specifically to the perception of the Fluids as they
descend to the surface of the Earth, I made thrice (at least!) daily
observations of real-time conditions. I took note of the Fluidal-tone or
prevalence, and its perceivable affect upon the Earth. I systematically
covered the cycles of the day throughout the lunation and simply correlated
my observation and my experience and concluded as above.

Throughout the lunation I also conducted experiments upon my fabled
condensers. :-) They are quite simple and rudimentary. For the EF, I used a
specific 18k gold ring; and for the MF, I used a .999 silver amulet of
personal
importance. I have loaded these objects countless times with a variety of
purposes, and know their limits (and mine in relation to them) quite well.

I performed several control loadings and achieved my usual result, which I
call my "base-line" load. This is very strong mentally and astrally, with a
small ratio of physically perceivable (by me) effect (warmth, and the tingly
"feel" with the EF; and a coldness that "feels" magnetic with the MF...sorry,
but I've never tried to describe the "feel" of the Fluids before).

I devoted a great deal of time and effort to the specific study of the Fluids
during this past lunation. I realize however, that this is simply a single
lunation -- that of Sol in Aries, specifically...perhaps the most archetypal
of the cycle. I will continue my study throughout this year (though with fewer
experiments and at a milder pace!) and see if my intial conjectures hold
true.
Many questions have arisen for me (many more than have answers) during
this study, and I am most interested to see if/how the Fluids correspond to
the Earth's cycle of changes. The Fluids seemed to have a specific Aries
"flavor" during this last lunation, so I am paying specific attention to this
aspect of my observations currently, as Luna and Sol enter Taurus.

I hope this answers your questions.

:) Rawn Clark
18 Apr 96

Sat Apr 20 13:13:54 1996
Subject: 0750 Alchemy - Golden Dawn Statement
From: Jfruther
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 12:58:49 -0400

>From: George Randall Leake III
>Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:11:55 -0500
>
>I'll get back to Talbot after a bit, but what about the Golden Dawn itself
>and Alchemy? Would you say Crowley is too outside the mainstream of the GD
>to study this particular aspect.

Do not forget, that Crowley was a student of chemistry in his younger days
and was influenced of the bacillus known as "Science", so he alway denied the
alchemical way. As I was an initiated member of some A.'. A.'. lodge, I found
it hurtfull to see a lack of any alchemical teaching. In my opinion Crowley
made a big mistake to forget Alchemy in his teachings. On the other hand he
was no man who would wait for some sesults too long. Even his Yoga
expieriences are only superficial and he never had the trial of patience to
do real alchemical work.
But his ideas upon sexual magick where influenced by some of the gerat
mysteries of the animal work, perhaps he has known more than he was telling
us - but if we look upon his character, this is would be very unlikely for
him :-)

V.I.T.R.I.O.L