Alchemy Forum 0951-1000

From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 951-1000.
Go to next 50 messages . Back to forum archive.

Mon May 27 21:13:07 1996
Subject: 0951 Attraction to worldly activities that deplete our libido

Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 22:18:13 -0400
From: ROBITAILLE , GEORGES

>Date: Sun, 19 May 96 19:30 NZST
>From: Pat Zalewski

>Good post Wisa. I have always felt that to ignore the desires, in some
>circumstances makes one run away from the real world and ones true vocation.
>It's my berlief (whether I am right or wrong) that someimes we have to face
>our desires and work through them for better understanding of self. I have
>always thought that sometimes karma plays a big part here, and to get away
>into some nice state of consciousness and never feeling the real world is
>simply a form of blocking or armouring the psyche. I came to this
>realisation while studying in India in the 1960' . More importantly , would
>alchemy also echoes this point as well. To reach the goal of the experiment
>there is always a trail by fire where the prima materia is put to the
>crucial test. Too much flame and the experiment is ruined, not enough and
>one starts again, but at no time will one reach the experiment with going
>through the flames,it is simply a question of degree. I take the trial by
>Fire as pushing oneself to the limit where the self or the experiment is not
>ruined.
>
>Pat zalewski

Good post Pat Zalewski . It helps me introduce a remark . I have been reading posts on this list for a few weeks and haven't seen any comment or discussion on the psychological meanings of alchemy . I have much respect for the laboratory aspect of alchemy but the oratory and its mystical ( dare I say psychological ) aspects are IMO the core of it . The life, evolution and the fulfillment of the psyche are IMO superbly demonstrated by alchemy . C.G. Jung major books on alchemy and now some of his "followers" Jungian psychanalysts are trying to keep digging in this "materia prima" to deepen our scientific knowledge of the human soul .
I think that it is good for alchemy that it be looked at from different perspectives and I must say that when I read Jung and then read different mystics I don't see any fundamental opposition I see a space for enriching exchange .
Any comments ?

Georges Robitaille
georrobi@odyssee.net
(514)466-5020

Mon May 27 22:26:12 1996
Subject: 0952 Sunspots

From: Rick Grimes
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 15:13:54 -0500
In regard to sunspots, the following may be helpful:

The sun's surface is constantly disrupted by exhaled gases from mildly
violent to extremely violent degrees. Earth seems to be relatively
stable in response to these solar eruptions except when they become
severe. Could it be because the basic crystalline structure of earthly
matter is superconductive? That is, in the midst of the atomic
complexity of earthly [planetary] structures there exists a monatomic
network of superconductivity. This would lend credence to the
instantaneous nature of certain cosmic phenomena.

Solar superconductivity would also help explain the nature and
propensity of spagyrically prepared plant and mineral salts to
concentrate power; for where does power on, or in, this planet
originate? The sun, of course. The properties of gems, crystals, and
even the philosopher's stone are more easily understood, therefore.

Does this not provoke one's thinking in regard to the radiant crystal of
Bit Nur? [For those who don't know the story: High in the Himalayas, in
the early part of this century, at the monastery of Bit Nur, the monks
had made a crystal that emitted light so intensely and bright that one
had to wear extremely dark glasses when in its presence. It was kept
under an alabaster cover and when it was exposed to metals its rays
transmuted them to their next highest state, copper to silver, silver to
gold, etc.]

In my lab work I have never been aware of influences from sunspot
activity, but I do believe eclipses, especially solar eclipses, can
affect results if they occur at a critical point in the operations.
However, my most profound lesson in my lab had not to do with the sun's
or the moon's affect on my project, but my own. IMO our subject, when we
have spagyrically purified and stripped it of its earthly garb, becomes
superconductive through the mediation of our own soul (sol) radiation's.

I would be interested to hear other ideas about this concept.

Rick Grimes turpen@starnetinc.com

Mon May 27 22:26:26 1996
Subject: 0953 References...

From: Douwe
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 22:31:24 +0200 (MET DST)
On this very moment I am busy with translating alchemical works to the Dutch
language, and now I have a question, about which I hope that some of you
might be able to help me out...

Did any of you ever come across deep clues, through clear references between
two texts that both give only half an answer, but that once read together
gives a deep and meaningful clues or insights in a part of the process?
I'll give one example... Weidenfelt talks about the production of alchemical
wine (concerning the secrets of the adepts), but I got the initial and
hidden clue trough one sentence in the triumphal chariot, 'spoken by
Kerckringius in his notes'.
through this connection a lot of things became clear to me.
Like this you may find things in the golden tripod and the atalanta fugiens
(this last one is the obscurest, but can the clearest if you see it in the
right reference to other texts... You may understand Michael Maier through
reading the books he liked...).
(I am not sure of it, but I also suspect a knowledge and understanding of
M.M. concerning the works of John Dee, seen the references in a subtle
allegory and the hyroglyphic monad for instance, and in some of M.M. his
other books...but it is not the place for this kind of thing over here.)

Now I am going to publish a translation of the; Atalanta fugiens, The 12
keys, The book of Lambspring, The hyeroglyphic monad, The all wise
doorkeeper, The secret of the immortal liquor alcahest, etc... etc... all
together in one book, or in a series of books , just for the simple reason
of cross reference...
Now I am wondering if any of you might be able to add a couple to the list
given here, or give some titles of other works that go well together like this.

I am mainly planning on translating the older works, but if there would be
some modern books that would fit into this, then I don't see the problem of
translating them too.

I hope that you will write in the forum when it is appropriate, but if this
would not be the case, then you can e-mail me directly on this topic.

darus@xs4all.nl
douwe.

Mon May 27 21:14:02 1996
Subject: 0954 Worldly Activities

Date: Sat, 25 May 96 20:26:25 -0000
From: photopro
>>You can not really give up your desires ( different from that One-Pointed
>>Desire) until you are ready. To repress them hurts the body greatly ( not
>>talking about great anti-social destructive to the greater society
>>desires which must be sublimated). When you advance, the transformation
>>will be great enough at a certain point for your attraction and
>>subjection to that desire to "fall away". Then you don't give up
>>anything, it loses its pull! It has been replaced by Universal Value
>>system which is what prevails and your force is put into first: The
>>Creative Arts ( Works of Art) and then: reverses to become simple i.e-
>>The Fool Tarot Card 0.
>>
>>Wisa
>
>Good post Wisa. I have always felt that to ignore the desires, in some
>circumstances makes one run away from the real world and ones true vocation.
>It's my berlief (whether I am right or wrong) that someimes we have to face
>our desires and work through them for better understanding of self. I have
>always thought that sometimes karma plays a big part here, and to get away
>into some nice state of consciousness and never feeling the real world is
>simply a form of blocking or armouring the psyche. I came to this
>realisation while studying in India in the 1960' . More importantly , would
>alchemy also echoes this point as well. To reach the goal of the experiment
>there is always a trail by fire where the prima materia is put to the
>crucial test. Too much flame and the experiment is ruined, not enough and
>one starts again, but at no time will one reach the experiment with going
>through the flames,it is simply a question of degree. I take the trial by
>Fire as pushing oneself to the limit where the self or the experiment is not
>ruined.
>
>Pat zalewski

Pat- It has been taught to me that pure repression of desires cuts out
the connection to the Force. There are ways of handling these desires and
there is that which we do that partakes of our desires, but the Force is
in them and so it is wise not to let go of them entirely until you are
able to sublimate and put it where it works for you in The Great Work. So
there are deductions then that a bad boy or yes, even a criminal still
has the force and an absolutley goody goody repressed person just doesn't
have it. Didn't Christ indicate something like that when he searched for
the lost ones and told the value of redeeming those? More than meets the
eye , we must read the texts on many levels. Anyway the next thought is
in the original message some of which is above. Yes, Don't let the flame
go out . Transcend until you know how to use it. Hitler perverted the
Force but he knew what he was doing and intended perversion.. We, of
course take the High Road as soon as we are able.
Wisa

"All there is, is Love."
"Truth is the order of the Universe"
Photopro@mint.net
Wisa

Tue May 28 12:35:33 1996
Subject: 0955 Pat Z. on worldly activities

Date: Mon, 27 May 96 23:24:31 -0000
From: photopro

So true that most important in the work is "Don't let the flame go out!"
Wisa

"All there is, is Love."
"Truth is the order of the Universe"
Photopro@mint.net
Wisa

Tue May 28 12:35:40 1996
Subject: 0956 TRUTH alchemical and otherwise

From: Jorge Enrique Lopez-Canales
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:33:05 +1000 (EST)

In response to Logodox,
Judging by the way you choose to name yourself I gather you have a keen
interest in exploring the workings of the logos. Indeed there is no such
thing as absolute TRUTH, at least not in our mediated world of language.
Once our forefathers ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
we got expelled from the beatific world of Eden, we can no longer see
Being 'as it is'. Paradise is lost and all we are left with is a
melancholic longing for truth.
The Platonic systematisation of logic into a formal discipline has much
to do with our obsessive compulsion for TRUTH. This was indeed
aggravated by Descartes and the modern scientific vision of the world.
Sensible appearances are meant to carry the measure of all truth and
certainty. Hence the incommensurability of chemistry in relation to
alchemy.
Parmenides and Heraclitus saw things in a different light. To these two
fine philosophers reality was always an unfinished process. 'Panta rei'
or 'everything is in flux' is Heraclitus's celebrated dictum. The logos
was what revealed Being as it came to pass, as it unconceiled itself, as
it became luminous. This process of understanding is what the Greeks
understood as 'aletheia', which has misleadingly been transliterated as
'truth' by most hermeneuts.
I am a cultural theorist and am currently doing research on the nature of
light and vision. I am particularly interested in the changes to our
cosmology that the invention of photography has brought about. Namely,
the immediate way in which we approach the world of images, which
disavows any deviation into metaphore or emblem. Notice the massive
production of alchemical emblematic literature that coincided with the
birth of modern science. To put it in Saussurian-speak this would have
been a revenge of the signified against the empire of the referent.
TRUTH against phantasm.

Kind regards from Melbourne, Australia.

Tue May 28 13:35:14 1996
Subject: 0957 Looking for Stibnite providers

From: Joel Tetard
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:27:35 +0000
Looking for materials used in Mineral alchemy I'll be very pleased to
have some adresses of dealers in antimony ore (Stibnite Sb2S3).

BTW I am looking for iron made with "low furnaces" (i.e. so-called
"swedish iron") !! :-)

Many thanks in advance.

Best wishes

Jo�l

Tue May 28 13:35:26 1996
Subject: 0958 Strindberg and Alchemy in France

Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:47:24 +0000
From: Joel Tetard

Kenneth �strand wrote in his post no 0921 on "Organic/unorganic Matter ?" :

de France. If someone know a little about this association I would be
very happy to hear a little, thank You!>

I found some information about this association. My sources are :

1 - F. Jollivet Castelot "Comment on devient Alchimiste. Trait�
d'Hermetisme et d'Art Spagyrique bas� sur les clefs du Tarot" (reprint
in 1988 of the 1897 original edition by Edition Rosicrucienne, 56 rue
Gambetta, 94190 Villeneuve-Saint-Georges, France).

2 - Genevieve Dubois, "Fulcanelli d�voil�", Editions Dervy, 91 boulevard
Saint Germain, 754006 Paris.

According to these sources, the Association Alchimique de France was founded
in 1896 by Doctors Encause (Gerard and his son), H.E. Lalande, F.Ch.
Barlet, Paul Sedir, M. de Guaita, Tabris and F. Jollivet Castelot (who
was chairman of the organisation).

The headquarters were located 5, rue de Savoie, in Paris.

The secretariat was established in Jollivert Castelot's home, 19 rue Saint
Jean, Douai (a town located in the North of France).

The Soci�t� Alchimique de France was a section of the Facult� des Sciences
Hermetiques.

In fact, this last group seems to be linked to Ecole Hermetique
(previously "Groupe Independant d'Etudes Esoterique") which provided
courses in their headquarters at 13, rue Seguier in Paris.

According to Genevieve Dubois, most of members were members of Martinist
groups and some of them were in touch with the Hermetic Brotherwood of
Luxor (which was the "inner circle"). F. Ch Barlet (1831-1921) who was the
manager of the French branch of this late group. According to some
sources, Paul S�dir, Papus, Chaboseau and Marc Haven were members of
HBL.

A great number of esoteric groups existed in Paris before the 1st World War and
it is very difficult to study them.

BRB to Soci�t� Alchimique de France. According to the official statutes,

"The main goal of the association (is) the theoretical and experimental
study of evolution and transmutation of bodies.

In order to achieve this goal, members studied processes developed by
ancient alchemists and compared them to modern works"
(1st of Statues of Association Alchimique de France)

The Association worked for the revival of "unitary doctrines" (what
about them ?!?) in :
- grouping lone researchers with *hyperchimy*
- providing help to people who are involved in alchemical researches.

A library and a laboratory were funded in order to achieve this goal.

*l'Hyperchimie" was a monthly review which published works of members
during about 10 years. Sedir was the Chief Editor and Jollivet
Castelot was the manager. From 1904 to 1914, the review was published
under the name of "Nouveaux horizons de la Science et de la Pensee". In
1920, it became "La Rose-Croix".

The Societe Alchimique de France stopped its activities some time before Jollivet
Castelot's death in 1939 in Douai.

Nowadays, archives from Martinist Order are said to be the property of
AMORC Order. I am not in touch with them.

Hope this information would help you.

Friendly wishes :-)

Jo�l

Tue May 28 19:29:36 1996
Subject: 0959 Heavy water properties

From: Joel Tetard
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 17:37:18 +0000
D/H ratio is almost constant in sea water but varies with temperature in
rainwater.

This ratio depends of the temperature of the air when steam appears. Due
to his more important mass heavy water needs more energy (heat) for
changing from liquid state to gaseous state

This ratio grows of 1,6ppm for each °C.

Best wishes.

Jo�l

Tue May 28 19:29:47 1996
Subject: 0960 Sunspots and alchemy

From: Joel Tetard
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:04:25 +0000
In a message dated 96-05-23 16:20:32 EDT, Peggy quoted:

>Are there reports of alchemic or spiritual "flops" during quiet sun
periods?
>(sorry if my question is naive :-))

I have no information about "spiritual flops" (I don't see what you
mean) but, maybe, the following data could be of some interest to you.

As you know, alchemy was practiced during all the historic area but some
"peaks" of activities could be observed.

Exploring the Alchemy Site on the Web, you'll find a very interesting
chart showing the history of alchemical publication in all languages.
Although this chart is more an indicator of publication activities
rather than a tool for measuring levels of alchemical researches, we can
assume there would be a link between these matters.

We note three main peaks : the first in 1560-70 - the second
1610-1620 during the 'Rosicrucian period' - and the third 1650-1685.

We could notice some coincidances :

The Rosicrucian Period (1610-1620) seems to have the same duration than
a whole solar cycle (11 years).

The last period (1650-1685) take place during the Maunder minimum
(1645-1715) when solar activity was very low and temperatures were
unspectable cold. In fact, Maunder period seems to be an anomaly because
such lower activities could be not linked to any of 11, 22 or 80 cycles.
Some authors imagine a super-cycle of 400 years.

Note French revolution (and Lavoiser's revolution too !) occured when
solar activities maximum (1789). The Bolshevic revolution occured during
similar peaks.

During the XX century, solar activity was maximum in 1917, 1929, 1937,
1948, 1957 (with a blust in 1961) 1973, 1980 and reached to its
historical maximum in February 1990.

There is an obvious link between minimal solar activity and low
temperature but we can't assume there is an effect on alchemy practice
even if some of heating furnaces were certainly *athanors* too! :-)

However a recent evidence of a possible link between solar activity and
failure in alchemy could be found in E. Canseliet "l'Alchimie
expliqu�e".

During the last days of January 1938, E. Canseliet worked of the final
Coction (Third Work and last step to the Stone in the Dry Path).

On 25th January, as an exceptional and unexpected aurora borealis covered
the largest part of Europe, the operation stopped suddenly . Ator�ne
("Le Laboratoire alchimique") thinks aurora and solar activities could
be the reason why this operation failed.

I share Ator�ne's opinion. As aurora are produced by the shock of
ionised particles (solar wind) with the upper levels of the atmosphere,
it would be possible that such high energy particules came to sea
level and stopped alchemical reactions.

Normally, during low solar periods, magnetic fields around the Earth are
quiet enough to protect its inhabitants from dangerous particles
coming from sun and outer space (cosmic rays). Ionised particules coming
from the Sun and outer space are "stacked" around the planet and form
the Van Allen Belts.

During solar paroxism, Earth magnetic shield can't stop all these
ionised particles. Following lines of the magnetic fields, these
particles enter the upper levels of atmosphere by the North and South
Poles, where the shield is weak. They react with atmospheric gas and
produce aurora and other electro-magnetic effect (magnetic storms for
instance).

I finish my message with a naive question too : what effects could have
such energetic particules on nuclear weapons ? I hope we have enough
time for looking to the answer : solar activity will reach to its
maximum about 2001. Normally...

Best wishes

Joel

Wed May 29 09:09:04 1996
Subject: 0961 Re: 0917 On Occult Training

Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:53:57 -0700
From: Sunshine Schmidt
George Randall Leake III wrote:-

> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:17:03 -0500
>
> >From: Alec Gathercole
> >Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:03:27 GMT
> >In post 0825 I objected to the Grail Message blanketing occult teachings as
> >inadvisable in its prelude of "Is Occult Training Advisable" when answering
> >its own question.
>
> *For one I'm still hazy on what the context is? What do you mean by "Grail
> Message"? I assume its the Holy Grail of Arthurian legend, of which there
> are dozens of interpretations. Which "occult teachings"?
>
> My intention was to separate out some activities which IMO
> >create the difficulties which the message highlights.
> >There are procedures in some cults which call themselves "occult groups",
> >that I am aware of, where practices are not far short of menticide and
> >brainwashing.
>
> *this is utterly meaningless which I have pointed out before and you
> refused to clarify. Which "cults" are you referring to? I am unaware of any
> "cults" that call themselves "occult groups" as you assert. And what do you
> mean by "brainwashing" and "menticide"? What exactly is this?
> *Moreover does anybody think this has any value to the study of alchemy?
> One person's vague generalizing I think is a waste of this forum's time.
>
> They use artefacts and stimulants that discredit our work
>
> *here we go again...
>
> >They use the same nomenclature as we have and leave their on our more
> >genuine and humane activities. There are many who have been adversely
> >affected by these groups if unequipped to withstand the suggestive
> >instructions received when their procedures are used. If the message had
> >highlighted the orthodox and soul purifying occult techniques I would not
> >have attempted to define occultism for it is a difficult task to document
> >information where so many differing connotations are placed on specific words.
>
> *did this guy just send out the same message or something?
>
> [edited for brevity]
>
> >Libido is essential though for the awakening of those higher senses as
> >clairinstinctus, clairscientia, clairvoyancia, and clairaudientia the
> >equations to which is intuition, reason, understanding, and wisdom as
> >outlined in QBL academia.
>
> *does anybody actually find this helpful?
>
> >May I conclude this contribution by saying I have enjoyed the past 3 months
> >reading your various postings on the forum, the private mail received and
> >the stimulation gained.
>
> *too bad you couldn't contribute with something a little more substantial
> or at least a little less vague.

Let me put it very simply - if you don't like what is presently being posted,
why waste your time reading and then responding to it? Is your life so dull
that you must mock others who are just trying to understand certain aspects
of the occult and of the holy grail, etc.? Sure, it probably doesn't belong
in this forum, but come on - your being rude to those who might not meet up
to your intellectual quota isn't really solving anything either. Next time
think about what your writing and how it may affect others. Be kind. Thank
you.

Sunshine Schmidt

--------------------------------------------------

Please, no more of this "Grail message" stuff. It arose from a misunderstanding. Let us lay this thread to rest.

Adam McLean

---------------------------------------------------

Wed May 29 09:09:19 1996
Subject: 0962 Looking for Stibnite providers

From: Norm Ryder
Date: Tue, 28 May 96 12:26 PDT
>From: Joel Tetard
>Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:27:35 +0000
>
>Looking for materials used in Mineral alchemy I'll be very pleased to
>have some adresses of dealers in antimony ore (Stibnite Sb2S3).

How much do you need. I can probably get some very good samples. It will
take me a three hike though rough bush country in to get it.

Norm Ryder
P.O.Box 271
Qualicum Beach B.C., Canada
V9K 1S8
nryder@qb.island.net

Wed May 29 09:09:27 1996
Subject: 0963 Looking for Stibnite providers

From: al4302
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 22:39:42 +0100
At 17:14 28/05/96 +0000, you wrote:
>From: Joel Tetard
>Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:27:35 +0000
>
>Looking for materials used in Mineral alchemy I'll be very pleased to
>have some adresses of dealers in antimony ore (Stibnite Sb2S3).
Why pay for stibnite when you can collect your own free, if
you have the money why not buy pharmacy antimony?

Wed May 29 12:10:22 1996
Subject: 0964 TRUTH, Alchemical & Otherwise

From: Rawn Clark
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 03:24:24 -0400
In a message dated 96-05-27 19:44:54 EDT, Logodox wrote:

>There exists NO absolute truth on the bi-polar, finite, causal plane...

An absolutist statement if I ever heard one! And where are we?
;-) Rawn Clark
28 May 96

Wed May 29 13:51:28 1996
Subject: 0965 TRUTH alchemical and otherwise

From: Logodox
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 05:08:28 -0500

Jorge Enrique Lopez-Canales wrote:-

>Judging by the way you choose to name yourself I gather you have a keen
>interest in exploring the workings of the logos. Indeed there is no such
>thing as absolute TRUTH, at least not in our mediated world of language.
>Once our forefathers ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
>we got expelled from the beatific world of Eden, we can no longer see
>Being 'as it is'. Paradise is lost and all we are left with is a
>melancholic longing for truth.
>The Platonic systematisation of logic into a formal discipline has much
>to do with our obsessive compulsion for TRUTH. This was indeed
>aggravated by Descartes and the modern scientific vision of the world.
>Sensible appearances are meant to carry the measure of all truth and
>certainty. Hence the incommensurability of chemistry in relation to
>alchemy.
>Parmenides and Heraclitus saw things in a different light. To these two
>fine philosophers reality was always an unfinished process. 'Panta rei'
>or 'everything is in flux' is Heraclitus's celebrated dictum. The logos
>was what revealed Being as it came to pass, as it unconceiled itself, as
>it became luminous. This process of understanding is what the Greeks
>understood as 'aletheia', which has misleadingly been transliterated as
>'truth' by most hermeneuts.
>I am a cultural theorist and am currently doing research on the nature of
>light and vision. I am particularly interested in the changes to our
>cosmology that the invention of photography has brought about. Namely,
>the immediate way in which we approach the world of images, which
>disavows any deviation into metaphore or emblem. Notice the massive
>production of alchemical emblematic literature that coincided with the
>birth of modern science. To put it in Saussurian-speak this would have
>been a revenge of the signified against the empire of the referent.
>TRUTH against phantasm.

Thank You Jorge for Your profound responose.

Are You familiar with Plotinus, Boehme, Eckhartshausen, and Atwood ?

My particular alchemical interests are a subset of "How It Works" insofar as this has extended to the whole thing (Universe). This of course leads one to ultimately back to "self" in terms of perception, mind, and being. In my obsessive drive to capture the phoenix, find the fleece, get the apples, regain paradise, etc have come to the conclusion that there probably exists only 1 being and 1 mind in ultimate actuality. This being/mind pre-exists the known material universe and its bangs. It is the "real" the "good" of Plotinus and emanates at all points as Boehme's fountain.

In the Alchemical emblem (Atalanta Fugiens ?) where a gentleman is pointing at a wall with figures of man/woman and emblem stating roughly: Make of a man & woman a circle, from the circle make a square, from the square make a triangle and from the triangle a new circle, I intrepret thusly: make 1 continuous spirit of the male/female force (flows in a circle), squaring the circle (makes four 4 the elements in preparation on a new generation), the triangle then represents the active, passive, and resulting manifestation of the new generation, and lastly the new circle represents the new circle of a unified spirit...

What do You think, Jorge ?

Best,

Logodox@Sound.Net

Fri May 31 10:24:43 1996
Subject: 0966 Stibnite : my reasons

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 07:49:40 +0000
From: Joel Tetard
Many thanks to Norm Ryder for his kind offer in reply to my request for
stibnite providers.

Unfortunately I think transport costs would be certainly too expensive
for my flat purse !
I guess Canadian friends of Alchemy would be interested by this offer.

Replying to the same request al4302 wrote:
the money why not buy pharmacy antimony?>

I do agree with al4302 : I have to go into the Deep Cave to catch the
tail of the Black Dragon, but not for saving money...

This is for two *philosophal* and important reasons :

First, according to Ancient Alchemist, commercial products are dead and
can't be used for the Work...

Second, people working in Alchemy have to collect or made themselves
what they need, from the smaller crucible to the athanor. Actually,
Alchemy paths are closed to people who want to have everything without
any personal effort.

For these reasons, I try to collect myself all products required by the
First Work.

On the other hand, I think I can use commercial products for
*non-alchemical* or preliminary experiences. This is the reason why I
didn't see any shame to ask for contacts.

Actually, the greatest part of the large family of antimony ores
(oxides and sulphides of antimony and other combined metals) could be
found in France, mainly in Auvergne (Central Highlands), Corsica and
Brittany. Some could be found in Alsace too (Als als...) ;-)

The main problem is most of antimony mines were dug many centuries ago
and are now exhausted. For obvious (?) safety reasons, most of them were
blocked under tons of sand or heavy stones. Others are inundated or too
dangerous...

However, some years ago, I did researches in specialized libraries.
According to Bureau de Recherche G�ologiques et Mini�res and Soci�t�
G�ologique de France, some mines were closed early in the XX century but
only for economical reasons (imported Antimony was less expensive than
native ore).

I don't think these mines would be blocked too because antimony was a
strategic metal and some mines were in activity during 1st WW again. For
this reason it would be possible to "scratch" some ore.

During past summers, I tried to find them but I failed because the bushes
are too deep and industrial vestiges seem to not exist any more (I am
glad to see al4302 has not such a problem and has a good dealer of
pharmacy products at the corner of his street!...).

Next Summer, I'll go to explore again some mines near Brioude and
Massiac. Don't hesitate to contact me if you want to struggle through the bushes with me !

Any suggestion or contact for crude antimony ore (from Eastern Europe or
Morocco for instance...) would be welcome too.

V.I.T.R.I.O.L.U.M. ....

Joel
alkaest@worldnet.fr

Fri May 31 12:13:29 1996
Subject: 0967 Strindberg and Alchemy in France

From: Kenneth �strand
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:17:34 +0200

Thanks Joel for great research on Association Alchimique de France(0958)!
You perhaps see if there are any references to Strindberg in Your referred
works:Jollivet Castelot, "Comments ..., and Duboi, Fulcanelli...?

Do you, or someone else, perhaps know if there are any original traces left
in France from the correspondence between Strindberg and his friend Jollivet
Castelot (Breviaire alchimique,1912)?

Kind wishes

Kenneth
kenneth.astrand@mail.nsb.norrkoping.se
"In heaven there's only Work" (Hlatky)

Sun Jun 02 14:39:24 1996
Subject: 0968 On Occult Training

Date: Thu, 30 May 96 08:20 NZST
From: Pat Zalewski
Sunshine wrote he thought George Leake was a little rude in having a go at
Alex Gathercole. Frankly reading Alex's post is like a blind man in a dark
room looking for a black cat the isn't there. All george was saying was get
to the point and stop waffling on. Your post implies that Alex is
intellectually backward when put against george. Well Alex is certainly not
backward intellectually and in that area I think you do him a disservice. He
just needs a rocket up his backside occasionally to make him get to the
point and george gave it to him.
Well Sunshine have a nice day!

Pat Zalewski

Mon Jun 03 09:13:58 1996
Subject: 0969 Alchemical imagery in art

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:07:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Anthony F Deluca
I am attempting to create the most complete listing of information on
painters' alchemy i.e. use of alchemical imagery in art...etc.

If any of you could kindly inform me, I would appreciate it.
Anthony DeLuca

Mon Jun 03 11:40:41 1996
Subject: 0970 Fungus

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 11:38:02
From: Douwe

Does anyone have experience in using fungus for the process, and if so,
could you tell about the results, and which kind you used?
I ask this because fungus has a whole kingdom to itself, because it is
neither mineral, vegetable, or animal, in fact it is all of them and none of
them.
I have more thoughts on this but I'll reserve that for the reactions.

douwe.

Mon Jun 03 11:40:51 1996
Subject: 0971 Request

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 12:11:34
From: Douwe
I might be well out of my place saying this, but I have a request:
I have noticed that more and more messages appear that fire and flame about
in a negative and unpleasant way.

To 'prove' your own 'greatness' by putting someone else down does prove the
opposite of what you try to accomplish, reacting on the flame does the same
as the afore mentioned.
Not reacting makes you truely humble, and humbleness makes the heavy veils
transparent.
Try it and you'll see that it works.

And apart from this... if you have a vessel and you want to make great and
clean things in it, then make sure that the vessel is clean too.
With other words, if you want to see great things to come from the forum,
then you'll have to keep it neat and clean in here too.

This is all about nothing else but 'casting the First Stone?' in both its
exoteric, and esoteric meanings.

douwe.

Mon Jun 03 19:27:42 1996
Subject: 0972 FRENCH: Stibnite

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 10:16:32 -0400
From: Gilbert Arnold

Monsieur Tetard,

J'aurais deux suggestions pour vous aider a obtenir de la stibine;

1) Communiquer avec la filiation Solazaref; ce groupe semble bien
connaitre les mines dans votre pays.

2) Communiquer aussi avec PON USA; peut etre que ce groupe pourrait
suggerer d'autres sources.

Bonne chance !
+Gilbert

Mon Jun 03 19:27:52 1996
Subject: 0973 Request

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:14:38 -0400
From: Jfruther

Douwe, you are so right!!!

Mon Jun 03 22:12:15 1996
Subject: 0974 Timeline of alchemists

I have today added a new timeline of alchemists to the Web site. I would welcome any feedback on any substantial figure which I have left out from the chart.

Thanks

Adam McLean

Mon Jun 03 22:48:08 1996
Subject: 0975 Fungus

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 08:58:51 -1000
From: Anastasy Tynan

> Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 11:38:02
> From: Douwe
>
> Does anyone have experience in using fungus for the process,

Yeast, of course, is a fungus that facilitates fermentation.

Cheers,
A.

Mon Jun 03 22:48:16 1996
Subject: 0976 Fungus

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:42:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Morgan Saletta

> Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 11:38:02
> From: Douwe
>
> Does anyone have experience in using fungus for the process, and if so,
> could you tell about the results, and which kind you used?
> I ask this because fungus has a whole kingdom to itself, because it is
> neither mineral, vegetable, or animal, in fact it is all of them and none of
> them.
> I have more thoughts on this but I'll reserve that for the reactions.
>
> douwe.
My own initial introduction to alchemy began with experimentation with
certain "philosophical agents". Although this began as practice, it soon
led to scholarly interest on my part, one very interesting book is
Wasson's, The Elusian Mysteries, which has a chapter by Albert Hoffman on
the possible use of ergot in wine. Wasson was the first ethnobotanist to
explore the mushroom cult of certain native people's in Mexico. Is this
topic one which others are interested in discussing on the Alchemy forum?
I would like feedback.

Tue Jun 04 08:28:00 1996
Subject: 0977 Fungus

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 96 09:48 NZST
From: Pat Zalewski
Douwe

Some years ago I worked with fungus from an orange but found that the heat
tended to destroy the experiment. I wanted to produce an alchemists version
of penicillin but have struck out. Using a fungus with heat causes too many
problems. I could only work it through maceration but was not happy with the
results. I have had a thought that phjaps this could be done in a vacuum but
have not yet got round to it.

Pat zalewski

Tue Jun 04 08:28:13 1996
Subject: 0978 Attraction to worldly activities that deplete our libido

From: Maurizio Galaverni
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:38:32 +0000 (MET)
> Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 22:18:13 -0400
> From: ROBITAILLE , GEORGES

> Good post Pat Zalewski . It helps me introduce a remark . I have been
> reading posts on this list for a few weeks and haven't seen any comment or
> discussion on the psychological meanings of alchemy . I have much respect
> for the laboratory aspect of alchemy but the oratory and its mystical ( dare
> I say psychological ) aspects are IMO the core of it . The life, evolution
> and the fulfillment of the psyche are IMO superbly demonstrated by alchemy .
> C.G. Jung major books on alchemy and now some of his "followers" Jungian
> psychanalysts are trying to keep digging in this "materia prima" to deepen
> our scientific knowledge of the human soul .
> I think that it is good for alchemy that it be looked at from different
> perspectives and I must say that when I read Jung and then read different
> mystics I don't see any fundamental opposition I see a space for enriching
> exchange .
> Any comments ?
psychanalysis needs alchemy but alchemy doesn't need psychanalysis ;-)

Tue Jun 04 08:28:24 1996
Subject: 0979 Fungus

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 04:37:53 +0200 (MET DST)
From: douwe

>My own initial introduction to alchemy began with experimentation with
>certain "philosophical agents". Although this began as practice, it soon
>led to scholarly interest on my part, one very interesting book is
>Wasson's, The Elusian Mysteries, which has a chapter by Albert Hoffman on
>the possible use of ergot in wine. Wasson was the first ethnobotanist to
>explore the mushroom cult of certain native people's in Mexico. Is this
>topic one which others are interested in discussing on the Alchemy forum?
>I would like feedback.

I would like to say that I didn't mean to ask about mushrooms in
soma-cult-like ways, I don't need drugs for that kind of thing, but I
wondered about fungus as being an worked upon in a spagyric way.
For as far as I know, fungi emit highly volatile parts as they dissolve
minerals, and organic materials trough the use of some rare acids.
Further I am thinking of many references of Paracelsus about the great value
of certain fungi, and the fact that it is used to produce penicillin (about
which I wonder if it can't be made spagyricly), here and there you come
across some references in the alchemical literature which also might apply
to fungus.
I further understand that some fungi contain many minerals (that have been
made digestible), etc...
All of this makes it interesting for me to find out more about it, even if
it only where in a biological or chemical kind of way.
I am just curious about it.

douwe.

Tue Jun 04 10:55:41 1996
Subject: 0980 Alchemical imagery in art

From: Bernard Guilet
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 09:55:16 +0200
> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:07:33 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Anthony F Deluca
> I am attempting to create the most complete listing of information on
> painters' alchemy i.e. use of alchemical imagery in art...etc.
>
> If any of you could kindly inform me, I would appreciate it.
>
> Anthony DeLuca
I would recommend the excellent book in french
from Mr. Jacques Van Lennep
titled "Alchimie" or "L'histoire de l'art alchimique".
Edition Dervy (France)
ISBN 2-85076-015-3

This book was first published by "Le Credit Communal de Belgique"
for their exhibition on the subject in 1994-1995.

Bernard Guilet

Tue Jun 04 13:34:33 1996
Subject: 0981 Fungus

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:21:20 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19960602140916.1f47b48a@xs4all.nl>
>Douwe
>Some years ago I worked with fungus from an orange but found that the heat
>tended to destroy the experiment. I wanted to produce an alchemists version
>of penicillin but have struck out. Using a fungus with heat causes too many
>problems. I could only work it through maceration but was not happy with the
>results. I have had a thought that phjaps this could be done in a vacuum but
>have not yet got round to it.
>
>Pat zalewski

Thanks for the information, but could you tell about the degree of heat
destroyed your work?
douwe.
P.S. (Distillation on lower temperatures work even better then on higher
temperatures, in a months time I have (in the process of a (so far) useful
experiment) been distilling about 650ml of water over.
It goes over on 39/40-degrees Celsius (this is the vapor, the contents of
the flask is about 10-C' warmer) without using a vacuum at all, because the
use of it would be too aggressive for what I am doing.
Distilling on even lower temperatures using a vacuum would work equally
well, but you need some patience with it.)

Tue Jun 04 16:42:26 1996
Subject: 0982 Attraction to worldly activities that deplete our libido

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:23:54 -0500
From: George Randall Leake III
>> From: ROBITAILLE , GEORGES
>>The life, evolution
>> and the fulfillment of the psyche are IMO superbly demonstrated by alchemy .
>> C.G. Jung major books on alchemy and now some of his "followers" Jungian
>> psychanalysts are trying to keep digging in this "materia prima" to deepen
>> our scientific knowledge of the human soul .

>From: Maurizio Galaverni
>psychanalysis needs alchemy but alchemy doesn't need psychanalysis ;-)

*obviously many subjects need greater understanding. One wonders how
Galaverni can imply that Jung's investigation into alchemy involves
"psychanalysis"...

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu

Tue Jun 04 20:02:29 1996
Subject: 0983 Alchemical imagery in art

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:53:21 -0500
From: George Randall Leake III

>From: Bernard Guilet
>Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 09:55:16 +0200
> I would recommend the excellent book in french
> from Mr. Jacques Van Lennep
> titled "Alchimie" or "L'histoire de l'art alchimique".
> Edition Dervy (France)
> ISBN 2-85076-015-3

*just wanted to forward this back to everyone, especially since it looks so
interesting...anyhow this should clear up things for those who are looking
for it (note the slight but important author/title entries)

AUTHOR: Lennep, Jacques.
TITLE: Alchimie : contribution a l'histoire de l'art alchimique /
Jacques van Lennep.
EDITION: 2.ed., rev. et augm.
PUBLISHED: (Bruxelles) : Credit communal, 1985.
DESCRIPTION: 501 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 31 cm.
NOTES: Catalog of an exhibition held 1984-1985 in Brussels at the
Credit communal de Belgique.
Includes indexes.
Bibliography: p. 475-(478)
SUBJECTS: Alchemy in art--Exhibitions.
Alchemy--Exhibitions.
Signs and symbols in art--Exhibitions.
OTHER AUTHORS: Credit communal de Belgique
ISBN: 2850760153
OCLC NUMBER: 14282390

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu

Tue Jun 04 21:10:58 1996
Subject: 0984 Fungus

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:27:49 +0000
From: Mark Bennett

Hi,

While not strictly alchemy, it is a fungus doing weird things. With soem of
the attributes similar to the partaking of the stone. (getting younger)

Kombucha is at least 2,000 years old and is a colony of bacteria and yeast
living in a lichien host that reproduces itself through binary fission each
time you make a batch. It looks like a round soggy pitabread.

There was a post a while back about how cutting edge pharamcuticals were
being made with modified bacterias and yeast. Interestingly Kombucha does
similar type of thing but has been around for a long time.

Current test show it to be 92% as effective as the much hyped drug 'Interferon'.

I'm not going into anymore detials. Go to www.sease.com/kombucha for
articles, FAQ and testimonials.

If your in the UK/Europe and interested I'll post a colony.

Tue Jun 04 21:11:08 1996
Subject: 0985 Psychological interpretations of alchemy

From: Rex Phillips
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:29:34 -0700k
I agree with the post put up by Maurizio Galaverni
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:38:32 +0000 (MET) about more psychological
discussion. I would also like to see more psychological interpretations
on the subject of alchemy such as are found in Adam's book the Alchemical Mandala.

--
matthew phillips

Tue Jun 04 21:42:46 1996
Subject: 0986 Fungus

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:13:14 -0700
From: Josh
At 10:49 PM 6/3/96 +0000, Morgan Saletta wrote:

>My own initial introduction to alchemy began with experimentation with
>certain "philosophical agents". Although this began as practice, it soon
>led to scholarly interest on my part, one very interesting book is
>Wasson's, The Elusian Mysteries, which has a chapter by Albert Hoffman on
>the possible use of ergot in wine. Wasson was the first ethnobotanist to
>explore the mushroom cult of certain native people's in Mexico. Is this
>topic one which others are interested in discussing on the Alchemy forum?
>I would like feedback.

Morgan,

Very much of interest, if there's any (not too remote) connection to
alchemy. Otherwise more appropriate for the good scholars over at alt.drugs.

Best,

/jcs

Wed Jun 05 12:52:04 1996
Subject: 0987 Psychological interpretations of alchemy

Date: 05 Jun 96 04:42:18 EDT
From: Marvin Lowes

I have been
> reading posts on this list for a few weeks and haven't seen any comment or
> discussion on the psychological meanings of alchemy . I have much respect
> for the laboratory aspect of alchemy but the oratory and its mystical ( dare
> I say psychological ) aspects are IMO the core of it . The life, evolution
> and the fulfillment of the psyche are IMO superbly demonstrated by alchemy .
> C.G. Jung major books on alchemy and now some of his "followers" Jungian
> psychanalysts are trying to keep digging in this "materia prima" to deepen
> our scientific knowledge of the human soul .
> I think that it is good for alchemy that it be looked at from different
> perspectives and I must say that when I read Jung and then read different
> mystics I don't see any fundamental opposition I see a space for enriching
> exchange .
> Any comments ?

Whooosh! The wonder of this list is its attention to materials and their
transformation!

Take the "oratory" and the "mystical" elsewhere and keep this list for alchemy!

The world is a BIG place :-)

Marv

----------------------------------------------------

Added by Adam McLean. PLEASE NOTE that the "oratory" and the "mystical" are part of alchemy. This strength of this list is its freedom to explore alchemy is all its facets - mystical, spiritual, psychological, chemical. Anyone who has studied alchemy, will recognise that alchemists of all ages explored simultaneously the mystical and the material. Indeed it is this interweaving of the spiritual and the material that has kept alchemy alive for thousands of years, and will continue to make it relevant for the future.

The alchemy forum should not and will not be restricted (as Marvin seems to wish) to one particular facet of the alchemical tradition. Various theads of discussion on the forum come into focus and then dissolve away again, but anyone reading the alchemy forum archives will see that all the facets of the subject are explored in depth.

Adam McLean

-----------------------------------------------

Wed Jun 05 17:11:14 1996
Subject: 0988 Fungus

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 09:52:17 -0500 (EST)
From:OISPEGGY

From: Morgan Saletta

>My own initial introduction to alchemy began with experimentation with
>certain "philosophical agents". Although this began as practice, it soon
>led to scholarly interest on my part, one very interesting book is
>Wasson's, The Elusian Mysteries, which has a chapter by Albert Hoffman on
>the possible use of ergot in wine. Wasson was the first ethnobotanist to
>explore the mushroom cult of certain native people's in Mexico. Is this
>topic one which others are interested in discussing on the Alchemy forum?
>I would like feedback.

I'd like to hear about it. Seems to me this would be appropriate
if discussed within an alchemical frame of reference.

Regards,

- Peggy -

Wed Jun 05 17:11:24 1996
Subject: 0989 Psychological interpretations of alchemy

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:55:13 -0500
From: George Randall Leake III

>From: Rex Phillips
>I agree with the post put up by Maurizio Galaverni
>Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:38:32 +0000 (MET) about more psychological
>discussion. I would also like to see more psychological interpretations
>on the subject of alchemy such as are found in Adam's book the Alchemical
>Mandala.
>matthew phillips

*hey Mr. Phillips, please next time include your email address so I don't
have to write to the whole group. I'm pretty sure Galaverni characterized
"psychanalysis" in a negative light, thus not encouraging further
discussion on Jung...actually why don't you initiate the discussion
yourself with a question that's been nagging you?

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu

Wed Jun 05 17:11:33 1996
Subject: 0990 Psychological interpretations of alchemy

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 96 10:43:20 -0000
From: photopro
>> I have been
>> reading posts on this list for a few weeks and haven't seen any comment or
>> discussion on the psychological meanings of alchemy....
>>I think that it is good for alchemy that it be looked at from different
>> perspectives and I must say that when I read Jung and then read different
>> mystics I don't see any fundamental opposition I see a space for enriching
>> exchange .
>> Any comments ?

>"Whooosh! The wonder of this list is its attention to materials and their
>transformation!

>Take the "oratory" and the "mystical" elsewhere and keep this list for
>alchemy!

>The world is a BIG place :-)"

Marvin,

Whether we call it psychology or philososphy or alchemy It is
Transcendence, Transformation, change, SPIRIT we are talking about. And
if you think that you can be successful and not consider the symbolic
true meanings of Alchemy, my dear, you are wasting your time with
materials and their transformation. For it is YOU that we are talking
about and YOU that is being transformed (or not!) Lose or chase those
who know this Truth from your discussion group and you are lost in the
maze of materiality. Shakepeare said it all when he said "Awake, awake."

Wisa

"All there is, is Love."
"Truth is the order of the Universe"
Photopro@mint.net
Wisa

Wed Jun 05 17:11:42 1996
Subject: 0991 Subject: Re: 0987 Psychological interpretations of alchemy

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:59:36 +0000
From: Jon Sharp

I have been intrigued by what I have recently read on the forum:
moss,dew,fungus etc...

I am not dismissing the material aspect of alchemy, although I do believe
that material enquiry shoud be directional. Historically my understanding,
though I am open to correction, is that the earliest alchemists were
employing material techniques to achieve "the great work" - not so
different from many non alchemical occultists.

Indeed those who spent their time wholly bent over charcoal burners were
much ridiculed.

I posted once before, only once, and some encouraging replies regarding the
spiritual/psychological importance of alchemy.

One book in particular Evola's "Hermetic Art" opened my eyes to the
symbology and purpose of the alchemical work.

I would be very interested to see some comments by contributors regarding
their position re:the occult/spiritual significance and how they explain
the terms used in traditional alchemy.

Yours seeking truth - Jon 777
Jon Sharp
Administrative Assistant
School of Information Systems
Tel (01603) 592801
Email sharp@sys.uea.ac.uk

Wed Jun 05 17:22:55 1996
Subject: 0992 Psychological interpretations and Art

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:06:28 -0400
From: Peter Principle
>The alchemy forum should not and will not be restricted (as Marvin seems to
>wish) to one particular facet of the alchemical tradition. Various theads of
>discussion on the forum come into focus and then dissolve away again, but
>anyone reading the alchemy forum archives will see that all the facets of
>the subject are explored in depth.
>
>Adam McLean

Thank you Adam

As a lurker on the list for a long time, I have seen numerous attempts at
broadening the discussion to include interpretations of the images
published in alchemical literature snubbed.

I would like to enter the following quotation from Goethe as an explanation
of my naive interest in alchemia.

"If one concerns oneself with alchemy in a poetic sense, as it may indeed
be termed, keeping an open mind about it, it has the power to lead us to
very enjoyable thoughts; until at last we come to a fairy tale which has
its source in universal images, and in turn is created upon the foundations
of the pheneomena of Nature.
-Goethe, 1830

As an artist I have long been fascinated by the images of De Bry and Merian
and have been introduced to this subject through them and the surrealists
usage of such in collage.

My work in music and sound engineering lead me to observe the mechanics of
inductive resonance and it's hermetic implications and I feel these images
to be a visual equivalent, setting off all manner of harmonic sympathies in
the viewer.

All that I have thought on the subject of hermetics, semiotics and the
quest for a universal language of symbols has influenced my activities as
an artist, and it is for personal insights and inspiration for my work that
I read this very stimulating list.

As all analogies can fire the resonances I referred to, it matters not that
the framework here is mostly physical, but I too would welcome a view of
these topics through some of the vast wealth of perspectives available from
the minds of the subscribers here.

BTW I had the great honor to see the Credit Communal exhibit in Brussels
and highly recommend the catalog/book by van Lennep mentioned in some other
posts.

Peter Principle

Wed Jun 05 17:23:04 1996
Subject: 0993 Alchemical imagery in art

George Leake gives us the full bibliographical details of the van Lennep book. This book/catalogue was also issued in Dutch (and I also believe there was a German edition), but unfortunately not in English.

-Adam McLean

----------------------

AUTHOR: Lennep, Jacques.
TITLE: Alchimie : contribution a l'histoire de l'art alchimique /
Jacques van Lennep.
EDITION: 2.ed., rev. et augm.
PUBLISHED: (Bruxelles) : Credit communal, 1985.
DESCRIPTION: 501 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 31 cm.
NOTES: Catalog of an exhibition held 1984-1985 in Brussels at the
Credit communal de Belgique.
Includes indexes.
Bibliography: p. 475-(478)

Wed Jun 05 22:20:22 1996
Subject: 0994 Levi's take on the Great Work

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:16:25 -0500
From: George Randall Leake III
Just wanted to start a new thread. This from A.E. Waite's translation of
Eliphas Levi's Transcendental Magic (ISBN # 1-85891-379-9), pp 344-5:

All masters in alchemy who have written concerning the Great Work have
employed symbolical and figurative expressions, and have been right in so
doing, not only to deter the profane from operations which would be
dangerous for them, but to make themselves intelligible to adepts by
revealing the entire world of analogies which is ruled by the one and
sovereign dogma of Hermes...Considered as religion, it is that of the
ancient Magi and the initiates of all the ages; as a philosophy, its
principles may be found in the school of Alexandria and in the theories of
Pythagoras; as science, its principles must be sought from Paracelsus,
Nicholas Flamel and Raymund Lully. The science is true only for those who
accept and understand the philosophy and religion, while its processes are
successful only for the adept who has attained sovereign volition, and has
thus become monarch of the elementary world, for the Great Aent of the
solar work is that force described in the Hermetic Symbol of the Emerald
Table

Any comments?

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu

Wed Jun 05 22:44:31 1996
Subject: 0995 Mystical/spiritual interpretation of alchemy

It seems to me that some people erroneously believe that alchemy began as a way of working with material substance, and that this later became overlaid with the mystification of allegorical and spiritual interpretations during the 16th and 17th centuries. Such people consequently believe that there must be a "pure" alchemical work with material substances which can be somehow be rediscovered and recovered.

This view does not correspond to the facts of the alchemical tradition. Some of the earliest alchemical documents known,which date from the first few centuries A.D., for example, the Zosimos tracts, are allegorical and spiritual. See the transcriptions on the alchemy web site. The Emerald tablet itself is obviously not a instruction book for laboratory work - and although some alchemists and commentators have interpreted it in this way, this is really only one valid interpretation. Many of the early documents of European alchemy are allegorical.

The truth is - for those who base their understanding of alchemy on the documents, rather than on some fixed belief system - that spiritual allegorisation is inseparable from the work with matter. Alchemy cannot be reduced to one simplistic interpretation. That is what has preserved its life for over two millenia. Few philosophies or world views have survived so long.

Adam McLean

Thu Jun 06 07:04:50 1996
Subject: 0996 Psychological interpretations of alchemy

From: Rex Phillips
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 16:29:11 -0700
Dear George,
To tell you the truth I have been a bit intimidated by this forum. Maybe
impressed is a better term. At your cue, I shall initiate a couple
intimations towards a topic for discussion: I am an art history weirdo,
so that is where I am coming from. I am interested in alchemy as it is
found in art. I am interested in visual culture's ability to transform.
I bought Adam's book The Alchemical Mandala mainly because of the fab
reproductions which I had been trying to find for quite awhile. At the
time I cared little if the text therein was totally dumb I was just
totally fascinated by the art because it tied so many threads together
in such an artful manner. As it turned out I really enjoyed a lot of
what is said in that book (though I have only read about 2/5 of the book
so far) which was sort of an extra bonus I didn't count on. Maps of
consciousness, qabala, magic, rosicrucianism, eastern traditions etc.
all united under one original and intelligent heading, as they should be
if we want to be true to the cultural anthropological tradition as I
understand it is currently formulated and if we want to have a more
compact intellectual understanding of various visual cultures. It seems
that the larger mass of people are erroneously encouraged to separate
all these things which have belonged together from the beginning and I
really appreciate critical attempts, like Adam's, to explain the unity
found in apparently diverse things.
Let me confess, I am a beginner at this whole alchemy thing. But I am
sincerely interested in the subject. So this shall serve as a beginning
for me. Any of the threads alluded to in this letter should interest me
greatly if anyone were to pick them up. I would be glad to speak of
these things with any and all concerned, as well as things which are
obviously related to these threads which I have mentioned. My best
regards to all on this forum.
matt
zingo@sprynet.com

Thu Jun 06 07:04:58 1996
Subject: 0997 Psychological interpretation

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:16:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: R. Brzustowicz
I have generally felt that the stress on laboratory alchemy here was
something of a compensation (or over-compensation) for the
psycho-spiritual interpretations of alchemy -- and especially the
psychological reductionisms -- that have been one of the dominant views of
the subject during much of this century.

But it's as pointless to exclude psychological and spiritual
interpretations as it is to insist that they are the only ones that work.

R Brzustowicz (brz@u.washington.edu)

Thu Jun 06 07:05:15 1996
Subject: 0998 Psychological interpretation

Date: Thu, 6 Jun 96 14:22 NZST
From: Pat Zalewski
One method I used as a base for working into the psychological side of
alchemy was to break things down into the seven steps and the twelve steps
(leaving aside the three primary steps in this instance) . The 12 I
associated to the Zodiac signs and the 7 to the esoteric planetary
meanings. Its a good start in the right direction and I took it because I
dabble a little in astrology. Baulbault tries to explain one aspect of this
in Gold of a Thousand mornings. Fabricius picked up where Baubault left off
and lent to more an astrological profile. The 12 steps is a good place to
start if anyone can agree of what the 12 steps are.

Thu Jun 06 07:25:16 1996
Subject: 0999 physical vs. spiritual

From: Rawn Clark
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 00:07:25 -0400
To me, the philosophy and imagery of Alchemy describe a
Universe wherein there is no separation between spirit and
matter; where spirit is immanent and matter is seen to be alive.
This matches my experience. A consequence of such a
Universe as this is that there is not a single aspect of our
physical existence which is separate from our spiritual path of
pursuit. What we so blithely term spiritual-alchemy has definite
physical consequences. Just as what we term physical-alchemy
has spiritual consequences. They are inseperable. To me, this
clearly points to the fact that it is our individual focus which is at
issue here, not the specific focus of Alchemy itself. Alchemia
has broad arms, eager to embrace the serious suitor. What we
find in Her embrace depends upon what we are searching for,
and since we take ourselves wherever we go, we inevitably come
face to face with ourselves along the Way.

:) Rawn Clark
5 Jun 96

Thu Jun 06 10:49:42 1996
Subject: 1000 Fungus - Kombucha

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 96 22:05:04 0000
From: Danny Torbica
Dear Mark

Please send me a culture if possible.

My address is

Danny Torbica
34, Canterbury Road
Penn
Wolverhampton
WV4 4EH
England

d.s.torbica@open.ac.uk

Many thanks and I hope to talk to you about it.

danny