Alchemy Forum 1201-1250

From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 1201-1250.
Go to next 50 messages . Back to forum archive.

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:26:20 +0000
Subject: 1201 Plant mutations/communication

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:06:44 -0600
From: fisher1

True, JCW, a difference between plant guides and synthetic derivatives. Yet
another consciousness appears via experienced teachers in ceremonies as in
the Native American Church (peyote) or in the Uniao do Vegetal
(ayahuasca-the chateaubrand of induced enlightened states). These induced
states are valuable on the esoteric path of self transformation/evolution.
Like anything else it's easy to get stuck there in a state of
illusion/delusion/Maya, or, qabalistically, in a state of Yesod (Crowley).
What notable ascended masters that you can think of spent much time in that
realm? Drugs are bikes with training wheels. At some point the wheels come
off. At another point, the bike disappears. Ultimately you fly as light.
Esoterically the importance of tasting the flavors of various consciousness
levels is paramount but who wants ice cream as a regular entree? The
importance of getting what you require from other realm and getting back
intact to put it into practical application in the laboratory is the whole
idea, isn't it?

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:28:00 +0000
Subject: 1202 Plant mutations/communication

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:14:23 -0700
From: AW

Thank you for your response in this matter John [posting 1193]. You have
cited the only
situation that I could possibly endorse in this matter...

In the elements..Andy

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 21:01:51 +0000
Subject: 1203 Allow me to introduce myself. . .

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 10:45 PDT
From: tackamelissa

I'm new to the list. In fact, I'm also quite new to the concept of alchemy.
I'd like suggestions on where to begin my studies. (books, www sites, etc.)
Thanx much.

peace, Love, b wild,
theartsitcurrentlyknownasmelissa

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 21:03:43 +0000
Subject: 1204 Lab Equipment

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 13:25:22 CDT
From: dan hill ON RA SERVER

I am in the proccess of building a new lab. Is the use of slate tables a
neccessity, or can some other form of material work? Also, does anyone know
of a source for fume hood enclosures?

Also, what kind of drainage and sinks should one use? I wouldn't want to
just flush chemicals into the sewer system.

I was thinking of using a recycling pipe for my distilation cooling. What
volume of water would be adequate for a TWO foot distilation tube or a ONE
foot soxeletic extractor?

thanks,

AVE,
dan

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 21:05:20 +0000
Subject: 1205 Allow me to introduce myself

Dear tackamelissa,

We don't yet have a Frequently Asked Questions file on the alchemy forum,
although we do get a number of people each month asking for general
information on alchemy from the point of view of newcomers to the subject.
There is a substantial web site on alchemy at

http://www.levity.com/alchemy

which covers the subject from many facets. Perhaps you should read your way
through some of this material, then you can ask more penetrating questions
which might spark of a good response from some of the contributors to the forum.

With best wishes,

Adam McLean

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 08:10:21 +0000
Subject: 1206 Stibnite/oil of metals

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:23:56 +0000
From: Barry Carter

Dear Friends,

I have not heard of the oil of gold before. The references in recent
posts have little information about what it is and what it's
properties are. Why is it called the oil of gold? Is it related to
the white powder of gold? Does the oil of gold dry to the white
powder? It it like an oil in water or in acid? What color is it?

With Kindest Regards,

Barry Carter

Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 08:12:00 +0000
Subject: 1207 Lab Equipment

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 17:04 NZST
From: Pat Zalewski

Dan

when you think distillation try and think about the use of a large retort,
for with one you do not need a distillation train. Any retort over 2000 mls
is helpful. In all the years I have worked with alchemy only twice do i ever
remember putting a wet towel over the beak of the retort to cool it.

Pat zalewski

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 18:27:15 +0000
Subject: 1208 Gold/bacteria

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 14:16:45 +0100 (BST)
From: D.R.Williams

The plant would not have produced the gold! The gold around the roots of
the plat would have been as a result of water evaporation. This gold
would have been held in water suspension in microscopic amounts too small
for the prospector to trace in the surrounding soil. It would then have
accumulated in the soil arround the plant roots over many years!
David R. Williams
Dpt. Welsh History
UCNW
BANGOR
Arfon
Wales
hiu166@bangor.ac.uk

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 18:30:07 +0000
Subject: 1209 FRENCH: Lambsprinck

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:26:44 +0200
From: J.Dauge

Aux Amis francophones.

J' ai ajoute sur mon site le texte complet de Lambsprink (La transcripion
est l'oeuvre de Mr Coulombe)

J' y ai ajoute une observation curieuse, a mon avis sur la Rose,tiree du
journal des Savants (1665).
Si vous touvez ce texte judicieux, pour les membres Anglophones de ce Forum,
vous pouver le traduire et le publier.

Amicalement

-----------------

J.Dauge : jed@worldnet.fr

http://myweb.worldnet.fr/~jed/homepage.html

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 20:56:14 +0000
Subject: 1210 Christians and mysticism

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 13:59:51 -0400
From: Jon Evans, Writer at Large

ayindaath (and others)

This is not entirely (or even remotely) the right list to answer this
question, but I'll get into it as briefly as I can so that others do not have
to deal with unnecessary traffic.

In the beginning, there were Gods. That much is true for any aspect of
Christianity. YHVH was a mountain god, not all that powerful in the totallity
of things. As his popularity grew, he became the embodiment of the most
powerful god. Finally, he started a sort of religious war between the jews and
everyone else and said, "They're all blasphemers and should die". Or something
to that effect. Essentially, he claimed to be the One True god, and that all
others were false. Now, this is interesting because he had to build up a
following before this could happen. Almost an alchemical change from minor
deity to one and only powerful being (hey, I had to try to tie alchemy in here
somehow :).

Anyway, that's the short of it. Also remember that one of the original ten
commandments was "Thou Shalt not put any god before me." Litteral translation?
There are other gods, but to follow my religion, you have to worship me more
than the others.

For a complete, and more accurate version, check out The History of
Christianity, The Unauthorized Version. Also, The Origin of Satan is rather
revealing.

Lateron,
-Jon

Jon Evans Cycling Commuter at Large
Writer/Trainer/Philosopher jevans@autometric.com

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 20:58:03 +0000
Subject: 1211 Definition of Hermes

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 20:00:00 +0200 (MET DST)
From: douwe

>One would need first of all to define what precisely is meant by
>"hermetically" inspired music - if indeed it has any real meaning at all.
>In Greek mythology Hermes was the messenger of the gods and the
>guide of travellers. I assume that you mean hermetic in the sense of
>derived or deriving from the Hidden Wisdom (whatever one chooses
>to understand by that term, itself in need of definition).

Hermetics: Is beyond matter in a vacuum of space, where nothing being is
part of the natural laws (of dualism) can exist.
In this place opposites join, or better opposite pairs find each other as if
they found them self, and join inseparably.
In this vacuum there is no personality but only a transmission of IT, which
is even beyond this hermetic field.
You could say that it is neither this Heaven or earth, but you could call it
the New Heaven and Earth, as pointed out in Revelations.

The messenger-part is the transmission between IT and the world.
This is also why Toth is the god of science and the inventor of writing.
This writing is actually the arrangement of matter, which is likewise stated
in the first line of the Sepher Yetzirah 'With 30 and 2 paths of
wonderful-(the word is PLYAVTh, which kabbalisticlally means transmission)
wisdom (Hokmah) ENGRAVED: IH, IHVH TzBAVTh, ALHI IShRAL, etc...'
The engraving (ChQQ), or writing is the harmonious shaping of prime-matter,
and by this initial movement, the laws are made trough which any science is
enabled to exist.
(Because of this you find the image of Hermes holding a book in which a
winged and a wingless bird are biting each tail. This is a symbol of solve
et coagula, or better the movement of matter.)

(Not long ago (message #1028) I have made a connection between the name
C.Rosencreutz and the word Beginning (BRAShITh) once, what I meant there
holds true here in this place, in fact most I wrote over there applies here
as well)

Hermes is three times great, because he is three in one, he rearranges the
soul, the spirit and the body, by the same way of his engraving
rectification, or rearranging of matter, (like this he stands just after the
beginning and just before the end when the heart is being weighed.
The writing can been seen like 'the writing on the heart', as it is called
in the bible, or 'God who reads all hearts and kidneys', because the heart
has been given a new radiation, or a new world to live in, it received a
polarity which is not of this world.
(BTW, by 'the kidneys' is meant, the polarity of the denser body... etc.)

I again hope that it is understood what I try to make clear by writing all
of this, because I try to give more information then just only some
additional weight to the brain.

Hmmm... I completely forgot to say about hermetic music, to my idea this
music is approaching the laws of harmony to such extent that they resonate
at the deepest base of your soul, to awake a seed, or a fire, which is
hidden there and to feed it and to make it grow.
This is not a question of taste (as I believe) but of subtlety of harmony,
and a ability on the side of the composer to follow these subtle radiations
(engravings) and to translate them into their denser counterparts as sounds.
(the only shame is that the performer doesn't always seem to be able to
perform it according to the insight of the composer, it makes is annoying
sometime to listen to music in which you can hear the intention of the
composer, but the inability of the performer(s) to follow this.
This is not too bad with orchestral music actually, because the en-mass
performance takes away the personality, and arrives at something looking
more like a harmonious group-spirit.)

But still, Hermetic music resonates and revives something like a seed which
lies hidden in the deepest depths of most of us, and bares it up to a
incredibly gentle and subtle bloom.

douwe

darus@xs4all.nl

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:37:14 +0000
Subject: 1212 Gold/bacteria

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 13:49:23 -0600 (MDT)
From: Tom Hennessy

> The plant would not have produced the gold! The gold around the roots

Granted. But could plants take up the gold? As I had mentioned in a post
previously how they had found that plants *do* contain gold and that the
theory was bees when collecting pollen garner this gold and it is possible
by analyzing the honey that you *may* be able to tell whether there is
gold in the neighbourhood?
As to the gold/bacteria connection. Could you maybe raise bees and then
use the bacteria.. using the honey as a substrate? Therefore the bacteria
extracting the gold from the honey? It is just that the *bee* and honey
seem to be prominent in some of the Alchemy/esoteric.. ie: Templars?
Once you *have* isolated the bacteria.. the possibilities could be
'endless'? Plants, trees, blood...? used as substrate?
It is just a matter of being able to isolate the specific bacteria from a
nugget? *if* it exists?

Who loves ya.
Tom http://www.nucleus.com/watchman

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:38:57 +0000
Subject: 1213 Marriage

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 16:25:06 -0000
From: photopro

>From: Dan Hill

>What is the formula? Are you saying philisophicaly that the mystical
>marriage of CR involves the self and the higher self in union?

Mystical marriage is the self and sub/ the two columns at the poles/salt
and sulphur marrying so that they are reconciled on the center column of
Mercury/reconciliation the place from which vertical ascension ( or
descent) can take place. This represents the BEcoming of the ONe TRue
Self of All.
Wisa

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:40:29 +0000
To: alchemypost@colloquium.co.uk
Subject: 1214 absoluteness/Re: homunculus

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 16:41:22 -0000
From: photopro

>do you (we) think that any portion of our (human) being is
>ultimately, absolutely and actually real and permanent ? on any plane of
>being ?"

May I interject a thought?
Each and every person has the potential to transmute to a state of being
that is divine, immutable and eternal. To do that is a process which has
steps and takes time but is not a progression that is set as "the same
for everyone." The steps of Alchemical processes such as
sublimation/disolution etc represent this Process. Through these steps we
must change our Identity so that we represent Mankind, having
dropped/recollected/ clarified what is commonly called our personality to
a state of balance(middle column) which can be called "Persona" or Higher
Self Consciousness. All this Process is Man fulfilling his/her Purpose on
Earth. REconciliation (middle column), reunion (marriage) can take a
trans-man to a divine state that can be seen to be Eternal. We must do it
as Mankind for the One True Self is the One True Self of All.
Of course, this is an oversimplification but is the way that I am
striving to answer the question Logodox posted to Dowe.

Wisa

"All there is, is Love."
"Truth is the order of the Universe"
Photopro@mint.net
Wisa

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:08:11 +0000
Subject: 1215 Christians and mysticism

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:41:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: John D. O'Brien

> other gods (I believe. Please correct me if I am wrong). This either makes
> them non-Christian, or enhances their faith to such a degree that they have
> become, in fact, more Christian than your average Church goer or Priest.

We Mormons consider ourselves Christian although some other Christian
denominations don't want to accept that. We also acknowledge "other gods"
although there is no worship of "other gods", even Jesus.

> The Bible, according to Hebraic tradition, begins BRAShITH ALHIM. Now most

That should be "BRAShIT BRA ELHIM" (Or ELHIM); ELOH is singular "God", the
IM makes it plural.

John D. O'Brien obriens@sound.net

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:09:46 +0000
Subject: 1216 Alchemy Lab-Work question

From: DARREN M SWANICK
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 20:25:04, -0500

Dear Friends,
reading through Mr. Cullen's letter reminded me of both the
benefits and risks of communicating through this new medium of
computers. Finally there is a time when we can openly and freely
communicate without the use of cyphers or secret symbolism, but at
what potential price? For I've come to realize that although the toys of
humanity may vary from century to century their collective consciousness has
seemed to
remain woefully stagnate.
Before I write somthing I may regret let me make a staement to
the many seekers and end this letter. Be wary of being lured into
the false security of the 'openess' of this age, for there have been
other times in the past where society was open to new ideas, but then
the fear of humanity took hold and many seekers were hunted and put
to death for their beliefs, although many of us hope that this is the
age of the great revelation, we must be wary that humanity can revert
back to their darker past.
DMS

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:11:18 +0000
Subject: 1217 Christians and mysticism

From: John Chas Webb
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 18:10:49 -1000

| >Some of us who think of ourselves as alchemists also think of ourselves
| >as Christian!
|
| In point of fact, I'd have to say that almost all of western mysticism is
| inseperable from Christian patterns or thoughts. I myself do not worship
| God nor Christ, however, the thought modes and patterns of initiation still
| center around Christian ideas.
| ayindaath

My response is intended to share with you some "esoteric" information
which, hopefully, addresses some issues raised in your post and how these
issues relate to alchemy and religion generally. It is not necessary that
you agree with what I am about to share, only that you consider it with an
open mind.
Please consider this: There is no "BEGINNING" until you acknowledge
"God". Otherwise life is just a road to death. SO " In the beginning
there is God". The first name for God in the Old Testament is "Elohim".
Elohim is a plural noun strongly suggesting that GOD (the ultimate
incomprehensible) contains and expresses all of the pairs of opposites
including the masculine and the feminine. In esoteric circles, if you
cannot detect the presence of God it is because YOU have gotten in the way.
"Getting in the way" is the "sin" (error) of "Pride" and pride is where we
place our selves in higher esteem than we do God. If you want to know if
you have done this just monitor your thoughts for one day.
The word "religion" means to "bind back". Religion is a method to reunite
a person with creative power (God). The main difference between religions
and Alchemy and other esoteric endeavours is that religions give God a
personality, they assign human traits to God so that the adherents of the
religion can relate. In Alchemy, the divine is considered gold or golden.
Gold is used as the symbol because gold is precious, easy to work with,
enhances the value of objects that it is applied to and is a substance that
can make one's dreams come true. Gold also can be toxic if used in the
wrong ways! One can see that God and Gold have very similiar
characteristics. The principle tool of religion is worship, the principle
tool of alchemy is a scientific approach to the divine which uses metaphor
and symbol (not unlike religion). Much of the alchemical writings are
seasoned with seeming "insane" religious babbling which have been placed
right in the middle of seeming obtuse text. These "religious statements"
were used to avoid persecution by overzealous Christians who demanded you
swear devotion to Christ.
Here is the tie in. The "Christ", in christian esotericism, is the
purified person. The one who has surrendered to divine guidance. In
Alchemy, gold is the symbol of the purified person who has become so
"clear" that the light of the soul shines through him or her. The weight
of the "Cross" and the weight of "lead" are both symbols of the "unrefined"
aspects of our lower nature which, through dilligence, patience and
goodwill is gradually restored to the radiance of its original condition.
The literal meanings of religious and alchemical texts are only additional
help to decode the symbols and metaphors.
Without "God" there is no beginning. The big puzzle is figuring out who
God is!

John Chas Webb
johnboy@aloha.net

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:13:06 +0000
Subject: 1218 Lab Equipment

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:23:07 -0400
From: Russ House

Hi Dan,

>I am in the proccess of building a new lab. Is the use of slate tables a
>neccessity, or can some other form of material work? Also, does anyone know
>of a source for fume hood enclosures?

I do not have any slate tables (except for billiards), although it would be
nice, of course.
My tables are generally formica covered, but I have a real mix of tables,
and desks. I use heat resistant materials on the tops when heat is an
issue. There are heat resistant glassplates available. Other times I have
worked over temporary surfaces of ceramic tiles, or on concrete slabs. In
fact, the lab tables in some of Albertus' labs were ceramic tile with grout,
others were the black chemical-resistant material. I think that none
wereslate actually. When working with horrible corrosives, I am just extra
careful or work overPyrex dishes or glass plates to catch spills. When
necessary, I move out of doors.

>Also, what kind of drainage and sinks should one use? I wouldn't want to
>just flush chemicals into the sewer system.

I use plastic drainage pipe in a plastic double sink. There are some
concentrated corrosivesthat might eat through it if heated. I remember a
friend telling me about dumping somematerials through a sink and having it
eat through his... Dilute with lots of cold water as you are draining....

>I was thinking of using a recycling pipe for my distilation cooling. What
>volume of water would be adequate for a TWO foot distilation tube or a ONE
>foot soxeletic extractor?

I have used recycling pumps at times. I cannot remember the gallons per
hour. My guessis 150-200. It is sufficient to run 3-4 such condensers as
you mention, when pumping up 5-6 feet, through the condensers, and letting
gravity return the water to the source container.
In this case, I recommend a huge water source, such as a 55 gallon drum,
since any 5-10 galloncontainer will have the water temperature increase
progressively over time.
If you have access to inexpensive ice, then you can float ice bags in a
10-20 gallon container and change them from time to time. I just use
running water, and try not to be wasteful. If you use water in drums or
containers, consider their weight (considerable) or the problems they can
cause with a leak (considerable).

Russ House

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:14:52 +0000
Subject: 1219 Plant mutations/communication

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:20:32 -0700
From: joshua geller

> Please enlighten me as to what you think the advantages of using mind
> altering drugs would be to the esoteric. The way I see it is that the
> drug is causing a temporary alteration of one of the basic elements which
> allows a temporary vision or feeling.

and with proper training this can be very useful.

>I feel this is totally unnecessary
> and can be achieved through diligent practice with a permanent effect.
> You also chance the psychological or physical addiction to the substance.
> Speaking from experience, find another solution!

speak for yourself....

josh

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:16:35 +0000
Subject: 1220 Plant mutations/communication

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:18:26 -0700
From: joshua geller

> From: MR DARREN M SWANICK

> In reponse to AW's thought I must agree with the idea that mind
> altering drugs do not help but hinder the seeker on the path, save
> one possibility. I have often thought that if invited to attend a
> native "as in native american" circle, and if presented with the
> opportunity to participate in a ritual I might consider using one of
> their natural herbs 'to fully attain the experience at hand" the key
> words being Natural and ritual. The 'high' attainable by man made
> narcotics taken freely with no intention is pale and only an illusion
> when compared to the experience of being intimate with the hidden
> mysteries of the universe.

there are drugs and drugs. some are fairly benevolent and can be taken
pretty casually. some are fairly dangerous and if taken casually may
damage you. but it is often the case that risks taken will bring large
rewards.

I fail to see what the presence of authentic natives has to do with
anything one way or the other.

I find the tendency towards moralizing here disturbing. 'make no
difference between one thing and any other thing'.

I find watching television to be more dangerous than the judicious use
of drugs.

josh

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:18:21 +0000
Subject: 1221 Stibnite/oil of metals

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:34:51 -0400
From: Russ House

>I have not heard of the oil of gold before. The references in recent
>posts have little information about what it is and what it's
>properties are. Why is it called the oil of gold? Is it related to
>the white powder of gold? Does the oil of gold dry to the white
>powder? It it like an oil in water or in acid? What color is it?
>
>Barry Carter

The ' oil of gold' is a blood-red substance that is soluble in ether,
acetone, alcohol and similar solvents. It is not soluble in water.
In this way it behaves like an oil. When concentrated, it is blood
red, and even 1 drop in 100 drops of alcohol gives a strong color
(similar in strength of color to dark whiskeys like bourbon).

It has no relationship that I can imagine to the 'white gold' other than the
obvious one of coming from gold. It can be extracted from chloride salts of
gold using certain volatile solvents of a metallic origin. In the case of its
coming from a chloride salt, it is *MOST* difficult to remove the acidic traces
that come from the excess acids in the formation of the salt, and to remove
all metallic traces. When purified, it should be non acidic (neutral to pH)
and not contain metallic gold.

Regards,

Russ House
P.O.N.
====================================
Courses in Alchemy * Qabala * Esoteric Studies
The Philosophers of Nature
http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/ email: alchemy@mcs.com
====================================

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:20:11 +0000
Subject: 1222 Gold/bacteria

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 00:34:32 -0400
From: John F. Williams

>The plant would not have produced the gold! The gold around...

Modern prosprcting techniques include the gathering of known "gold
plants" such as the "bottle plant" found in throughout most of the
Western U.S.. These plants are ashed at 650 to 800 C and the ash
dissolved in aqua regia and aspirated in graphite furnace AA or ICP.
This method is particularly advantageous for sampling large placer
deposits as many samples can quickly be gathered and taken back to the
lab for analysis. This is not alchemy but bio-chemistry and extractive
metallurgy. The Gold is in solution in minute quantities and the plant
perfects ion exchange. The "Sourdoughs" of the 1860's would even burn
the plants and pan the gold out. Of course it could only be seen with a
magnifying glass, but it did tell them where a pay streek was!!

What is very interesting is a "eureka" that I stumbled upon that I will
share with you. The UK issued a patent on Nov 3 1992 to David Radlus
Hudson of Concord Research Corporation UK Patent GB #2219995 B.
Obtain it! The Title is "Non-metallic,monoatomic forms of transition
elements". It details very completely an entirely "new" form of
transition elements which can not be detected by normal analytical
methods, yet, they exhist in copious quantities everywhere in nature and
can be converted to "normal form" of transitional metals at low energy
levels. ("It is every where and in every thing") These "ORME"
(Orbitally Rearranged Monoatomic Elemental forms) are a White Powder
(Imagine That) which exhibit very interesting characteristics. As an
example the brains of swine have been found to contain "ORME" of Iridium
and Rhodium as high as 5% by weight. Read This Patent I Believe It Will
Open Your Eyes. (For those who have eyes, let them see)

As a closing note "American Society for Applied Technology" a non profit
scientific foundation engaged in the advancement of extractive
metallurgy of the precious metals would love to hear from any and all of
you. Their address is P.O. Box 1705, 114 1/2 Bullard, Silver City, N.M.
88062 Good info on simple methods. Walter Lashley is their Director.

May the light of the Supreme Architect of the Universe vivify your
being.

John Freeman Williams
catalytics@techcom.net

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:06:54 +0000
Subject: 1223 absoluteness/Re: homunculus

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 05:15:14 -0500
From: Logodox

>From: photopro
>May I interject a thought?
> Each and every person has the potential to transmute to a state of being
>that is divine, immutable and eternal...

Thanx for this enlightened statement, it concurs with much Buddhism, and
other mystical thought, including "Peaceful Warror" series.

Perhaps it still begs the Question previously asked:

If we become the oversoul or Human Archtype (MacroProSporus), all that we
think is us now would dwindle into temporal status. Near the summit of many
authentic teachings, including Rosicrucianism, it is basically taught that
we really don't possess and absolutely individual soul with permanent
"identity". This is a difficult one for many folks to accept because the
survival instincts and
other factors create the strong desire for survival of what we think we are.

If One became superconscious as mentioned above, then would all the billions
who were not in same state at same time simply be "unconscious" cells ?

Best,

Logodox@Sound.Net

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:08:30 +0000
Subject: 1224 Gold/bacteria

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:08:03 +0100 (BST)
From: D.R.Williams

It is inevitable that some of the gold around the roots would be taken up
with the soil nutrients into the plant, although whether this would be
secreted out with the nectar is questionable! However if this was the case
then we are faced with the likelihood of the bees using nectar that was
contaminated with metal salts. The best person to ask about this is an
apiarist.

As for using gold contaminated honey to discover whether there was gold in
the vicinity, you should bear in mind that; a: Bees collect nectar over a
wide area. b: As I stated in the last posting, the gold in the ground
surrounding the plant is likely to be of only a microscopic quantity.
Remember that even in gold mined commercially, for every ton of ore
extracted you normally, even in rich veins, only get an ounce or so.

Being a newcomer to Alchemy, I can only hazard a guess that the bee/honey
connection relates to the allegory of the bee collecting the substance of
the Sun (pollen=gold!) from the plant which is rooted to the Earth.

David R. Williams
Dpt. Welsh History
UCNW
BANGOR
Arfon
Wales
hiu166@bangor.ac.uk

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:22:02 +0000
Subject: 1225 Alchemy Lab-Work question

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:53:21 -0400
From: Jfruther

> Before I write somthing I may regret let me make a staement to
>the many seekers and end this letter. Be wary of being lured into
>the false security of the 'openess' of this age, for there have been
>other times in the past where society was open to new ideas, but then
>the fear of humanity took hold and many seekers were hunted and put
>to death for their beliefs, although many of us hope that this is the
>age of the great revelation, we must be wary that humanity can revert
>back to their darker past.
> DMS

But if there have not been all the countless ones, who lost their lifes for
humanitys sace, we would not have gone this far. So everyone has to decide
wether seeking shelter under his bed and being a part of the silent mass of
lambs or beeing a part of the "one movement", who freely opens his mouth and
brain to lead humanity to a future in which we will overcome fear and
ignorance.
Surely a hard and long way, but as we all know, the way of alchemy, magic(k),
enlightment etc. is alo a long and hard way, but the most of us are going
this way.

So I think, every one who is suffering for humanitys sace, is not suffering,
he is proceeding.

J. F. Ruther (V.I.T.R.I.O.L.)

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:23:37 +0000
Subject: 1226 absoluteness/Re: homunculus

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:50:34 +0000
From: A'yin Da'ath

>>do you (we) think that any portion of our (human) being is
>>ultimately, absolutely and actually real and permanent ? on any plane of
>>being ?"

Yes, in fact. Energy cannot be either created nor destroyed, and all matter
consists of energy. As for conciousness... well, there we enter the realm of
quantum physics etc., which can go elsewhere.

Not to mention 5th dimensional reality.

X
ayindaath@worldnet.att.net

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:25:08 +0000
Subject: 1227 Christians and mysticism

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:50:29 +0000
From: A'yin Da'ath
Subject: Re: 1210 Christians and mysticism

>This is not entirely (or even remotely) the right list to answer this
>question, but I'll get into it as briefly as I can so that others do not have
>to deal with unnecessary traffic.

In fact I was just awaiting a chance to bring this up, since I can tie it in
to alchemy and make it a little more 'official,' so to speak.

>In the beginning, there were Gods. That much is true for any aspect of
>Christianity. YHVH was a mountain god, not all that powerful in the totallity
>of things. As his popularity grew, he became the embodiment of the most
>powerful god. Finally, he started a sort of religious war between the jews and
>everyone else and said, "They're all blasphemers and should die". Or something
>to that effect. Essentially, he claimed to be the One True god, and that all
>others were false. Now, this is interesting because he had to build up a
>following before this could happen. Almost an alchemical change from minor
>deity to one and only powerful being (hey, I had to try to tie alchemy in here
>somehow :).

However, let me try to posit a different theory - There are, in my belief,
many gods. I am a polytheist by nature. However, there is also the Supernal
Sublime, YHVH, who isn't exactly a god but, well, something more... like the
soul of the multiverses.

Anti-Christians are as quick to anger as their enemies, and don't realize
that in fact Christianity can compliment their own faiths just as Buddhism
and Hinduism and others can compliment a Christian's. In mysticism,
actually, YHVH stands for the four alchemical elements (by the way, are
salt, sulphur, mercury elements, or base elements, or what exactly would you
call them?), fire water air earth. Through permutations and study of YHVH
(the Holy Unspeakable Name etc.), one can learn a great deal. One example:
Jesus, in Hebrew, is pronounced Yeheshua. Spelt in Hebrew, it's YHShVH.
Notice, again, the YHVH with the Sh directly front and center. Now most
mystics take this to mean that there is a fifth element, Spirit, and that
the Sh (Shin, pronounced Sheen) is the Hebrew letter for it.

In actuality, the Bible holds, as well as the usual clap-trap (which I am
pretty sure was put in by later rabbis, much as the horrendous book of
Revelations was put in later as propaganda by John), a great many hidden
keys and clues to both mysticism, faith, and alchemy. It's a question of
removing prejudices against reading Christian literature, and sorting
through the propaganda, as any historian must do (including when reading
alchemical manuscripts, I might add).

X
ayindaath@worldnet.att.net

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:26:45 +0000
Subject: 1228 Christians and mysticism

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:10:07 +0000
From: A'yin Da'ath

>That should be "BRAShIT BRA ELHIM" (Or ELHIM); ELOH is singular "God",
>the IM makes it plural.

Yes. Also note the notariqon, BRA, which could be Ben, Ruach, Abba (Son,
Holy Spirit or Wind, Father).

BTW, ELHIM is spelt (in this bizarre anglicised hebrew) ALHIM, because
Hebrew has no E. Although yes, it is pronounced Elohim.

X
ayindaath@worldnet.att.net

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:28:18 +0000
Subject: 1229 Christians and mysticism

From: Matthew Gordon Phillips
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:19:01 -0700

A useful translation for ALHIM for me is "Male-Female Gods"; is the
multiplicity of ALHIM maybe a good place to look for the another puzzle,
"Let Us make him in our image"--who is "Us" when you classically see God
as One overbearing uptight male macho God, Mr. Monotheism himself? I
haven't the slightest. But if "God" is a Male-Female
(bisexual/hermaphrodite?) God, then a lot of "problems" are
"miraculously" cleared away. The "justification" for using this
translation is that the root ALVH is feminine. Is that right? Well, the
feminine crops up somewhere along the line in the formation of this word
as I remember. Please correct me where I am wrong. Also I'd like to hear
a good reason not to see God as "Male-Female". I haven't heard any good
reasons so far and I doubt I ever will.

zingo, space age superhero

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:29:50 +0000
Subject: 1230 Tom H. Gold

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 16:27:35 -0000
From: photopro

" It is just that the *bee* and honey
seem to be prominent in some of the Alchemy/esoteric.. ie: Templars?"

Well, "Where the Bee sucks", in Shakespeare's Tempest, means Wisdom. And
that author was in the know. So could it have Alchemical meaning. Is
Wisdom the Gold?

Wisa

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 12:23:39 +0000
Subject: 1231 Absoluteness/ Homunculus again

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 22:29:45 -0000
From: photopro

>" Near the summit of many authentic teachings, including Rosicrucianism, it
is >basically taught that we really don't possess and absolutely individual
soul with >permanent "identity". This is a difficult one for many folks to
accept because the
>survival instincts andother factors create the strong desire for survival
of what we >think we are.
> Logodox"

Wisa adds to this statement by drawing an analogy: The Purpose of The
Great Work is to transcend the personality which is the small "i am". In
the beginning, say that we each seem to have a Guardian Angel. We grow
and transmute and dissolute the personality into a Universal I Am. As we
rise on the planes into a balance/clarity/receptivity that allows
Superconsciousness to be the Driver of Our Chariot (Vehicle), we will
eventually be not just a man but Mankind and the True Self of All so
perceived previously as individuals (seperateness) is The ONE True Self
of All (wholeness).
:

And:
>"If One became superconscious as mentioned above, then would all the
>billions who were not in same state at same time simply be "unconscious"
cells ?
>Logodox"

Wisa asks:
Can I use this for a shocking possibility of an example? I believe this
is so, but hard to define and very complicated in its workings. One
person or thing affects another and so on infinitely. Yet, everything has
its place and purpose. It is more than the pieces of a picture puzzle.
That's why there is this Hermetic saying something like this... that the
aggregate pieces of the puzzle are larger than the whole.Dynamic
equilibration must be the reference.

What if there are those enlightened individuals who have awakened and
found the Path and these individuals become "REAL" and are in "process of
change" and learning and transmuting...
And what if the rest of humanity are lessons* for these Elect?
And what if some "REAL FOLK" are your lessons too as you are theirs?
And what if you are All these persons but know only the One you are now
conscious of. One which is awakened and has life lessons to learn, a
life and world to recall and a Path of the Great Work to tread upon?

Might that help to explain why the Light and Dark are one, and who are
the Superconscious cells and which are the millions of common ones while
yet very important still seemingly dispensable? Even then it is a hard
task understanding. As a teacher once explained to me. We have to "get
off this plane" to go above these situations/questions. And as Jesus once
said referring to the many type of situations of so-called good and evil
spoken about below in the quote : "The poor will always be with us". For
we are dealing with the multifaceted Nature of God and Man-
Man and God. As long as we are still on the Earth Plane these questions
will need to be asked.

Wisa

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 12:25:18 +0000
Subject: 1232 Stibnite/oil of metals

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:55:47 -0400
From: alchemy@mcs.com

In a previous response I mentioned that oil of gold can be extracted from
chloride salts of gold. It is also possible to extract a tincture directly
from 24K gold leaf which presumably would yield an oil of gold on
concentration. In my experiments while the solvent did act on the gold
leaf, there was not enough material to work with -- the idea of the
experiment was to test the strength and activity of the solvent.
Presumably, then, the solvent would work on native gold and elemental gold.

Russ
alchemy@mcs.com

====================================
Courses in Alchemy * Qabala * Esoteric Studies
The Philosophers of Nature
http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/ email: alchemy@mcs.com
====================================

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 12:26:57 +0000
Subject: 1233 absoluteness/Re: homunculus

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 01:25:44 -0400
From: Rawn Clark

In a message dated 96-06-28 Logodox wrote:
>If One became superconscious as mentioned above,
>then would all the billions who were not in same state
>at same time simply be "unconscious" cells ?

True attainment of a Unitary awareness (which is how I
would translate the intent of your word "superconscious"
in the above context) implies the encompassing of poles
such as conscious and unconscious. In such a state,
one is conscious within and through each and every cell
of the Whole. Even unconsciousness becomes an active
state of consciousness when considered from a Unitary
perspective. Do you understand my meaning? Essentially
the Unitary consciousness is aware of itself in each of its
cells regardless of those cell's individual self-awareness.
This is a hard concept to grasp, let alone describe, with
strict clarity.

A Unitary consciousness is not exclusive of your, or my,
individual awareness (ego), but rather, *inclusive* of them
both...and more, inclusive of It All. There is no loss of an
individual experience of self for a Unitary awareness. On
the contrary, as one approaches Unitary consciousness,
there is an expansion of self as more and more of what
was previously considered "not-self" is included in one's
self-experience. A Unitary awareness must, by definition,
pervade absolutely all things consciously, and all things
therefore, become avenues of the Unitary's self expression.

In the same sense that you are aware of your left foot as a
viable part of your physical self, a Unitary awareness is
conscious of, and employs, the countless individualities,
the countless things and non-things that populate the uni-
verse, as extensions of itself. The Whole becomes self, the
All becomes the expression of the self's will.

For a physically incarnate human being to attain a Unitary
consciousness is a truly Blessed event! It represents the
self-conscious connecting of the entire spectrum of self.
While it is a rare occurance from the perspective of any one
moment in time, the numbers are impressive over the whole
of human history.

There are many levels of self-awareness encountered as we
rise toward the Unitary. At each level, our experience and
definition of the Unitary awareness grows, and we are often
Blessed with brief glimpse-like experiences of it along the way.
Imagine a single brief glimpse's feeling of Oneness, stretched
out as a continuous state of functional awareness (not just a
stupifying bliss, but a consciously active state), and you
approach the meaning of Unitary awareness as an absolute
state. The rise of consciousness through successive levels is,
in many ways, an intentional process of repeatedly familiarizing
one's self with this Oneness, and consciously striving to link it
to one's daily experience. In this way, it gradually becomes a
more accessible, functional and steady, state of awareness.

Best to you!
:) Rawn Clark
28 Jun 96

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 18:21:49 +0000
Subject: 1234 Plant mutations/communication

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 11:27:41 +0200 (MET DST)
From: douwe

The usage of drugs causes damage to the lesser dense bodies faster than to
the physical body, the physical body deteriorates because of a going weird
of the ethers.
The hypofysis eventually burns away by the use of hallucinogens, the cause
to most will be loss of mental balance, wandering uncontrollable mind,
disability to think, etc. the Sternum or Thymus (even more important...) is
burned away by barbiturates, it causes inability to feel the Radiation that
supposed to penetrate the heart, heavy use causes loss of balance of
feeling, depression, uncontrollable wandering feelings that cling them self
to anything to compensate the loss of balance.

Drugs and drugs aren't alike, smoking causes a prolonged overcast of the
ethers, so that they cannot change naturally in the process of growing
spiritually, that it causes uncontrollable sexual urges... once stopped
one can recuperate reasonably fast.
Mind altering drugs are the dangerous ones, because they may damage your
cognition, balance, and ability to decide permanently after quit a short
term of use.
Speed and Coke and the like materialize your ethers so much that there may
hardly be a chance to have a spiritual life at all.

Someone posted in the beginning of this drugs talk something about healthy
life with natural foods and such, he/she got shunned completely, but I do
agree with him/her to the fullest extend.
Taking care of your physical body is taking care of your spiritual bodies,
being subtle with it, makes you subtle on the front of the ethers and such.
Being thankful for food is the same thing, therefore buying the best foods
makes you even more grateful for it.

Eating meat (I am not trying to convert people), causes the body to take on
the character of the animal... hence birds cause stupidity... etc...
Still Jesus said, not that goes into your mouth is important, but that which
comes out of your mouth, (that is even more altering)...

The use of drugs is not useful at all when you are busy with the process, it
never will give true insights (I have experimented with them myself once),
and it cannot, and will not be a pathway to true insight... it is the
material and crooked equivalent of the Universal wisdom, just to keep people
happy with thinking that they gain something.
It puts you on the wrong track, makes you work too much with the ethers your
self... while in the True path it is not My will, but Thy Will that alters
me towards Truth...
The statement 'Do what thou wilt', comes from usage of drugs and from
following the path that comes after it... magically one may achieve minor
things, but not without the use of elementary-spirits (they differ from
elementals).

Further, looking at a smoking compartment of a train always shocks me
because of dead people still living in the same habit gathering there.

I could go on for ages, but I think that there has been enough talk about it
already, and it doesn't have anything to do with alchemy.

douwe.
darus@xs4all.nl

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 18:23:27 +0000
Subject: 1235 Is alchemy unique?

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:58:13 -0400
From: Jeffrey

I am fairly new to the forum but am struck by how often people seem to make
alchemy just another new age philosophy or eastern religion, or even christian
religion. Alchemy seems to me to be unique in its process and its goals. Two
of these goals seem to be the creation of an immortal subtle body so that the
personality is not lost or transcended or merged with a great totality, but
becomes divine and immortal in its own right. The personality is not lost it
is turned to gold, which means becomes divine. Secondly, it seems to be
about incarnating the spirit of God in matter. Some of you talk about
transcending matter, but alchemy, it seems to me, divinizes matter by
bringing God into it. The Filius Philosophorum is the personality made God,
and God made personal, the union of matter and spririt, not the transcendence
of matter. These are a few of the ides that make alchemy unique I think and
so important to the modern world.

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 18:25:07 +0000
Subject: 1236 Lab Equipment

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 11:28:04 -0400
From: Raymond P. Cullen

Dan wrote:
I was thinking of using a recycling pipe ...

Russ wrote:
... I have used recycling pumps at times. ...

I would just like to add that you will have to treat the water like a
swimming pool if you keep it around very long. PH should be 10 to keep
iron from rusting, anti-bacterial, anti-algae...

Ray

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 18:26:51 +0000
Subject: 1237 absoluteness/Re: homunculus

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:44:01 +0000
From: A'yin Da'ath

>From: Logodox

>If we become the oversoul or Human Archtype (MacroProSporus), all that we
>think is us now would dwindle into temporal status. Near the summit of many
>authentic teachings, including Rosicrucianism, it is basically taught that
>we really don't possess and absolutely individual soul with permanent
>"identity". This is a difficult one for many folks to accept because the
>survival instincts and
>other factors create the strong desire for survival of what we think we are.

However, if we become super-concious, i.e., achieve transcendance in order
for travel through all planes of existance and all dimensions of 'reality'
(whatever that's supposed to be), we would still retain an identity as a
part of the infinite- we still maintain stature as God.

If we are all parts of 'God' (The infinite, the universe, etc... fill in
supreme being as needed), created as a mirror image of itself in order to
see itself in the infinite permutations, then we still, no matter what, are
God, and therefore retain the same identity thereof.

In other words, transcendance is the removal of one identity and it's
replacement with another.

X
ayindaath@worldnet.att.net

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 18:28:35 +0000
Subject: 1238 Plant mutations/communication

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:44:05 +0000
From: A'yin Da'ath

> > In reponse to AW's thought I must agree with the idea that mind
> > altering drugs do not help but hinder the seeker on the path, save
> > one possibility. I have often thought that if invited to attend a
> > native "as in native american" circle, and if presented with the
> > opportunity to participate in a ritual I might consider using one of
> > their natural herbs 'to fully attain the experience at hand" the key
> > words being Natural and ritual. The 'high' attainable by man made
> > narcotics taken freely with no intention is pale and only an illusion
> > when compared to the experience of being intimate with the hidden
> > mysteries of the universe.

I disagree. All narcotics are based, at least partially, upon those
'natural' herbs (I assume here that you are making reference to psyclobin,
peyote, datura, etc. - see any book by Carlos Castaneda). Mescaline, for
example, is merely the active principle in peyote extracted and condensed in
chemical form (provided it's really mescaline, and not a dog tranquilizer -
this is one of the things that cannot be certain on a black market).

I agree, however, with the word 'ritual.' I think that, at least in order to
obtain full effect, a drug should be administered in a ritualistic
enviroment, in concordance with Leary's 'Set, Setting, Dosage.' I agree that
drugs should be taken only with a purpose in mind, not just to 'get high,
strung out, burned out, etc.'

As to why you should trust Native Americans over, say, Anglican Americans,
Indians, Chinese, Japanese, or any other cultural/moral/ethical/racial
system is beyond me. Each has their own knowledge of drugs, each has their
own approach, and each is equally as good to Mr. Generic. However, if your
comfort would be with Native Americans solely, then you should go with that.
Comfort, above all, is important when taking drugs. The last thing you need
is to go to a Nine Inch Nails concert with no one you know in order to take
acid. Torture would be a more mild shock to the system compared to that.

X
ayindaath@worldnet.att.net

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 18:30:13 +0000
Subject: 1239 Plant mutations - drugs

I think the thread on recreational drugs is perhaps taking us a bit far from
our subject of alchemy. There is perhaps a generational aspect to people's
views on recreational drugs. Older people having tried these things out or
known friends who have used drugs, are usually not very impressed by the
romanticised view that drugs can be used to obtain spiritual perception. The
recreational use of drugs has been popularised since the 1960's but I doubt
whether any of us can honestly say these have led to an increase in
spirituality among our contemporaries.
I found it strange that 'Carlos Castaneda' being quoted as an authority on
the use of natural drugs. Surely everyone knows that the books written under
this name are works of fiction, romantic novels about shamanism, and not a
clear account of native north american indian ritual practices. A good read
perhaps, but not a practice that anyone can follow.

Let us gradually bring this thread to a close, unless anyone can provide any
evidence for the use of mind-expanding drugs in alchemy. There is little
point in people just exchanging their views either for or against drugs, and
the alchemy forum is really not the place for this. I cannot immediately
think of any text which discusses the use of psychotropic drugs, but would
be interested in any references.

Adam McLean

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:11:38 +0000
Subject: 1240 Gold/bacteria

From: Barry Carter
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 09:32:41 +0000

Dear David,

> It is inevitable that some of the gold around the roots would be taken up
> with the soil nutrients into the plant, although whether this would be
> secreted out with the nectar is questionable! However if this was the case
> then we are faced with the likelihood of the bees using nectar that was
> contaminated with metal salts. The best person to ask about this is an
> apiarist.

I know gold miners who use plants in prospecting. They literally
pick and assay the plants.

> As for using gold contaminated honey to discover whether there was gold in
> the vicinity, you should bear in mind that; a: Bees collect nectar over a
> wide area. b: As I stated in the last posting, the gold in the ground
> surrounding the plant is likely to be of only a microscopic quantity.
> Remember that even in gold mined commercially, for every ton of ore
> extracted you normally, even in rich veins, only get an ounce or so.

Multiply this by 4000 if you count monoatomic gold. It may not
actually be that high, but it is up there somewhere. Monoatomic
gold is more likely to be taken up by plants since it is carried in
water and is important to life function.

With Kindest Regards,

Barry Carter

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:13:26 +0000
Subject: 1241 Lab Equipment

From: Barry Carter
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 09:25:45 +0000

Dear Dan,

> I am in the proccess of building a new lab. Is the use of slate tables a
> neccessity, or can some other form of material work? Also, does anyone know
> of a source for fume hood enclosures?

I have a friend who frequents university auctions. He has recently
picked up several fume hood enclosures. An old clothes drier will
work in a pinch as well. Try not to use stainless steel tables as
any form of magnetism can disrupt alchemical processes.

> Also, what kind of drainage and sinks should one use? I wouldn't want to
> just flush chemicals into the sewer system.

Excellent point. You can catch and store waste and neutralize it
later. Ozone makes an excellent neutralizing agent if you can get a
generator which produces high percentage ozone. PVC plumbing is
generally most stable in chemical situations. Teflon is expensive
but works very well. Chemical pumps are generally made of Teflon or
something similar. Different materials are suitable for different
chemicals.

With Kindest Regards,

Barry Carter

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:15:08 +0000
Subject: 1242 Tom H. Gold

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 01:43:27 +0200 (MET DST)
From: douwe

>From: photopro
>" It is just that the *bee* and honey
>seem to be prominent in some of the Alchemy/esoteric.. ie: Templars?"
>Well, "Where the Bee sucks", in Shakespeare's Tempest, means Wisdom. And
>that author was in the know. So could it have Alchemical meaning. Is
>Wisdom the Gold?

The bee collects nectar, which as Paracelsus mentions aptly as it collects
the radiation of the sun...
Symbolically the sun represents Christ, the bees, the workers, collect its
radiation and concentrate it, as can be done in the body as in the real
world as concentrating the radiation together in a temple or some other
sacret place.

In some other way it is not the sun itself which may be known, but the
radiation of the sun which may be known.

But deepest of all is the idea of the radiation of the sun as the renewal of
the Spirit, the collecting by the bees the renewal of the Soul, and the
bringing of the honey to the hive(as body), or eating of the honey from the
hive (as this world) as the renewal of the Body.

Apart from this there is a lot 'invisible' going on which will be seen if
you observe the bee and the flower on the etherical plane.
The flower and the bee attract each other by some sort of act of love, and
it is as if you observe the happening of an embracing kiss, in which the bee
is completely absorbed... the flower or the Rose is the radiation of
divinity, the absorbtion is the giving up of yourself to this radiation to
the fullest extent, and in this way you will be part of True wisdom.
In the same way (act of loving attraction and embrace) the flower absorbs
the (golden colored) light of the sun, like this nature rejoices in a way
which should be a big example to us all.
(but ach... how long will it take before people want to realize that finding
the Truth has to do with giving up all that seems (feels) exiting to them,
instead of following the path of excitement (energy)... the absorbtion, is
the action of hermetism, becoming hermetically sealed off from this world so
that the other World can have its rejuvenating and renewing effect!)

The templars, the R.C. and others that followed from the same esoteric link
must have observed these same things, the bees where symbolic for the
workers, or better the people who brought/bring the Radiation of Glory over
to this world (the beehive), to teach, and to light other torches.

In spagyrics there has been a great usage of honey, which is not strange
because it contains the most potent part of all the flowers... (honey for an
laboratorial operation should always be the kind that has been treated cold,
and the ones that mention things about wild flowers, so that you will have a
great variety of essences in the honey, by which it makes it suitable as a
good universal medicine)

I do believe that the nectar does carry a great amount of radiation of the
sun, it is charged so to say, it seems to seep in in an etherical way, the
flower uses it thankfully and changes a part of it into nectar which it
gives (it is all receiving and giving the received here).
This radiation/light in the honey can only be preserved if it will be
treated very carefully on a very low heat, under a medium vacuum.

But whatever... as may be seen, the Sun, the Flower, the Bee, the Hive, are
Seven steps to liberation, of which the Three invisible ones hold the Keys
of transformation to the true state of liberation.

douwe.
darus@xs4all.nl
M
C R
V

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:17:07 +0000
Subject: 1243 Christians and mysticism

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 20:27:44 +0000
From: A'yin Da'ath

>From: Matthew Gordon Phillips
>A useful translation for ALHIM for me is "Male-Female Gods"; is the
>multiplicity of ALHIM maybe a good place to look for the another puzzle,
>"Let Us make him in our image"--who is "Us" when you classically see God
>as One overbearing uptight male macho God, Mr. Monotheism himself? I
>haven't the slightest. But if "God" is a Male-Female
>(bisexual/hermaphrodite?) God, then a lot of "problems" are
>"miraculously" cleared away.

As in Baphomet, the bisexual god of Templar fame? Mmm... possible. However
I'm more inclined to believe that the Ancient Jews were not discussing God,
as in the 'overbearing uptight male macho God, Mr. Monotheism himself.'
Rather, I am currently inclined to believe that possibly YHVH is the
Supernal, the Universe, the underlying 'thing,' that is above God-status.
All Gods exist (via 5th dimensional reasoning), so Jehovah, the mountain
freak, exists, but the QBLHists were attempting to seperate YHVH, the
Supernal, and ALHIM, the Gods. All the horrible things done by the God later
can fall under one heading- politics. Propaganda. The Bible is part mystic
revelation and part pro-Judaeo-Christian War posters.

The "justification" for using this
>translation is that the root ALVH is feminine. Is that right? Well, the
>feminine crops up somewhere along the line in the formation of this word
>as I remember. Please correct me where I am wrong. Also I'd like to hear
>a good reason not to see God as "Male-Female". I haven't heard any good
>reasons so far and I doubt I ever will.

To quote the easiest and perhaps most frequently asked question of modern
times, 'Why?'

Why should god be male/female, just as why should god not be?

Why should god be male, why should god be female, why should god be both,
why should god be neither?

Before we get onto those, however, I think we should answer: 'Why should God
be?'

X
ayindaath@worldnet.att.net

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:18:46 +0000
Subject: 1244 Is alchemy unique?

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 20:27:39 +0000
From: A'yin Da'ath

>From: Jeffrey
>I am fairly new to the forum but am struck by how often people seem to make
>alchemy just another new age philosophy or eastern religion, or even christian
>religion. Alchemy seems to me to be unique in its process and its goals. Two
>of these goals seem to be the creation of an immortal subtle body so that the
>personality is not lost or transcended or merged with a great totality, but
>becomes divine and immortal in its own right.

As is the system known as Magick. Asserting identity as a singular being as
well as being a part of the whole, that is (part of) Magick. The highest
level that I know of is Ipsissmus, which is described as '...[being] beyond
the comprehension of all lesser grades.' Whose to sy what that really means?

Remember, you have an identity, but you are also part of the universe, just
as your ego has it's own identity, but is just a part of your psyche.

>The personality is not lost it
>is turned to gold, which means becomes divine.

Who is to say that turning into a divinity is not part of a process whereby
you unite with the Supernal?

> Secondly, it seems to be
>about incarnating the spirit of God in matter. Some of you talk about
>transcending matter, but alchemy, it seems to me, divinizes matter by
>bringing God into it.

All matter IS God, or the Supernal, rather. It is already divine. Alchemy,
as a goal, seeks to purify that down to it's most base essence, which then
becomes something more than we currently comprehend.

>The Filius Philosophorum is the personality made God,
>and God made personal, the union of matter and spririt, not the transcendence
>of matter.

You confuse me- exactly what do you mean by this? Would not transcendance of
matter create divinity? Is God actually a real-life person, sitting on a bus
somewhere, as the song goes? Are the gods really in hiding and living among
us? I find this difficult in itself to believe, since a) I think they would
make their presence known by some act of kindness or injustice, and b) it
sounds too much like a made-for-TV-movie.

>These are a few of the ides that make alchemy unique I think and
>so important to the modern world.

Oh, I agree with this. However, alchemy alone seems quite silly, when, if
you compliment with QBLH, Magick, Psychology, Chemistry, Physics,
Philosophy, etc., it instead becomes vastly more interesting and informative.

X
ayindaath@worldnet.att.net

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:20:46 +0000
Subject: 1245 Is Alchemy unique?

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 96 21:41:49 -0000
From: photopro

> The Filius Philosophorum is the personality made God,
>and God made personal, the union of matter and spririt, not the transcendence
>of matter. These are a few of the ideas that make alchemy unique I think and
>so important to the modern world.

Seperating the gross from the subtle is transcending the gross. This is a
matter of wordage/definition not necesarily different ideas.
Wisa

"All there is, is Love."
"Truth is the order of the Universe"
Photopro@mint.net
Wisa

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:22:31 +0000
Subject: 1246 Plant mutations - drugs

From: Matthew Gordon Phillips
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 01:22:22 -0700

>Let us gradually bring this thread to a close, unless anyone can provide
>any evidence for the use of mind-expanding drugs in alchemy.

I have to admit that when I saw yet another post on this subject I let
out a sigh of exasperation since many of the posts are rather opinions
than interesting connections to alchemy or fact based studies. As for
evidence that mind expanding drugs are being used by alchemists one need
look no further than this forum. If alchemy has as broad a definition as
it seems according to the suggestions of many recent posts ie isn't
just restricted to physical athanoors, alembics, retorts, etc. then
anyone familiar with and actively working with the alchemical symbology
is an alchemist- and surely many of these alchemists will be using mind
expanding drugs. QED.

>There is little point in people just exchanging their views
>either for or against drugs, and
>the alchemy forum is really not the place for this.

I am in full agreement especially if the poster cannot manage to fit in
the direct corolation with alchemy.

> I cannot immediately
>think of any text which discusses the use of psychotropic drugs, but
>would be interested in any references.

The late Dr. Leary was certainly an alchemist of sorts and no one will
disagree with me if I assert that he both used mind expanding drugs not
to mention wrote on the subject. If you all disagree with my labeling
Leary as an alchemist then I'd like a clearer definition of alchemist
please and how that newer clearer definition conflicts with Leary's life
work.

>The recreational use of drugs has been popularised since the 1960's but I
>doubt whether any of us can honestly say these have led to an increase in
>spirituality among our contemporaries.

I will respectfully and honestly disagree here. I would especially
object to the idea that the recreational use of drugs was popularized in
the 1960's. Rather the truth is that this was popularized thousands of
years ago with the mead culture of early civilization, and other such
well-known phenomenon. Recreational drug use has been popular since the
beginning of time, practically. 1960's? Come on Adam, where you been?
Such a statement is about as informed/credible as somebody trying to
sell you the Don Juan stories as fact.

Many posts, IMHO have been very interesting and informative, while a few
have been simple assertions of preference which is a bit annoying. If we
can keep the thread connected to alchemy, we should all be satisfied.

The major formula of alchemy of taking a base thing and turning it to a
living special substance is echoed in the Christian eucharist, and
indeed all eucharists and sacraments. You turn the bread and wine (or
what have you) into the body and blood of Christ and then you consume
thereby effecting the special required and desired/willed transmutation.
Some Native Americans view peyote similarly ie as a sacrament taken to
effect a spiritual transformation (BTW this is legal for them so you can
all breathe easy, I am not here talking of tabu verboten subjects).

Any alchemical comments?

--
Yours in Thelema,
Matthew Gordon Phillips
zingo@sprynet.com

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:24:14 +0000
Subject: 1247 Alchemy in the Czech Republic

From: UDV
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 10:18:42 +-200

Historical alchemy in the Czech Republic
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Czech alchemy has had three great periods. The first was the age of Emperor
Charles IV, the second was the age of Emperor Rudolf II, and the third was
at the beginning of the twentieth century.

1.
In the first period was built groud of historical centre. The churches
and other buildings were stone books, which tell about interior change.
Emperor Karl IV was occupied with mysticism and interior alchemy. The town
of Prague was conceived as a picture of macrocosmos. Its architect was
Matyas from Arrass and Peter Parler - this name means "talking stone". In Prague
were applied astrological principle too.

2.
In Prague Castle there were alchemical laboratories in the tower Mihulka.
In the tower Mihulka today is situated fragment of Rudolf II's collection and a
reconstruction of alchemical laboratories. At Rudolf II's court was an
alchemic examinator, the Prague scientist Tadeas Hajek from Hajek. In Prague
were living such well-known alchemists as John Dee, Edward Kelley and Michael
Sendivoj. Also the French alchemist Denis Zachaire and Nicolas Barnard worked
here at other times. Paracelsus' pupil Oswald Crollius lived in Prague too and
wrote his book about gems. Michel Maier - alchemist and rosicrucian wrote
in Czech book 'Atalanta fugiens'. Next was Paracelsus' pupil and eclectic
Martin Ruland. Maier and Ruland were the Emperor's physicians. This group was
called the Prague alchemic academy. Its members were the alchemist Claudius
Syrrus, mathematician Bartolomeus Reisacher, Fridrich Holzschuler from
Norimberk, Bohumil Hanus, Ambroz Ziegler, Jakub Straus, Pavel Fabrius,
Rennus Cysatus, Vilem Rechberger and the others. Many mining officials were
interesting in alchemy, for example Sebald Schwertzer author of some
alchemical tractates,
which are placed now at National Muzeum in Prague.
A prime Czech alchemist was Simon Tadeas Budek the Emperor's searcher for
metal and gem. He abandoned handwriting for a secret script. This tractate
is in Vienna today. Simon Tadeas Budek got his noble title "from Lesin and
Falkenberk" from Emperor Rudolf II. In Prague also worked alchemists with
questionable reputations: Marco Bragadino, Jerolym Alexandro Scotta, Filip
Jakub Gustenholer, who got from Seton projection tinctures and made a
transmutation close by Emperor.
In Prague Tyn church is the grave of Tycho de Brahe well-known astronomer and
devoted alchemist.

Many Czech noblemen, especially from the houses Zajic from Hasemburg and Lev
from Rozmberk were interested in alchemy.
To a great measure, Prague was Jewish town and here lived important Jewish
scholars and kabbalists. In the old Prague lies the best well-preserved Jewish
cemetery in central Europe and plenty of historical synagogues. The most
important Prague Rabbi was Jehuda Low ben Bezalel called Maharal mi Prag -
Great master from Prague, who created the Golem legend. First of all he was
famous kabbalist and magician. Many people visit his grave in Prague.

The last alchemist of this period was Kristof Berger who died at 1793.

Very important also is the alchemical library in Mnichovo Hradiste.
This town is 80 kilometres north from Prague.

3.
The third and last period was connected with Martinism. It begins in the
year 1891 when Baron Leonhardi set up a Czech Martinist order.
In the year 1930 was set up society Universalea which had about a hundred
members. Researchers such as Pierre Lasenik, Franc Kabelak, Bohumil Hradecny
and Ferdinand Prantl studied spagyric /alchemical of plants/ and
mystic alchemy first of all, but Theophanus Abba studied physical transmutation.
He knew the transmutation of metals into silver and left some alchemical
silver.
Theophanus Abba died as the last great Czech alchemist in the year 1975.
From this period exist many interesting works, but some of these remain only
in fragments, because of the fascist occupation from 1939 to 1945, and the
communist occupation afterwards to 1989. Both dictatorships meant
intensive persecution of alchemists.

In the Czech Republic are more interesting places connected with alchemy,
the majority of these were described in a Czech book "Labyrintem tajemna"
from Martin Stejskal and "Novodoby cesky hermetismus" from Milan Nakonecny.

P.S. Excuse my English.

Martin from Czech

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:26:02 +0000
Subject: 1248 The Golden Elixir - Resources on Chinese alchemy

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 23:10:18 +0100
From: Fabrizio Pregadio

------------------------
I have posted this message because I thought it might be of interest to
members of the forum - Adam McLean
------------------------

The Golden Elixir - Resources on Chinese alchemy
http://vega.unive.it/~pregadio/jindan/index.html

"The Golden Elixir" introduces some facets of the history and doctrines of
Chinese alchemy. The site contains essays, Chinese texts, concordances,
pictures, and bibliographies. These materials may be of interest to those
studying Taoism, the history of Chinese science, and comparable traditions
in other cultures.

Regards,
Fabrizio Pregadio

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:27:37 +0000
Subject: 1249 Alchemical lab ware

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:38:57 -0700
From: droelofs@jersey.uoregon.edu (Dylan Roelofs)

------------------------
I have posted this message because I thought it might be of interest to
members of the forum - Adam McLean
------------------------

Greetings all.... my name is Dylan and I'm both an alchemist and a
glassblower (I'm trained in scientific apparatus.)
I can create and modify existing labware (as long as it fits in my current
oven : 17 in wide 14.5 in deep and 12 in tall)
I cannot (yet, though soon ) make large flasks as that requires a furnace
and blowpipe... any inquires may be sent to :

Dylan Roelofs
droelofs@jersey.uoregon.edu

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 16:14:02 +0000
Subject: 1250 Plant Mutations

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 09:02:09 -0400
From: Clinton R. Armitage

In my original formula post on Plant Mutations the need to establish contact
with the plant, by the alchemist, was given as step one. Further, it was
stated that this step may require a number of attempts and that it is done
through an act of love.

This formula was posted with the intent of giving you a vehicle of practical
application in order to advance your own enlightenment process. It remains a
valid and workable method of creating new varieties of plants should you
successfully use it.

The method of establishing communication with the plant- which required an
altered state of consciousness- again, was love, not drugs.

I must tell you that, in my own experience, and in love, I came in contact
with a number of young people who marveled at what they were experiencing as
they communed with nature while on drugs. Sadly, perhaps, many of them have
had their lives cut short. My natal astrology clearly indicated that I
would, in one way or another, come into contact with drugs and alcohol. The
choice was mine as it is with all of us. I chose to attempt, through love,
to help others who were actively involved in the use of drugs and alcohol.

Not long ago there was a documentary on PBS in which an interview took place
with three elderly, widowed, Chinese ladies. They related how their husbands
had all died as the result of becoming addicted to opium. In their
recollection they stipulated that opium was introduced to the Chinese by
another country in order to make slaves- coolies- of them so that they would
work until they dropped dead. These ladies also said that China was not
going to let this happen again and that if someone is now caught selling
drugs they shoot them.

Important decisions await us all.