Alchemy Forum 0451-0500

From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 451-500.
Go to next 50 messages . Back to forum archive.

Sun Mar 10 19:35:25 1996
Subject: 0451 Advantages of the practical alchemy

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 10 Mar 96 11:28:08 EST

OISPEGGY asked:
> So, what is it alchemists ingest to supplement and fortify their bodies? It
can't be merely food (matter), or a good diet alone would do the trick. It must
be energy, captured somehow. What kind of energy and how to find it? How is it
captured? Captured in food and drink? Captured via breathing? <

The strengthening of the physical body can be reached on different kind. The
consumed cells and materials in the body must be replaced. The food, the
drinking and the gases of the air serve to it. Because the human body is not
able to synthesize all chemical compounds itself, nutrients are necessary like
amino acids, carbohydrates, mineral substances, fats etc. It does not suffice
therefore merely to take in the chemical elements. The man is dependent on
organisms, which deliver him prepared materials: Plants, animals among others.
This is the material basis of our life.

Each diet, which leaves unconsidered these legalities, is thus one-sided and
longer-term leads to disturbances in the metabolism, i.e. diseases.

The metabolic processes are predominantly redox processes. Chemical compounds
change their oxidation state, substances with high chemical energy density are
burnt in the body to gain the energy necessary for the right working of the life
processes.

Beside that other energies work in the body, which are marked as fluids,
elemental forces etc. (confer earlier messages). By the ordinary man the fluids
likewise are unseen gained in the right quantity from the food and air. The
human body knows in the hidden, how much and which quantities of supernatural
energies are necessary to the right working of his organization.

So far the processes are legal and run down agreing in all men. If disturbances
appear in the balance of the powers, so result different ailments, which can
solidify to diseases at continuances. The body tries then to bring itself again
in balance. This is the immaterial basis of our life.

A primeval energy underlies everything existing. This energy owns one
characteristic, which explains the entire magic: It is intelligent, it is
conscious! The man disposes of self-confidence. The man can direct his
consciousness directly at the primeval energy by means of concentration and
imagination. With it he causes the concealed energies (fluid etc.) to become
active according to his wishes and intents. This is the basis of magic.

Most people do not know the possibility to be able to do consciously affect on
the concealed powers. Who knows the laws owns the master key to work actively on
an improvement of his whole nature, i.e. his body, his soul and his spirit. He
can consciously put ideas in the powers and so impregnate that material
substances. He can imagine e.g., that a malfunction of his body is equalized,
whereupon soon the gotten lost health is restored on magic way. To the magic
methods and way I would not like to respond more exactly, because much was
written about it already. Who would like to argue with this aspect of the life
more exactly, should study above all Franz Bardon's writings.

The consciously controllable energies, loaded with ideas, wishes or mental
orders of the own consciousness are the deeper basis of all breathing exercises
of the yogis. Also the food can be impregnated to such an extent in a way, that
it is more than only substitute of chemically consumed materials. In this way
man can make himself powers available alone through his consciousness, which
will raise him soon over the ordinary man. The laws and methods to it are very
simple. We need only to grab, for we swim in a gigantic ocean of invisible
conscious and intelligent energy!

The alchemists always have known these processes in their concealed legality.
They directly work with the concealed energies (fluids, elemental forces,
planetary powers etc.). Since they have recognized, that also these energies
obey laws like the known natural forces, magic and alchemical processes can be
understood and scientifically described. The difference between the present
sciences and alchemy therefore is only gradual.

The alchemists had noticed already long ago, that diseases, the aging process
and many disharmonies are not divinely-ordained. They found out, that such
conditions of man are no necessity. If man learns to timely take in the energies
necessary for his whole nature according to the laws and in right quantity, he
can live harmoniously in health and youthfulness as long as he wants.

If man utilizes only magic methods, so can he reach a condition of perfect
harmony under consideration of the physical, emotional and mental legalities. He
can become an adept alone in this way. The problem is only, that the learning of
all the methods lasts very long time and requires much discipline and patience.
Not each is successful in being effective on this way. Success can only have,
who learns to completely have his consciousness in the handle any time.

The basis of all undesirable conditions and/or all diseases is a defect of
energy or a disharmony of the powers working in man. A perfect magician can
equalize an imbalance in short time. A novice can not yet do this.

Thus the adepts of earlier time searched for further possibilities to get hold
of the invisible energies. Just as they felt the work of all the powers and
energies in their own nature, they felt the rampart of the energies in the whole
world and the cosmos. There should be however a way to make directly available
these powers of nature independently of man! Soon they found ways and means to
put into practice this hypothesis: the practical alchemy was born. Practical
alchemy is the applied knowledge, how the concealed energies can be gained alone
from matter and how they can be presented concentrated in matter. With it
immeasurable energies were available to the alchemist.

Chemistry is alchemy under this point of view. Work with the matter becomes for
chemical change of their materials to the purpose, to manufacture the material
basis of concealed energies. Practical outer alchemy is nothing but the
isolation and creation of a concrete material basis, which is able to
concentrate the concealed fluids in supreme concentration. An alchemical essence
is thus comparably to a condenser, only that its composition does not aim at
storing static electricity, but the primordial energies themselves.

The alchemists found always better ways to manufacture such substances. With
surprise they ascertained, that to it the consciousness of the alchemist is not
necessary! It suffices, if the alchemist brings together the right materials in
the right proportions under the right conditions. The matter itself begins to
store concealed energies, if it is properly prepared. The consciousness of the
alchemist only is in so far necessary, as he must understand, how matter is to
be handled.

In this sense alchemy does not differ from chemistry. But the synthesized
substances loaded with alchemical energies own much mightier characteristics
than usual chemical materials. Alchemical tinctures work magically! The taking
of an alchemical high-grade tincture is able to produce effects in the human
body, to which a magician only is capable under supreme concentration.

An alchemical adept is above the ordinary magician regarding development. Both
govern the matter. The magician can directly influence matter, to which he
always must apply his consciousness. An alchemist has the knowledge by contrast
to transform matter so, that it can work on other matter without conscious
concentration of the alchemist alone owing to their inside concentrated powers.

If an alchemist takes in his tinctures, so he is transformed to a magician in
much shorter time. There the same worlds present him, in which the magician
moves. Because alchemy goes beyond magic, it was called royal art.

Knowledge stands for power. Power always implies the possibility of the abuse of
power. A magician abusing his power will soon lose it. For his consciousness
will change in a way, that he is no more capable to apply the concealed energies
goal-oriented. An alchemist has a much higher power by contrast with it. For the
stone of the philosophers also keeps its powers independently of the alchemist.
The stone of the philosophers is to be compared in its interior energy to the
atomic bomb of the ordinary matter. It works also in the hands of the meddler,
and so the alchemists have always kept secret their most secret and best
processes since time immemorial.

It's up to divine providence, whom He wants to send this really divine
knowledge.

Lapis

Mon Mar 11 08:28:02 1996
Subject: 0452 Prima Materia / Spiritus Universalis

From: Matthias Zeiner
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 96 20:14:48 +0700

There is nothing I could add to the excellent descriptions of the PRIMA
MATERIA/SPIRITUS UNIVERSALIS as given in previous posts.
Just a thought.
In the practical alchemical process, as I understand it, this form of
energy is absorbed by and accumulated in a certain mineral substance that
occurs naturally in a more or less crude form and has to be purified and
prepared by the artist. In the actual rework, often referred to as
sublimation, the configuration of the element is changed and its entropy
decreased, i.e. it is carried over in a state of higher order, a process
that is reversible.This is achieved by use of a special device, sometimes
called our athanor or the secret furnace, that has never been revealed by
the ancient authors.

ORCIS wrote:
>
> ... This original marriage that speaks to us of the union of
>a Positive (Male/Cosmic/Od/outer fire) and Negative (Female/Telluric/
>/Kundalini/inner fire) energies, also constitute the primordial fire
>of nature. Through the Ages, different native cultures have become
>aware of its existence, and have tried to chanelled them through the
>usage of Dolmens, Menhirs, Gothic Cathedrals, Pyramids, etc., giving
>birth to art/sciences as Feng Shui, Sacred Geometry/Architecture, and
>others, which were developed with different but interconnected purposes
>in mind. ......
>
Good point!
The possible function of megalithic monuments, in an advanced form pyramid
shaped structures, to attract or concentrate certain energies has been
discussed. Maybe the late work of Wilhelm Reich also could be taken into
account in this context.
The consideration of these, perhaps at first sight extraneous concepts, in
the alchemical work could lead to a better understanding of one of the keys
to the art: the nature of the secret furnace.

Matthias Zeiner

Mon Mar 11 08:28:38 1996
Subject: 0453 Sources of practical alchemy

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 10 Mar 96 17:13:06 EST

ORCIS wrote:
>The Alchemists in turn are also trying to condense and potentialize this energy
through its laboratory processes, incorporating it to the other Materials...<

This is true.

>... while at the same time and most importantly adding its own internal divine
spark into the mixture.<

This ist possible, but NOT necessary!

>It is this internal energy of each Alchemist, that in my opinion, apports to
the Work the tuning fork after which his Stone in the process of creation will
resonate to. And that is why I feel that, as there are no two alchemist alike,
there are not two Philosopher's Stones alike.<

As I have written in an earlier message, the alchemist can influence the
progress of his work by means of magic methods. However he can also let work the
matter alone. In the rework the alchemists say again and again, that the
ingredients to the work are to be digested hermetically locked. In this stage
nothing more is added. Only time, presupposed the physical temperature is
correct, let ripen the work to the philosopher's stone.

The alchemists say: The king lies bare in his bath. He puts on invisible clothes
and emerges from the bath at end of the process wrapped in ruby-red clothes as
glorious sovereign of the world. The invisible clothes are the invisible fluids,
which the properly prepared matter attracts and is transformed by them. The
matter goes through different stages, visibly in different colors (peacock
tail). Ultimately the stone remains as ruby-red mass in the glass. The king has
newly fitted out himself with royal clothes.

>This is also why we must pray again and again, so that ourselves with the help
of God, and in a simbiotic process with our Lapis Philosophorum, continue to
evolve through the process that hopefully will carry us over to the successful
conclusion of our Opus Magnum.<

Without prayer and fear of God it does not actually function! However it is not
the prayer, which changes the matter, but it depends on the maturity and/or the
honest character of the alchemist, whether he can attain the knowledge, how he
must practically go ahead. Only if he is inwardly clear, he will be able to
understand the writings. Only then the words are meaningful, which he has read
perhaps dozens of times before without attaining clearness.

If the preparation of the philosopher's stone inalienably depend on the
assistance of the spirit and the powers of the alchemist, so all alchemical
processes would have been openly and clearly described. Why something keep
secret, if a meddler never could reach any result?

The matter contains the potential to the philosopher's stone independently of
man. The practical alchemist only helps nature to release the tremendous powers.
One can and may clearly separate between magic and practical alchemy.

Lapis

Mon Mar 11 08:31:38 1996
Subject: 0454 Buyout of Weidenfeld's book

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 10 Mar 96 17:13:13 EST

Dear Russ,

I would like to attach your message of 7th March the following: That the book of
Weidenfeld was bought up by the Rosicrucians did not first appear in lesson 36
of the Mineral Alchemy. Subsequently I would like to try to demonstrate the
origin of this assertion of Jean Dubuis:

As Frater Albertus had still hardly an expectation of alchemy and practically
worked first since short time, he travelled through whole Europe in search of
alchemists. About 1960 he met Alexander von Bernus. This man advised Frater
Albertus to the books of Becker and Weidenfeld.

Frater Albertus of course maintains in his book "Practical Alchemy in the
Twentieth Century" that Alexander von Bernus have learned much from him. In fact
it was reverse. This I have heard from one of the closest friends of Alexander
von Bernus, who told me once of the encounter between this both great alchemists
of the 20th century.

At any rate after that Frater Albertus began to work especially according to the
book of August Becker. These works led to the distillation of the philosophical
mercury. Frater Albertus emphasizes, that this process was for the first time
successful under presence of seven persons 1963. Three of the persons involved
in this distillation have told me independently of each other about it, why this
description is not to be doubted.

Jean Dubuis had worked together with Frater Albertus for years, before he went
his own way. Both ultimately have failed, because the view is wrong thinking the
distillate be the philosophical mercury.

Alexander von Bernus therefore is the source of the knowledge of the writings of
Becker and Weidenfeld for Dubuis as well as Albertus. Bernus had put both on
this track. Whether both already formerly had gained fundamental knowledge about
this way through the study of other writings, I don't know.

Alexander von Bernus published a book 1956, which was later reprinted under the
title "Alchemy and medical Art" (Alchymie und Heilkunst). Alexander von Bernus
writes therein (translated from the German edition):

>Strangely, this work about the secret spirit of wine of the adepts by Johann
Segerus Weidenfeld, one of the most informative books of the entire alchemical
literature, which newly was printed already a year after his first appearance in
London 1684 in Hamburg, a sign, that it found large interest, has never again
been reprinted since then. By no alchemical author neither of the 17th nor of
the 18th century it is mentioned also only in one word, and I know no state
library, where it would be to be found. It belongs to the rarest and most
difficult findable books of alchemy. This circumstance let suppose, the both
editions have been bought up immediately after the appearance by the Rosicrucian
lodge and the Illuminates, and a further dissemination of the book has been
suppressed by this side. The mysterious fact of the almost entire disappearance
of this book unique in the alchemical literature can not be explained
differently.<

Bernus owned both editions of the book already during the second World War. Most
of his practical works rest on it.

Bernus as first has expressed the conjecture the book of Weidenfeld being bought
up by the Rosicrucians. Dubuis made an assurance from it, which he derived from
the conjecture of Alexander von Bernus. With it it remains unanswered as always,
whether the book has been actually bought up shortly after the appearance by
these secret societies or not.

Lapis

PS: The whole really is not at all so important. It only shows, that often
original remarks or sights change their content, if they are handed down by
others. Thus one must study the original works of the alchemists. One must
descend to the source of the fountain to get hold of the hermetical birdie.

Mon Mar 11 08:33:02 1996
Subject: 0455 crocodiles

From: William A. Ryan
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 18:25:49 -0500

Jane
The Bestiary of Christ tells us that the crocodile is also known as the
cocodrille and the cockatrice, ...this last name, as we have said, is
still given in certain parts of France to the egg from which the
basilisk is supposed to hatch......
...The Egyptians made the basilisk, their uraeus, symbolize the idea of
eternity, says Horapollo.......

Another description from this wonderful book by Louis Chrabonneau-Lassay
says the dragon ... is nothing else but the crocodile endowed with
wings,( see Claude Gagnon 0322 on Alchemy Forum)

... The decoration of the altar of Narbonne which is in the Louvre, and
is attributed to the hand of the fourteenth-century Jehan d"Orleans,
depicts Jesus with the cross in his hand, standing in the opening of the
enormous, flaming maw of a saurian - the cocodrille of the bestiaries-
and out of it drawing forth Adam, the first of the righteous ones......

This is the only reference I have come up with so far,
Best Wishes
Kate Ryan

Mon Mar 11 08:33:36 1996
Subject: 0456 Albigeois & alchemy

From: VicStevens@aol.com
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 19:17:50 -0500
X-To: Alchemy@zz.com
Subject: Re: 0439 Albigeois & alchemy
X-Listname: Alchemy UNmoderated
To: alchemy@zz.com (Multiple recipients of Alchemy UNmoderated)
Errors-To: alchemy-owner@zz.com
Precedence: bulk

Patrick Smith writes >> It has even been suggested that the Stronghyli
cataclysm caused the Biblical Ten Plagues in northern Egypt (red rain,
darkened skies,
etc). According to these highly speculative accounts, the enslaved
Israelites tooke advantage of the confusion to begin their epic
migration. Some Egyptian records do point to such a catastrophy.
Reads one papyrus: "The land is utterly perished... the sun is veiled
and shines not."<<

In Charles Pelligrino's book, "Return to Sodom and Gomorrah", Random House
1994, an excellent, secular look at bible stories through the study of
archaeology, there are several references to the Thera eruption, and it's
impact on other cultures, some as far away as China. The accounts are more
than 'highly speculative", according to Pellegrino.
From the ash layer showing the aftermath of volcanic dust and debris swept
over several Mediterranean locations, comes proof of an eruption in BC 1628.
The Egyptian papyrus was more detailed than your quote, and contains language
virtually identical to Exodus 33:11.

Pellegrino also cites Chinese records dated to BC 1628 that describe
meterological upheavals likely due to the Thera eruption, the way Krakatoa's
last big bang impacted the globe's weather. He puts forth a good argument
and evidence for the impact of the Thera eruption, which I think has more
weight than "highly speculative". A great read, BTW.

Mon Mar 11 08:34:17 1996
Subject: 0457 Matter and Energy and Alchemy

From: OISPEGGY@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 21:32:00 -0500 (EST)

From: Logodox

>[The problem with the solution is that it requires destroying oneself (the
>ego anyway)]

>No!

>[which is not appealing,]

>Yes it is! Expand Your SELF to be all things, then harmonize and feel love
>for the majesty of this creation!

>[particularly because the ego had a lot to do with starting the endeavor in
>the firstplace.]

>Doubtful...ego is a false accumulation, albeit necessary at many levels.

You sound very sure, Logodox, of how it all works and your place in it.
Obviously that works well for you.

I like t=

Mon Mar 11 08:35:12 1996
Subject: 0458 "Matter-Energy" spin-off

From: OISPEGGY
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 21:46:16 -0500 (EST)

>From: Diane Munoz

>You see. The destruction of the ego-self is not necessary... your addiction
to it and its demand to keep you from changing is what is needed to be
destroyed. "You" are not your personality. It is only a miniscule part of
what YOU are. You have to be willing to turn away from the never-ending
demand from it for attention and turn yourself (your mind) to questions and
answers "outside" of it (of course, that is an illusion that _anything_ is
outside of you but it is the best term to use to inspire expansion out of
your known universe). Your ego-self used as a tool is your unique door to
knowing the unknown for it generates the catch-22's that make you say WHY?!
the question why? is so important because when you've discovered an
inconsistency or contradiction or injustice it means that you don't
understand the perspective that would allow this to exist in a universe of
opposites. When you can diffuse the opposition is when you can move on.

And in my discovery of the knowledge that I have craved to know, the one
question I have asked that has kept the process of knowing on a continuing
flow is "How is it possible that this could be so? What perspective could I
come from that would answer this particular question?" And always, the
answer includes the the coming together of opposing views (unity) and
dissipates any anger or judgment I had had that lead up to the question.
AND (this is the best part) it has demanded the asking of the NEXT
question--which I could never have seen until that moment. Thus the
continuum of making known the unknown and expanding that forever and ever.

To me that is what LIFE is about. Everyone's journey to understanding and
expanding and changing is different. But it seems it is perpetuated by
asking the same kinds of questions.

Regards....
Diane (Armenua)

Mon Mar 11 08:36:32 1996
Subject: 0459 Matter and Energy and Alchemy

From: Art Kunkin
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 21:36:05 -0800 (PST)

Peggy stated:

>The universe and all it contains, I have read, is composed of
>either energy or matter.

I would like to refer you, Peggy, to a rather amazing book called
"Living Systems" by James Grier Miller. Miller hypothesizes that there is
not only matter and energy but information. By showing the permutations
possible with the three, he demonstrates how living biological and social
systems are similarly organized at seven hierarchical levels (the cell is
like an organ is like an organism is like a group, etc.;as above, so below,
and vice versa) according to 19 "laws." This is a huge book, a product of
40 years of work, and I would recommend it to any alchemist asking the
questions that you are posing in this forum. Cordially, Art Kunkin

Art Kunkin
Publisher and Editor, World Wide Free Press
URL: http://www.wwfreepress.com/
Voice: 310-455-2451 E-Mail: kunkin@cinenet.net
Snail Mail: 115 S. Topanga Canyon Blvd, Suite #166

Topanga, CA 90290, U.S.A.
"It's Never Too Late To Have A Happy Childhood"
(Ask me how!)

Mon Mar 11 08:37:30 1996
Subject: 0460 ritual and alchemy

From: kunkin@cinenet.net (Art Kunkin)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 21:36:02 -0800 (PST)

George Randall Leake III recently asked the following.
>
>
>Just wondering since someone recently had said "where's the magic in
>alchemy" if anyone out there conductstheir lab work as a ritual
>(consciously or unconsciously)?

I find it very useful to regularly "discuss" my laboratory work with
Paracelsus and some other known and unknown alchemists of the past along
the lines of Napoleon Hill's "Master Mind" meditation technique that he
proposes in his various books, including "Think and Grow Rich." On the
surface Hill goes overboard in his materialism but, in my opinion, his
teaching goes far simply making money. However, I personally add some more
advanced Sufi, Huna and Tibetan Buddhist meditational techniques to what
Hill suggests. Cordially, Art Kunkin

Art Kunkin
Publisher and Editor, World Wide Free Press
URL: http://www.wwfreepress.com/
Voice: 310-455-2451 E-Mail: kunkin@cinenet.net
Snail Mail: 115 S. Topanga Canyon Blvd, Suite #166

Topanga, CA 90290, U.S.A.
"It's Never Too Late To Have A Happy Childhood"
(Ask me how!)

Mon Mar 11 18:54:56 1996
Subject: 0461 Newton's Alchemy

From: Manwing@aol.com
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 05:50:14 -0500

I live in Los Angeles and cannot find the book in the downtown library or
their card electronic catalog (they carry The Janus Faces of Genius). I
would like to buy the book if possible but would be more than satisfied with
an opportunity to read it (I need it for research). Thanks.

Tue Mar 12 09:46:45 1996
Subject: 0462 Dry-way/Wet-way

From: RawnClark
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:09:27 -0500

Dear Lapis,

WOW! WOW! and WOW again!!!

I feel VERY fortunate to have the benefit of the words
of such a fine Alchemist as yourself!!!

Your latest posts have helped immensely. They have
seeded many thoughts and questions, one of which I will
ask here: Would you please define "Wet-way" and
"Dry-way"?

Again, I humbly thank you for this fine Gift of Wisdom
you so freely and kindly offer to the Forum.

Best to you!
:) Rawn Clark
11 Mar 96

Tue Mar 12 09:50:31 1996
Subject: 0463 Matter and Energy and Alchemy

From: OISPEGGY
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:40:17 -0500 (EST)

My email connection blew up twice while trying to respond to
two of the many interesting comments posted here recently,
so I take that as a sign for me to be quiet and listen (and
maybe get a more reliable connection from home).

Sorry for any confusion my misfired mail caused.

- Peggy -

Tue Mar 12 09:50:40 1996
Subject: 0464 Buyout of Weidenfeld's book

From: Russ House
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:21:31 -0500

Dear Beat,

I appreciate the additional information and correction that you bring on
this matter. The topic of Weidenfeld is of such value, that it is good to
see myths and errors removed. I do not repeat the whole response below, but
will make responses to a few sections.

>From: Beat Krummenacher
>Date: 10 Mar 96 17:13:13 EST
>
>
>Dear Russ,
>
>I would like to attach your message of 7th March the following: That the
book of
>Weidenfeld was bought up by the Rosicrucians did not first appear in lesson 36
>of the Mineral Alchemy. Subsequently I would like to try to demonstrate the
>origin of this assertion of Jean Dubuis:
>
>As Frater Albertus had still hardly an expectation of alchemy and practically
>worked first since short time, he travelled through whole Europe in search of
>alchemists. About 1960 he met Alexander von Bernus. This man advised Frater
>Albertus to the books of Becker and Weidenfeld.
>
>Frater Albertus of course maintains in his book "Practical Alchemy in the
>Twentieth Century" that Alexander von Bernus have learned much from him. In
fact
>it was reverse. This I have heard from one of the closest friends of Alexander
>von Bernus, who told me once of the encounter between this both great
alchemists
>of the 20th century.
>
That Albertus learned more from von Bernus is not a great surprise. I remember
being told by Albertus that he taught Alchemy in San Jose. He told others this.
I knew more than one of the class members of the 1940-1944 Alchemy classes at
RCU. Among them, Albertus was the only one who believed that Albertus had been
the teacher. It is true that he thought that he knew more than the
teacher/s, and openly said so.

>... clip...
>Jean Dubuis had worked together with Frater Albertus for years, before he went
>his own way. Both ultimately have failed, because the view is wrong
thinking the
>distillate be the philosophical mercury.

Beat, I do not believe that Mr. Dubuis worked with Frater Albertus for any
length of time. It will be possible for you to verify this in May. To the best of
my knowledge he met with Albertus only 1 or 2 times. One of the meetings was with
Pancaldi, when the latter arranged the meeting of Albertus with Canseliet. Dubuis did work
together with Pancaldi, who was a guest in Dubuis home on occasion.

>Alexander von Bernus therefore is the source of the knowledge of the writings of
>Becker and Weidenfeld for Dubuis as well as Albertus. Bernus had put both on
>this track. Whether both already formerly had gained fundamental knowledge about
>this way through the study of other writings, I don't know.
>
>Alexander von Bernus published a book 1956, which was later reprinted under the
>title "Alchemy and medical Art" (Alchymie und Heilkunst). Alexander von Bernus
>writes therein (translated from the German edition):
>
>...clip..... It belongs to the rarest and most
>difficult findable books of alchemy. This circumstance let suppose, the both
>editions have been bought up immediately after the appearance by the
Rosicrucian
>lodge and the Illuminates, and a further dissemination of the book has been
>suppressed by this side. The mysterious fact of the almost entire disappearance
>of this book unique in the alchemical literature can not be explained
>differently.<
>
>Bernus as first has expressed the conjecture the book of Weidenfeld being
bought
>up by the Rosicrucians. Dubuis made an assurance from it, which he derived from
>the conjecture of Alexander von Bernus. With it it remains unanswered as
always,
>whether the book has been actually bought up shortly after the appearance by
>these secret societies or not.

It seems likely that the story is exactly as you have presented it. Dubuis
has a great respect for von Bernus and those of his lineage, and would be familiar with
his works. I do not know if Jean and Alexander von Bernus were personally acquainted --
it will be an interesting question.

>PS: The whole really is not at all so important. It only shows, that often
>original remarks or sights change their content, if they are handed down by
>others. Thus one must study the original works of the alchemists. One must
>descend to the source of the fountain to get hold of the hermetical birdie.

Agreed. This is a mere bubble in the fountain, and yet it is important to be as
careful of the truth as we know how, and to respect the value of better facts
(and truths) than we previously knew when we are presented them, whether by
experience, by the hand of Nature, or by the gesture of a friend on the Path.

Regards,

Russ House
====================================
Courses in Alchemy * Qabala * Esoteric Studies
The Philosophers of Nature on the web:
http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/
email: alchemy@mcs.com

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" - Groucho Marx

Wed Mar 13 19:06:21 1996
Subject: 0465 Plant mercury

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 12 Mar 96 20:11:02 EST

Andrew Minkin wrote:
> I have a general question about plant mercury, what I understand to be ethanol
(or carried by the ethanol). I know that it is easy to come by if you ferment
herbs, but what about using a jar maceration or Soxhlet extraction? Does plant
mercury exist comingling with the alchohol menstruum or is it not released
without more of a "natural" alchemical process? I welcome any opinions and
personal experience on this matter.<

Ethyl alcohol is the material basis of the plant mercury. Alcohol owns the
characteristic to attract vegetable spiritual powers. If one uses alcohol for
the extraction of a plant by means of maceration or Soxhlet extraction, so a
certain part of the mental powers of the plant can be isolated with it.

Such a method nevertheless is not spagyric. The reason is easy to understand.
The alchemists have emphasized again and again, that a new birth only can happen
after the death of a being. In reference to plants this means, that only then a
plant can appear in a new figure, if it previously dies. From spagyric view the
death means disintegration of the inner structure of the plant in reference to
the three alchemical principles Sal, Sulfur and Mercurius.

Concerning plants this disintegration - the death - is only attainable through
fermentation. Extraction processes isolate only soluble extractive substances, a
spagyric disintegration does not occur. The fermentation of a plant can not be
replaced thus by an extraction or maceration with alcohol. Extraction or
maceration lead to ordinary plant tinctures, them spagyric characteristics
almost fully are missing. Even if one gives the ash or the water-soluble salts
of the plant to the alcoholic extract, one receives no spagyric essence. The
plant must be fermented!

One may not forget: The putrefaction or fermentation dissolves the inner
structure of the healing powers of a plant with regard to all three alchemical
principles. First after resulted fermentation the three alchemical principles
are found in the fermentation mass in a form, which makes possible the
separation of the pure healing powers of the curative effect hindering dissonant
components.

The effect of the putrefaction is materially especially obviously illustrated:
The plant loses its form through the fermentation. Its spirit is released in a
perceptible form. The alcohol emerges through the fermentation process. If one
distills the mixture, so one receives the alcohol specific for plants loaded
with the medical mercurial powers of the processed plant.

The same is valid for the Sulfur and the Sal. Each who once has fermented a
plant, can directly attest this through his own perception. The most plants
first develop an aroma typical for them through the fermentation process, which
is to be led back first of all to been released sulphuric components. The
physical basis is found in the salts, which likewise endure certain changes.

Summed up: The fermentation is in the beginning of each correct spagyric
processing of plants. Extraction or maceration with alcohol are no spagyric
processes.

Who wants to read more about practice and theory of these processes is referred
to my little booklet "Spagyric Tinctures - Tradition, Preparation and Usage" .

Lapis
100667.1267@compuserve.com

Wed Mar 13 19:06:30 1996
Subject: 0466 Why do we age?

From: Patrick J. Smith
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 16:00:54 -0700

On Fri, 08 Mar 1996 OISPEGGY asked:

> Then why do we age? What is it that alchemists do that stops aging?

The short answer to the latter question (for a successful alchemist)
is, of course, that they use the Philosopher's Stone. But this merely
shifts the question to: What is the Philosopher's Stone? The answer
to this question requires a brief digression into alchemical
philosophy.

The ancient philosophers observed that, in the autumn, leaves fall
from the trees, the grasses wither, and the forms of the past year
dissolved into the earth from whence they sprang.

Winter, in the view of the alchemists, is the time of putrefaction in
Nature. Especially in the vegetable kingdom, winter was a time of
death, when living forms were destroyed and decomposed into their
first chaotic matter. Animal forms, too, were decomposed over the
course of the winter, and even in the mineral realm, where the earth
was saturated with water for long periods, putrefaction was thought to
occur.

In the spring, new forms emerged from the dark, formless earth: grasses
in the fields; herbs in the woods; and these living forms represented
the purest parts of the black earth from which they arose. Thus, in
the phenomenon of spring, the alchemists saw the emergence of order
from chaos, of life from death, of generation from putrefaction.
Similarly, as sap began once again to flow in the trees, the chaotic
elements drawn from the earth were separated---the subtle from the
gross; the pure from the impure. Michael Sendivogius beautifully
describes this process as it manifests in an apple tree awakening from
winter's sleep: ``...the pure is congealed into flowers, the impure
becomes leaves, the gross and thick hardens into bark... the flowers
receive a colour according to the quality of the natural heat, and
bear fruit or seed.''

The alchemical Opus was like this, as it was drawn entirely from
nature. The operations began with the dissolution and putrefaction of
the metallic body, decomposing it into its first matter---a formless,
chaotic, pitch-black mass. And just as the alchemists believed that
putrefaction took place in the Winter, and that all generation
proceeded from putrefaction, so too the stage of putrefaction in the
alchemical Opus was often represented as Winter. In the view of the
alchemists, this was not a mere analogy. The metals were thought to
be living, in possession of a `generative spirit', and hence as
capable of putrefaction and generation as animals and vegetables.
Indeed, metals and minerals were thought to grow within the earth, and
mines were sometimes closed for a while so that the mineral veins
could be regenerated.

Then, through a natural process, the subtle part of the decomposed
mass was separated from the gross, the pure from the impure. And out
of the death of the living metal, a new, regenerated living form would
arise, purer than the dead body from which it arose. This was the
Stone, and its appearance was represented as a resurrection, a birth,
as the gathering together of light from out of the darkness. This
process of regeneration was considered equivalent to the appearance of
flowers in the Spring, and so the Stone, which represented the purest
part of the mass from which it arose, was often represented as a
flower---a rose in particular.

The various metals known to the alchemists were not believed to be
fundamentally different from each other. They were thought to be
compound substances containing more or less impurities, and more or
less of the principles of sulphur and mercury. It followed that the
Stone could be generated from the decomposition of any of the metals.
But since gold was considered to be the purest and most noble of the
metals, and since it was the purest part of metals that was to be
extracted, it made sense that the metallic body to be decomposed be
gold. Thus the Stone has been described as the purest part of gold.
Philalethes, for instance, writes:

Whoever wishes to possess this secret Golden Fleece,
which has virtue to transmute metals into gold, should know
that our Stone is nothing but gold digested to the highest
degree of purity and subtle fixation to which it can be
brought by Nature and the highest effort of Art; and this gold
thus perfected is called ``our gold,'' no longer vulgar, and is
the ultimate goal of Nature.
--An Open Entrance to the Closed Palace of the King

To this, Authors assent with one accord; when they say our
Stone is nothing else but Gold digested unto the highest degree, to
which Nature and Art can bring it...
--Exposition Upon the Vision of Sir George Ripely

In Philalethes `Open Entrance' and in his `Principles', there is a
progression that begins with the regimen of Saturn and ends with the
regimen of Gold. In between are regimens corresponding to all the
other of the seven known metals in order of increasing purity and
perfection. Saturn, or lead, was considered to be the least perfect
of the metals; gold the most perfect. Thus the progression represents
a gradual purification beginning with putrefaction.

Now, successive putrefactions and separations produced successively
purer results. On this subject Sendivogius writes:

For Nature produces pure things by means of the first putrefaction,
but things far purer by means of the second, as you see in the case
of wood, where vegetable fibre is produced as the result of the
first putrefaction, while the putrefaction of wood engenders worms
and insects---natural forms endowed with sentient life; and it is
clear that animate creatures endowed with sense and motion belong
to a higher creative level, and are moulded of a purer substance
than plants.

Similarly, as the Stone underwent successive putrefactions,
sublimations, etc., it became purer, and hence its transmutative
power and medicinal virtue were greatly enhanced. For this reason,
the alchemists advised that the ``wheel'' should be turned several
times. Thus there were several putrefactions and several
distillations. Thus also the blackness, or chaotic first matter,
appears several times during the Work.

Now, according to the view of alchemical philosophy, all corruption
(combustibility, corrosion, etc.) was due to impurities. Hence, the
less pure baser metals were much more subject to corruption than gold,
which the ancient philosophers observed to be relatively stable in the
fire and relatively inert with respect to corrosive materials. And
thus the purest part of gold, which was the Stone, was characterized
as incorruptible, and in the fire it was said that it wastes not. The
Stone was also said to be able to cleanse the baser metals of their
impurities---and thereby transmute them to gold, since gold was
considered to be the purest metallic form.

In the animal realm, sickness, aging, and ultimately death, were
similarly attributed to corruption, which was due to impure substances
having been incorporated into the animal frame. Sendivogius argued
that the Patriarchs lived to a great age essentially because they were
composed, in part, of the pure materials from the Garden of Eden,
which were not subject to the law of putrefaction. However, over
time, mankind gradually became contaminated with corruptible matter,
thus greatly limiting his span of years. It followed that if the impure
components could be purged from the human constitution, then health
and, perhaps, youth might be regained. And, in fact, the Stone was
believed to be able to cleanse these impurities in the animal and
vegetable realms just as in the mineral realm. Thus the Stone was
sometimes referred to as the medicine of the three realms.

-Patrick
p-smith@nemesis.slc.unisysgsg.com

Wed Mar 13 19:06:39 1996
Subject: 0467 Questions & Hopefully Answers

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:47:30 +1100

To: Alchemy@zz.com
Subject: Question & Hopefully Answers

1) To obtain a herbal tincture, i.e. a diluted extract, one of the three
methods is used: maceration, circulation or extraction (with extractor).
On what does it depend which method is used? When are the various methods
applied? To get what?

2) Does anyone know what substance (stuff) is used for anaesthetic?
What actually happens, so that no pain is experienced? Which part of our
triune is separated?

3) How much conventional chemistry do I have to learn in order to practise
Spagyric Alchemy? Which operations? Which processes?

I will be thankful for your answers.
Petra.

---
Petra Christiane Gottlieb
petrag@iaccess.com.au
---
OHNE LIEBE KEINE KUNST! (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!

Wed Mar 13 19:06:50 1996
Subject: 0468 Albigeois & alchemy

From: Joshua Geller
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:27:55 -0800

VicStevens@aol.com writes:

PS > Patrick Smith writes >> It has even been suggested that the Stronghyli
PS > cataclysm caused the Biblical Ten Plagues in northern Egypt (red rain,
PS > darkened skies,
PS > etc). According to these highly speculative accounts, the enslaved
PS > Israelites tooke advantage of the confusion to begin their epic
PS > migration. Some Egyptian records do point to such a catastrophy.
PS > Reads one papyrus: "The land is utterly perished... the sun is veiled
PS > and shines not."<<

> In Charles Pelligrino's book, "Return to Sodom and Gomorrah", Random House
> 1994, an excellent, secular look at bible stories through the study of
> archaeology, there are several references to the Thera eruption, and it's
> impact on other cultures...

> Pellegrino also cites Chinese records dated to BC 1628 that describe
> meterological upheavals likely due to the Thera eruption, the way Krakatoa's
> last big bang impacted the globe's weather. He puts forth a good argument
> and evidence for the impact of the Thera eruption, which I think has more
> weight than "highly speculative". A great read, BTW.

thera's affect has also been confirmed by icecap cores and tree ring
analysis. this is important, among many other reasons, because it gives
us a firm benchmark date in the mid-late bronze age. there is a fair
amount of controversy because the old line archaeologists don't want
to give up their pottery clock, dates of which are consistently about
180 years too young.

josh

Wed Mar 13 19:07:13 1996
Subject: 0469 more crocodiles

From: Maury
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:38:05 -0500

On Mar 10, 1996, Jon writes:

>>The next possibility is that the crocodile has an iconographic, or
commentary value... The Bodlian MS 764 bestiary recently published by Folio
claims that Crocodiles represent hippocrits p62 and Topsell agrees with this
mentioning the crocodile's tears "to get a man within his danger he will sob,
sigh and weep as though he were in extremity,but suddenly he destroys
him..... the proverb notes the wretched nature of hypocritical hearts which
beforehand with feigned tears endeavour to do mischief.." (p53-4)<<

Adding to your conjecture about the crocodile's significance, see Robert
Burton, *Anatomy of Melancholy* (1621-1651), pt. III, sec.2, member 2,
subsec.4, on crocodile tears. Sir John Suckling (1609-1642) writes in *The
Sad One,* Act IV, sc. v, "She's false as the tears of crocodiles." This idea
of "crocodile tears" may go back to Phaedrus (c. 8 CE) who wrote in his
Fables, "It has been related that dogs drink at the river Nile running along,
that they may not be seized by the crocodiles." Pliny the Elder in his
*Natural History,* Bk. VIII, sec. 148, relates the same fact. "To treat a
thing as the dogs do the Nile" was a common proverb, signifying superficial
treatment.

On one hand, one could speculate that the image derives from Hellenistic
nature philosophy with an admixture of Egyptian influences, and not from
Christian or Biblical sources. F.i., going back to the alchemical texts of
Zosimos, one finds in his texts that in the "divine water," whose dyophysite
nature is constantly emphasized, two principles balance one another, which
constitute the essence of creative power in the eternal cycle of birth and
death. This cycle being represented in ancient alchemy by the symbol of the
uroboros, and in Egypt the darkness of the soul was represented as a
crocodile (see Budge, *The Gods of the Egyptians,* I, 286). This "divine
water" or wonder-working water, because of its mystical power, animates and
fertilizes but also kills, and its nature was thought of as dark - derived
from the "brooding" of the Spirit upon chaos (see *Corpus Hermeticum,* I).

The idea that a crocodile has a dark "brooding" quality was portrayed by the
contemporary author, Frederico Lorca when he wrote:

"In the parched path
I have seen the good lizard
(one drop of crocodile)
meditating."
from "The Old Lizard" (1921)

On the other hand, from Biblical sources, one can find a wonderful
description of the crocodile in the Book of Job starting on 40:25 - 41:26.
The crocodile was an iconographic representation of the Leviathan, which I
imagine the medieval alchemist would be aware of since the images of the
Bible were held in different esteem in those days than today. The passage
starts with:

"Can you draw out Leviathan with a fish hook,
or press down his tongue with a cord?"

and ends with:

"He beholds everything that is high
He is king over all the proud beasts."

In this passage Job is being shown the abysmal aspect of God - the primordial
concupiscence of being which man participates in as the ground of his being.
Like the old gods Yahweh has his animal symbolism with its unmistakable
borrowings from the much older theriomorphic gods of Egypt. I can't go into
the significance of this symbolism for alchemistic psychology at this time.

On Mar 10, 1996, Kate Ryan offered this wonderful image as an amplification
of the crocodile symbol:

>>... The decoration of the altar of Narbonne which is in the Louvre, and is
attributed to the hand of the fourteenth-century Jehan d"Orleans, depicts
Jesus with the cross in his hand, standing in the opening of the enormous,
flaming maw of a saurian - the cocodrille of the bestiaries- and out of it
drawing forth Adam, the first of the righteous ones......<<

As an interesting parallel to this altar decoration, I was reminded of an
illustration called the "Capture of the Leviathan" found in a translation of
Herrad of Landsberg's *Hortus deliciarum* (12th cent.). In this
illustration, the Leviathan (crocodile) is captured by the sevenfold tackle
of the line of David. The bait is the crucifix. This image has many Gnostic
parallels. The idea is that light acts as a poison to darkness. The
crocodile (Leviathan) is destroyed from within by offering him poison, and
then he undergoes a four-fold differentiation.

Certain creation myths have a characteristic feature that the original prima
materia in the course of its early elaboration must be subjected to a
four-fold division, divided into four elements, and this cross of the four
elements constitutes the cross of Physis. Its how matter gets incarnated and
comes into the world. It refers to the alchemical coagulatio process.

The fact that this is a cross is an allusion to the conflict of opposites and
Christ's crucifixion. In alchemy, it is part of the symbolic picture of
mortificatio. Its the nigredo in its extreme form. It refers to images of
rotting, killing, decaying, and decomposing. What undergoes mortificatio is
the "slaying of the dragon," that first elementary state.

And finally... just for fun... when I grew up we used to recite a rhyme
from Lewis Carroll's *Alice's Adventures in Wonderland* - some of you may
remember it:

"How does the little crocodile
Improve his shining tail,
And pour the waters of the Nile
On every golden scale!

How cheerfully he seems to grin,
How neatly spreads his claws,
And welcomes little fishes in
With gently smiling jaws!"

;-)

Maury

Thu Mar 14 11:38:30 1996
Subject: 0470 more crocodiles

From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:37:38 -0600

RE:Maury's dissertation on crocodiles, [Message 0469]

*perhaps the myth of "crocodile tears" is similar to "playing
possum"...both animals engage in this behavior in nature...crocodiles
assume the role of logs or pretend to be asleep/disiniterested, then SNAP!
Possums pretend to be dead as a defense mechanism...take it from someone
who's lived in Texas and Florida most of his life!

Thu Mar 14 11:40:36 1996
Subject: 0471 Dubuis/Frater Albertus

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 13 Mar 96 19:25:15 EST

Russ House wrote:
>Beat, I do not believe that Mr. Dubuis worked with Frater Albertus for any
length of time. It will be possible for you to verify this in May. To the best
of my knowledge he met with Albertus only 1 or 2 times. One of the meetings was
with Pancaldi, when the latter arranged the meeting of Albertus with Canseliet.
Dubuis did work together with Pancaldi, who was a guest in Dubuis home on
occasion.<

Dear Russ,
it is quite possible, that Frater Albertus and Jean Dubuis physically worked
little with each other. Indeed it is striking, how exactly Dubuis was informed
about the works with the philosophical mercury according to Albertus. I assumed
thus, that they both would have worked together for a longer time. An answer of
Dubuis to this theme had strengthened this conjecture in addition in Chicago at
the seminar 1992.

I did not know, that Pancaldi and Dubuis were friends. As I once had met
Pancaldi, we spoke about works with the "wine" . It is a fact, that some has
been strongly influenced by the experiences of Pancaldi, which Frater Albertus
has said or written on the wine works. The good intimacy of Dubuis with the
works of Frater Albertus could be to be led back therefore to the acquaintance
of Dubuis with Pancaldi. For if two men have taken over much from a third, whom
they both jointly knew, it may appear so, as if close contacts would have
consisted between both.

If possibly I would like to gladly clarify this point at the seminar in Colorado
in May.

Thank you very much for the information.

Lapis

Thu Mar 14 11:41:23 1996
Subject: 0472 representations of hands with alchemical symbols

From: Claire Sherman
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 20:42:49 -800

Can anyone tell me about alchemical texts with illustrations of hands with alchemical symbols?
Thank you very much.
Claire Sherman

Thu Mar 14 11:43:12 1996
Subject: 0473 Another Lighter Moment

From: petrag@iaccess.com.au (Petra Gottlieb)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 19:20:56 +1100

On behalf of Alec Gathercole

Within the human body there is a metaphysical substance which is known to
the few. It is in no need of medication as it is a medicine itself. Its
virtues are powerful, potent and patient. The astute seeker may through this
realise that the way from the physical to the philosophical is via this
metaphysical substance and is an occult procedure.
It has tact, reticence, abstinence and honour. It has a as yet still small
voice, but can screw up the solar plexus. If we call it Heart, soul,
intellect or even conscience it matters not for it can tell us more than any
library if properly nourished. Ego despises it.

And also on Conscience

Conscience is the spiritual mentor of everyone, inspiring to integrity and
righteousness and also forewarning against incorrect actions. It acts in
accordance with the individual's level of development; thus a savage or
animalistic type could do what a civilised educated person could not do
without the interference of conscience. With an individual's advancement in
understanding so will it strengthen its influence on the right to act. The
more one's unfoldment, the stronger is the admonition to be received.
It's presence is known as an urge or as a soundless voice interceding
between thought and action, not only warning against wrong doing, but for a
self sacrificing deed it will send approval, even a blessing, felt in the heart.
It is mankind's sole guide in moral right and wrong, without it civilisation
is not possible.
People may follow codes of ethics, mores and dogman written by authoritative
organisations, which are often distorted by desires, prejudices and beliefs.
This is unworthy guidance. One may lose all contact with conscience and
become a lost soul.
It is the voice of the Inner Self ever striving to lead the Ego into ways of
rectitude and it is well known that pangs of conscience are punishment for
errors in judgement. With willingness and homage from a persevering aspirant
it becomes the instructor in divine knowledge by revelation, since it is the
voice of the Spiritual Self innate withieryone's journey The one who at all times strives to live in acquiescence with conscience
will be lifted to higher and nobler conditions eventually to become illumined.
A revised version of the previously unpublished ancient manuscript is
included in Spiritual Light edited by John M. Pryse.

Alec (petrag@iaccess.com.au)

Thu Mar 14 11:53:48 1996
Subject: 0474 How Sweet It Is...

From: Russ House
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 18:30:55 -0500

Only a short time ago, I was concerned for the health of this forum. If you
take a 'sniff' of the air around here today, it is very fresh and alive.

Yes, there is controversy, yes, there are differences of opinion. These are
signs of life, and of health. When all think the same way, there is no
purpose served in discussion. This forum is serving a wonderful purpose
today and it has all of the signs of life and vitality that one would hope
for in a forum of this nature.

How sweet it is...

Thanks Adam, for making it happen!
====================================
Courses in Alchemy * Qabala * Esoteric Studies
The Philosophers of Nature on the web:
http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/
email: alchemy@mcs.com

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" - Groucho Marx

Thu Mar 14 12:20:14 1996
Subject: 0475 How Sweet It Is...

Thanks should really go the all the contributors who have kept to the rules of constructive discussion, and to the new system operator Buzz Lange. I have actually enjoyed running the forum since the new setup. During January and early February it was no fun at all - most days I woke up to a number of unpleasant messages from some disruptive people either through the forum or direct to my E-mail address. All this has now stopped. There was also a terrible problem with the Colloquium listserver which meant that many messages were going astray, and I had a number of frustrated users rightly complaining about lost mail. I have not yet had any complaints about missing mail from the zz.com system.

The new moderated structure means that it is impossible for people to disrupt the flow of discussion, and in fact I have only rejected two messages - one because it seemed barely relevant to alchemy, and the other because it was sent as a series of disconnected parts of the same text (and I have asked the person concerned to send me the complete text so I can place it onto the Web site). I have also rejected a couple of "I agree" type messages, and sent them instead only to the writer of the original message. There is little point in posting out such messages to all 250 people on the forum.

Another factor which has served to refocuss the alchemy forum to discussing alchemy, is the establishment of a specialist forum for the discussion of Dave Hudson's material. I know a number of alchemy forum subscribers couldn't see the relevance of much of the Dave Hudson material to alchemy.

I am sure that with the new structure the alchemy fourm will continue to provide a means for us all to ask questions, share our ideas and insights with others. That is what I set it up to do.

With my best wishes,

Adam McLean

Thu Mar 14 19:24:37 1996
Subject: 0476 Questions & Hopefully Answers -Reply

From: Gilbert Arnold
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:45:40 -0500

In response to;

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:47:30 +1100

1) To obtain a herbal tincture, i.e. a diluted extract, one of the three
methods is used: maceration, circulation or extraction (with extractor).
On what does it depend which method is used? When are the various
methods applied? To get what?

First, get a copy of Dr. Junius's book "Handbook of Herbal Alchemy" and
the PON Herbal course. A copy of Glaser's book might also be useful. If
you read french, Solazaref's book on herbal alchemy and Jean Maveric's
"Medecine Hermetique des plantes" are very useful.

The type of extraction used is mainly a function of the thermosensitivity of
what you are extracting from the raw plant material, what type of
preparation you are making and the menstruum or extraction agent used.
There are other factors that you will discover as you practice.

2) Does anyone know what substance (stuff) is used for anaesthetic?
What actually happens, so that no pain is experienced? Which part of our
triune is separated?

A standard textbook on pharmacology (pharmakokinetics, receptor sites)
would answer your question. It depends on what chemicals are being
used.

3) How much conventional chemistry do I have to learn in order to practise
Spagyric Alchemy? Which operations? Which processes?

As much as you can. Again, get a copy of Dr. Junius's book "Handbook of
Plant Alchemy" and the PON Herbal course; within these works you will
find references to other books or classical texts. You should know as
much "conventional chemistry " to operate distillations, extractions ect.
The PON Herbal material and it's supplement on lab safety are a good
start.

Thu Mar 14 19:25:34 1996
Subject: 0477 representations of hands with alchemical symbols

From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:42:44 -0600

>From: Claire Sherman wrote-->
>Can anyone tell me about alchemical texts with illustrations of hands with
>alchemical symbols?

**offhand I'd suggests Llewellyn's 1993 edition of Henry Cornelius
Agrippa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy. I believe it includes
several...I know for sure there's at least one reproduction of a woodcut of
a hand of glory.

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu

"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a
child."
-Cicero
"Oh age! oh letters! It is a joy to be alive!...Woe to you, barbarians!"
-Ulrich von Hutten, 1518, Poet Laureate of the German Empire

Thu Mar 14 22:47:46 1996
Subject: 0478 Why do we age?

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:39:12 +1100

Peggy asked: Why do we age? What is it that alchemists do that stops ageing?

The fact is, we don't age!! Only our physical bodies.
The Inner Self is eternally youthful.
The human Spirit starts from the Spiritual Realm (Paradise) as only a
spirit germ (spark) that has to develop from an unconscious state to Self
-consciousness. The experiences during various earthlives help him to
achieve that. How many times he has to "incarnate" (take up the flesh =
body) depends on the spiritual state of development, on the strength of his
consciousness. Once he has reached his goal, and has freed himself from all
guilt, the re-incarnations on earth stop, and he can ascent (going home to
Paradise) as a Self-conscious "personality".

I just like to add that the coming to earth prerequisites PROCREATION -
INCARNATION - BIRTH. Having descended as far as the ETHEREAL world, through
the Animistic Realm, which lies below Paradise, with Olympus, Walhalla its
peak, where we were given our first COAT, going down, (remember the 3 gifts
of the fairies? In this state of being we are called a human SOUL) , there,
on the edge of the gross material world, still in the beyond, we have to
wait for our earthly parents to couple (PROCREATE), then half way through
pregnancy we INCARNATE. At this stage our earthly mother can feel the first
movements. Then, 4 month down the track our mother gives BIRTH, and voila,
here we are in flesh and blood.

With this I wanted to demonstrate that we are not the body. We take up the
body AS A TOOL for a short while, together with its earthly intellect, to
add on consciousness by experience. This would have been the normal, natural
way of development. The tragic is that with our earthly intellect, by
suppressing the INNER VOICE, always wanting to know better, we distort
heavenly concepts. We misunderstand, we misconceive, we misinterpret, we
have gone astray, we parted from the WAY (Tao). But this is another story...
---
Petra Christiane Gottlieb
petrag@iaccess.com.au
---
OHNE LIEBE KEINE KUNST! (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!

Fri Mar 15 09:36:29 1996
Subject: 0479 White Powder, Nutrition & Mind.

Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:55:50 -0500
C.A. Bracamonte (Charlie)

What a great information provided by Patrick in 0466 "Why Do We
Age?". Also there have been great contributions by many other
friends. Thanks for all your contributions. They are very
enlightening. To the theme about health and longevity, related
with Alchemy, I want to contribute the following information.

In a book about Alchemy that I found recently, the author is
citing Nicolas Flamel himself making a description of the changes
in the material he used for his first successful transmutation -
at noon on January 17, probably 1383 or 1384 - specially the
changes in density and color of the material. And so, Flamel
describes how the material goes to be a black powder, then gray
and finally white. Then he tells how he took a half pound of lead
and, after processing it to the point of melting, he joined some
of the white powder with the melted lead and obtained a material
that he describes as gold. Then he continues saying how he took the
rest of the white powder and, after processing it again, changed to
a yellow color, then orange and finally reddish: what he calls
The Secret Elixir.

*Do anyone of you friends have more information about the
differences in state of both materials, white and reddish?

It is very interesting to note the similarities in what Flamel is
describing as a process done by himself toward the end of 14th
century and the process described by modern researchers. For example:
when Mr. David Hudson describes his process to obtain the white
powder, he is talking about the same changes in densities and colors
going through black powder, then gray and finally white. And he talks
about this material as probably being the same than ancient alchemists
were looking for: "That because of the interactions with DNA, it is
the cure for all illnesses known to man. If you stand in its presence
it protects you, you don't age and live forever." However, Mr. Hudson
doesn't talk about any reddish material, what Flamel calls the Red
Elixir, after the white.

*Does anybody of you friends know more about it?

When Mr. Hudson explains how they discovered that we have the special
elements in our body - mainly rhodium and iridium - and that they
occur naturally in the body, he also says that we are going deficient
in these elements, because they are damaged by another 4 elements,
especially the nitrous oxide from the air we breath; but that gold is
not damaged by these 4 elements. So, if we suppossedly ingest the
white powder gold, it will stay there without decaying.

He also says that we can increase the rhodium and iridium in our body
by several ways, including some nutritional and mental aspects.

I myself have been dedicated for more than 25 years to the study of
mental aspects, especially hypnosis, looking for the clues and keys
for the Mind-Body connection. As a result I have now integrated a
system called "Quantum-ISCOM"; a board-system (a tool) called "The
Quantum Pyramid" and a specially designed and equipped place called
"Virtual Hypnosuite" for relaxation and visualization, meditation,
hypnotherapy and infokinetics.

As a practicing hypnotherapist I have studied and used hypnosis, as
the tool par excellence, to access the subconscious and elicit the
relationship of mind and body deep down; even to what could be the
molecular, genetic level and have been privileged to observe the
wonderful mind-body connection at work. I think that we are starting
to understand how the knowledge and information coming out of the
different fields of modern science and the knowledge and information
conserved through esoteric and mystical traditions, all converge
toward the true knowledge of that amazing integrated result called
"Modern Human".

I have studied and practiced esoterism, misticism and also studied
religions and ancient cultures, especially mesopotamian and sumerian.
As we know, Alchemy is traditionally traced back to the person of
Hermes (Greek) and Thoth (Egyptian); the two of them being the same
personage. But then Thoth - the egyptian god of magical powers -
being the same figure than the sumerian Nin.Gish.Zi.Da ("Lord of the
Artifact of Life"). Also we can trace it back to the hebrew figure of
Enoch, with his corresponding sumerian personage, Adapa.

Alchemical tradition also passes through the Arab alchemists - being
the word alchemy of arab origin - and also through the Hebrew
esoteric Kabbalah; with these cultures also tracing some of their
roots to sumerian origin. It is also interesting that you can also
find tales of vital materials related with well being and longevity,
so as stories about the searchs for them in ancient history; along
with references to the use and utilization of gold and references to
the "food of the gods". It seems that when we trace everything that
we now have in all areas of culture and history, everything can be
traced back to ancient sumer.

Here I want to bring some information from another sources in the
nutritional field.

There is an audio-tape circulating in wich a medical doctor, a 1991
nominee for the Nobel Prize in Medicine, explains how deficiencies
of minerals in the body can end in serious illnesses and conditions
that he describes in the tape and that he says could be prevented and
even cured with the proper supplementation of the needed minerals.
However he also warns that minerals are no more in the foods we eat,
because they are no more in the soils where crops are grown and,
therefore, plants can not produce them. He also says that the
traditional mineral supplements are not effective, because they come
mostly from metallic sources not bioavailable in a great amount. Then
he explains that the best form for mineral supplementation is the
colloidal form.

The curious and probably "synchronistic" aspect of all this is that
in the description of the 70 minerals in the colloidal form, there are
9 of the 11 elements that Mr. Hudson mentions in the description of
his process; including rhodium, iridium and gold.

I really think that when people and proffessionals alike, talk about
the extraordinary and "magical" results from the use of these modern
supplements, it is because such results are due to something else
beyond the simple chemical and physical aspects of the materials, that
can go even deeper to reasons that we actually don't finish to
understand; but that probably our ancient mentors and teachers knew.

Curious and synchronistic indeed is that when the medical doctor tells
about the sources for the materials used in the colloidal compound, he
is talking about the same areas of extraction than Mr. Hudson does.

I myself and several other friends, have been tryng these new colloids
for a few days and can say that there is a marked difference at both
the physical and mental levels. We are going to continue using them for
the recommended 3 months period and then we will use our own theory and
technique to "charge" the elements in the body and we'll see what
happens. Certainly we have a lot of expectations and I hope to be
reporting to this Forum about development of things.

With my best wishes for your continuous improvement and development
and with sincere thanks for all of you, that make possible this
wonderful way of communication between birds of the same flock.

Yours

C.A. Bracamonte (Charlie)
(iscom@interlas.com)

Fri Mar 15 09:38:23 1996
Subject: 0780 Why we age

From: Michel Martineau
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:53:58 -0500

>> >The human body is created , made and constructed perfectly, We must think perfectly,

if we do not do so, the master gland, in the head, close. And when we have an emotion producing adrenalin, the adrenalin turn poison, and slowly we kill ourselves, the most often we think negatively, the faster we age. The most common symtom is the backacke, a pain in the bottom, the middle and the neck, briefly all the psychosomatic deseases.

The body is like the brakes in a car, each time you have a negative thought, you push the brakes, more often you brake, faster they wear out. The science of alchemy use and transform those thoughts to materialise goals, and we live happilly...

GBYou
jhs

Fri Mar 15 09:39:32 1996
Subject: 0481 Dry-way/ Wet-way

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 14 Mar 96 19:30:15 EST

Rawn asked me:
>Your latest posts have helped immensely. They have seeded many thoughts and
questions, one of which I will ask here: Would you please define "Wet-way" and
"Dry-way"?<

Dear Rawn,
The alchemists describe different ways to arrive at the philosopher's stone. At
this point I would not like to come to speak on different remote matters,
likewise not on different variants within single processes. For according to the
chosen original substance the way to the stone differently proceeds.
Nevertheless mutualities of all processes can be crystalized. If one knows these
mutualities, so the differences can be better understood. All processes can be
divided in two successive sections: the preparatory work and the rework.

In the preparatory work the ingredients of the rework are prepared from the
different source materials. In the preparatory work reaction steps appear, in
them is worked with solid as well as liquid substances. Dry as well as wet steps
are characteristical for almost all these processes. As main product the
philosophical mercury will be received. This appears in two different forms:

1. It can be received in the form of a liquid after acuation of the spirit of
philosophical wine.

With the liquid philosopher's mercury, accordingly prepared metals now are led
back to their first matter. Gold as the noblest of all metals was often used to
it. One took off the tincture of the gold and received the gold sulfur in alive
form. This sulfur along with the mercury are cooked to the philosopher's stone
in the rework. Because in this way predominantly is distilled regarding
processes, one speaks of the wet way.

There is a method in this way, which gets along completely without gold. The
philosophical sulphur is isolated from another matter and is processed so, that
it can replace the sulphur of gold. Some alchemists even maintain, that this
philosophical gold in its tincture i.e. power exceeds the ordinary gold by far.
The philosopher's stone prepared from it should accordingly unfold special
strong effects.

2. The philosophical mercury can be received as a sublimate. This sublimate -
often also named fire salt - is solid. While the wet way always includes the
preparation of the spirit of philosophical wine, this does not have to be the
case in the dry way. There are methods, which result in the fire salt without
preparation of the philosophical wine. A fire salt can also be gained however
from the philosophical wine. Thus both ways intersect.

Because in the dry way the minerals and metals are directly treated with the
fire salt in the crucible and are predominantly sublimated regarding processes,
one speaks of the dry way.

Just as in the dry way also in the wet way it can be worked with or without
ordinary gold.

The both ways differ in many points, though they also show important
mutualities. The dry way is also called the short way, since one receives the
philosopher's stone after shorter time. In contrast the wet way is also called
the long way. The wet way counts as the much more distinguished, but also
unequally more difficult and more lengthy way. The stone produced according to
the wet way however should considerably be more effective than the other.

An author of the 18th century has very fittingly described the differences
between both ways, and so I would like to cite him. The passage is taken out of
the book "The true old natural way of Hermes Trismegistus, or: Mystery how to
prepare the great universal tincture on men and metals without glasses.
Published from a genuine Freemason I. C. H., Leipzig 1782". As far as I know
this text has been passed on only as German handwriting, to which no foreign
translation exists:

>The philosophers remember two ways in their writings, through which one can get
to the tincture. They name the one way the dry one and the other one the wet
way. One may however work for the tincture in a way, in which one wants, so
initially no difference is in the same, in that one must operate in both through
the damp and dry. They however differ or have their various designation thus,
that by the tincture prepared following the dry way the gold is opened as by a
dry powder in the crucible and is brought in a plusquamperfect or tinctural
status. On the contrary in the wet way the gold must be opened by our resolved
philosophical mercury, and must arrive to the tinctural status by reversal of
the elements.<

Since there are many variants within both ways, more detailed statements can be
hardly made. For which may be right as statement in one process, would fully
lead astray in an other process. The quotation originates from an author, who
has evidently processed ordinary gold. Other authors emphasize, that the one
fails, who thinks the philosopher's stone would be prepared from gold.

If one knows, that there are different ways, so one must not let confuse himself
through such contradictory remarks. One should try to find out, why an author
has pursued a specific way. If one consults the literature of other authors, so
one must very exactly explore, whether they have followed the same way or have
worked with completely other substances.

Lapis

Fri Mar 15 09:40:19 1996
Subject: 0482 Hands and Alchemical Symbols

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:00:23 +1100

Claire, I believe I have seen this seal as one of the emblems of Kessinger
Publishing . Email: rak@netrix.net. Their home page:
http://www.digisys.net/kessinger/. I am sure they can tell you which text it is.

Best wishes
Petra

Fri Mar 15 09:44:36 1996
Subject: 0483 FRENCH: Un Adepte ? -Reply

From: Michel Martineau
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 22:18:04 -0500

>At 04:19 PM 3/3/96 +0000, you wrote:
>>From: Gilbert Arnold
>>Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 15:03:28 -0500
>>
>>
>>Cher Monsieur Michel Martineau,
>>
>>Meme si j'ai accompli les travaux cites ci-dessous,
>>
>>>Alors dites-moi, EN TERMES PRATIQUES, qu'avez a offrir a un praticien
>>>qui a deja fait la plupart des travaux decrits dans le Char Triomphal et le
>>>dernier Testament ? Glaser et Glauber ? Avez vous prepare avec succes
>>>le circule mineur d'Urbiger ?
>>>
>>REPONSE:
>> Tout disciple qui a un maitre, n'a pas l'esclavage, mais l'exemple.
>
>La fin des travaux est la maitrise de la neuvieme sphere, l'oeuvre au Rouge, La Voie Seche.
>
>Je t'aime et je te beni, Salut
>
>Michel Martineau.

SUITE: j'aimerais d'autres questions Gilbert...car je n'ai re�u aucune reponse depuis...

Fri Mar 15 09:44:51 1996
Subject: 0484 Dubuis/Frater Albertus

From: Russ House
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:19:07 -0500

Dear Lapis,

In regard to Dubuis' familiarity with the works on 'philosophical mercury'
per the methods of Albertus, it does make sense, as you suggest, that
Pancaldi may be some part of the link. Also, do not rule out access to the
lineage of von Bernus.

Jean seems aware of many of the developments of Albertus, and in fact, some
have supposed the courses of P.O.N. written by Dubuis to be a derivation
from the works of Albertus. There are actually very few pieces which
overlap... The works on water/archaeus do derive in part from investigations
from Albertus' curriculum,a few things in the plant work and in the alkahest
of sulphur come to mind. The rest is not too similar to Albertus.

The work on acetates owes more, I suspect, to the writings of Becker,
Weidenfeld and Quercetanus (particularly the latter) than to Albertus. Mr.
Dubuis does not agree on some significant points with the methods of
Albertus on acetates. I will say that one point of difference is that
Dubuis feels strongly that the acetate, once prepared, needs to be digested
in spirits of wine, such continuing until all of the free acetic acid is
converted to esters and removed. It is the opinion of Mr. Dubuis, that the
acetic acid, if remaining, is a 'fixing' agent, and prohibits the transfer
of energy during the process.

Mr. Dubuis and I also disagree (in a very good natured way) about some of
the points in the acetate work, and yet we have to agree that the proof is
in the cooking, and not in our beliefs. I hope to be able to make some more
tests in the future on this work. I see an almost infinite number of paths
that open after one has made the initial distillation.

Regards,

Russ House

Sat Mar 16 10:33:42 1996
Subject: 0485 Dry-Way/Wet-Way

From: Jose B. Escada Jr.
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:00:24 +0300

Dear Lapis,

Thanks a lot for the clear explanation about the ways
in Alchemy!

Does the dry way, which makes use of the crucible and
solid substances, also requires the use of high
temperatures? Fulcanelli suggests that the short way
needs temperatures near the metal fusion point and
the progress can not be observed by the alchemist
as the wet way permits.

Can you clarify this point to us? Thanks!

Jose E.
(escada@dgi.inpe.br)

Sat Mar 16 10:35:57 1996
Subject: 0486 representations of hands with alchemical symbols

From: Maury
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 17:22:05 -0500

Claire Sherman wrote:

>>Can anyone tell me about alchemical texts with illustrations of hands with
alchemical symbols?<<

What follows is an alchemical text that accompanies an illustration of a hand
with several symbols inscribed on it. The text is purported to be written in
1667 and titled: "The Hand of the Philosophers." I have seen an original
illumination of this illustration in a manuscript at the Beinecke Rare Book
Library at Yale University. It is part of the Mellon Collection from which
the later illustration was drawn. The Addendum is my own addition taken from
another treatise. I'm sure the old masters would approve.

Maury

*

"The Hand of the Philosophers"

This is the Hand of the Philosophers with their dear secret signs, with which
the old sages united with each other and took oaths. Nobody can understand
this Hand with its secret signs, unless he becomes first a juror of the
philosophers, and has loyally served them in the Art Alchemia. Consequently,
those who have not this Hand and do not understand its secret signs, nor have
taken the oath of loyalty, are bastards in this Art. They do not possess the
philosopher's treasure. That is why I advise all those who do not possess
the secrets of the Hand not to start working in the alchemical Art, nor to
believe books or writings, since they will all only be cheated in the secrets
of the Hand. Therefore, everybody had better be careful.

In this Hand is locked the secret of the philosophers, that is, of the seed
and the earth, as will be told later.

Now then, I will teach my child and describe the secret, hidden matter of the
wise philosophers and masters of the true Art Alchemia. Nobody can use it
unless he take the oath and swear not to divulge the Art and secrets and
hidden signs of the sages, except he finds that it would be a good placement.
In that case, he should also request the oath that that man should not use
the Art except for the salvation of his soul. Only then can he be given the
secret signs of the philosophers or sages, with their hidden signs and
meanings.

1. THE THUMB
First look at the thumb on which stands the CROWN next to the moon, one
quarter old. By this is meant saltpetre. For just as the thumb vigorously
finishes off the hand, saltpetre does in the Art Alchemia, for he is the King
and Lord of all salts. He is the mill through which everything must be
ground.

2. THE INDEX
The second sign and secret of the philosophers is the STAR with its six
points, standing above the foremost finger next to the thumb. It is compared
to Roman Vitriolo, because no work that is to be perfect can be completed
without vitriol; for it is the greatest and strongest salt after saltpetre.

3. THE MIDDLE FINGER
The third sign of the philosopher's Hand is the SUN, standing above the third
finger. By it, Sal Ammoniacum is designated, for apart from saltpetre and
vitriol, no thing more powerful is found than S . That is why it is the
third secret.

4. THE RING FINGER
The fourth sign of the philosophers is the LANTERN, standing above the fourth
finger of the Hand, whereby Alumen Roche is indicated; for without alum, no
perfect work can be accomplished, because it is required for the Red and the
White. It has an astonishing nature and the most subtle Spiritus .

5. THE LITTLE FINGER
The fifth secret and sign is the KEY of the philosophers, standing above the
little finger. Simultaneously, it is the lock of the Hand. That is why the
key is standing on it. By it, common salt is designated, for salt is the Key
in this Art.

6. THE MIDDLE OF THE HAND
The sixth secret sign is the FISH. It stands in the middle of the Hand and
signifies Mercurius, for without Mercurius, or the fish, nothing can be done.
He is the beginning, the middle and the end, and he is the priest who must
marry everything. And he is the male and the seed; he is the water out of
which all metals have originated; and he is the principal of all Arts, and
the greatest of all secrets.

7. THE PALM
The seventh sign of the philosophers is FIRE. By this Sulphur is indicated.
It is the earth and beginning of all metals. It is the female who brings
forth the fruit. For no seed can grow unless it be first thrown into fertile
soil. Then beautiful fruit will come from it. Thus it also happens that
when a pure Mercury is joined to a pure Sulphur, it brings forth pure fruit.
Thus, they are man and woman, father and mother, fire and water, seed and
earth. This is sufficient about the seven secret signs of the philosophers.
He who understands well this Hand and its signs, and can work with it, will
derive joy from it.

*

Keep thou these secrets and for me pray,
Looke that you use them to God's pleasure;
Do good wyth them what ever thou may,
For tyme thou shalt thys lyfe endure,
That after thy endyng thou may be sure
In Hevyn for to rewardyd be,
Whych God graunt both to thee and me.

Sat Mar 16 10:37:59 1996
Subject: 0487 The hand of the philosophers

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 15 Mar 96 19:56:20 EST

Claire Sherman asked:
>Can anyone tell me about alchemical texts with illustrations of hands with
alchemical symbols?<

Up to now an important alchemical text was not yet called to this theme: "The
hand of the philosophers" by Johann Isaacus Hollandus. Some copper engraves are
appended to the text, of which the first is an upright right hand. This shows to
the viewer with the palm. On each fingertip as well as on the palm following
symbols are found:

Thumb: Crown and increasing moon in the first quarter
Index finger: hexagonal star
Middle finger: Sun
Ring finger: Lantern
Little finger: Key
Palm: A fish standing on four diagonally put crosses within a sea of flames

The copper engraving is found in (German edition): "Collection of different
proven chemical writings of Johann Isaac Hollandus, Vienna, 1773. The hand of
the philosophers is in the beginning of the extensive collection.

The text begins with the following sentences:
"This is the hand of the philosophers with their dear secret signs, with which
hand the old sages have joined and sworn each other. Nobody can understand this
hand with their secret signs, unless he becomes before a juror of the
philosophers, and has loyally served them in the art alchemy. Therefore then,
who has not this hand and does not understood their secret signs, nor is loyally
sworn with it, such are bastards in this art. They will not own the treasure of
the philosophers..."

Lapis

Sun Mar 17 13:20:14 1996
Subject: 0488 representations of hands with alchemical symbols

Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 16:15:20 -0500
From: Gilbert Arnold

-Reply

Some of the works of Basil Valentine, when published, include an
illustration of a medallion of symbols, including hands.

Blessings,

Gilbert

Sun Mar 17 13:22:36 1996
Subject: 0489 representations of hands with alchemical symbols

From: Diane Munoz
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 00:34:33 -0800

>From: Claire Sherman wrote-->
>Can anyone tell me about alchemical texts with illustrations of hands with
>alchemical symbols?

I'm a little late in responding to this... so I don't know if anyone has
mentioned Manly Hall's _Secret Teachings of All Ages_. It has many
illustrations of this particular icon with explanations.

Diane

Mon Mar 18 10:02:29 1996
Subject: 0490 Wet-way/Dry-way

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 17 Mar 96 19:08:26 EST

Dear Jose,

you asked:
>Does the dry way, which makes use of the crucible and solid substances, also
requires the use of high temperatures? Fulcanelli suggests that the short way
needs temperatures near the metal fusion point and the progress can not be
observed by the alchemist as the wet way permits.<

The first part of your question is to be answered with yes. The dry way requires
high temperatures. The basis of this way is the preparation of a sublimate with
the characteristics of an universal solvent. This sublimate is often called
Columba Dianae (The pigeon of the Diana). The first steps of this process
require a red-hot fire. The temperature reaches about 1000 degrees Celsius.
According to the process still higher temperatures can be necessary.

The remark of Fulcanelli only is correct in a limited way. I do not know
exactly, which process Fulcanelli had in mind writing this sentence. According
to Philaletha there processes should be in the dry way, which very soon directly
lead to a transmuting powder. In this sense the statement of Fulcanelli is
correct.

If one starts from the mentioned sublimate as solvent, so a further way is open.
The sublimate can be transformed in a liquid. This liquid along with gold lime
is brought through the colors. In other words: The rework corresponds to the
rework in the wet way, and so the progress of the work can be just as observed
by the alchemist. Then the difference between the wet and dry way exists only in
the preparatory work. The way to the real philosophical mercury is different,
the further agrees.

Lapis

Mon Mar 18 22:05:00 1996
Subject: 0491 M.A. Atwood

I have wondered, as I'm sure many others who know the story of Mary South
and her father, why they suddenly, in one night, destroyed a life time of
work. Opinions have tended to either they, all-of-a-sudden, realized they
were releasing secrets which might be dangerous (the occult danger
concept), or the guess put forth by Mr. Wilmshurst - that they,
all-of-a-sudden, realized that by making a public expositon, they were
defiling the sanctity of the material.

I find neither opinion satisfactory. The class of intellect and
sophistication demonstrated by the Souths was too refined and too complete
to substantiate these theories. There was a greater realization - a new
idea which, through all their work in the esoteric field, they had not
previously encountered - until that fateful evening.

In my opinion, that new revelation was, in what certain writers have
termed, the "supersession of material." In other words, the Souths became
aware, all-of-a-sudden, from some source, that their exposition of
material, Alchemy through the previous four or five hundred years, was
obsolete. And, as such, to contnue on in this project, would be an
impediment to the transmission of material coming in the next phase of
humanity. Alchemy, as they knew it, had done its job and was phased out as
a mode of transmission. From that time on, it would serve as nothing more
than an archaeological relic, the stuff of scholarly inquiry, leading to
more books and words, but containing no spiritually vital ideas. This
realization, rather than any occult danger or sanctity concerns, would have
come as an enormous shock to the authors - and it must have been a bitter
test, but one I feel they met and surpassed with the keenness and grace of
the deep intelligence they obviously possessed.

Sincerely,

Terry Williams

Tue Mar 19 16:46:19 1996
Subject: 0492 M.A. Atwood

From: Logodox
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 03:59:33 -0600

[In my opinion, that new revelation was, in what certain writers have
termed, the "supersession of material." In other words, the Souths became
aware, all-of-a-sudden, from some source, that their exposition of
material, Alchemy through the previous four or five hundred years, was
obsolete.]

Really. Thanx for this enlightening view ! Could this author be so kind as to
elucidate the "new phase" that has happened since 1851 ?

This post seems so completely incongruent as to test the limits of credulity.

Some would view man's technical advancement as the new age of knowledge. As
stated in the book, man was in a deep blight and sinking deeper into the
abyss of ignorance even in those days.

Please read the book, especially the section(s) dealing with modern the
modern scientific view of the "circumference" of things instead of the inner
causes.

Agreed as to the very high caliber of the Souths. Think that people of that
caliber are not devious as to their motives. For those who think there is
no danger in things "of the spirit", reflect on the zeitgeist in Germany
from 1930'ish thru 1945. Anyone naive enough to think Hitler and a few
cronies pulled a coup and away they went. AU Contraire ! This was a very
terrible case of negative "spirtual fermentation", mass-hysteria,fear, etc.

Is there no danger in subtle spiritual influences ?

Best,

logodox@sound.net

Tue Mar 19 19:59:15 1996
Subject: 0493 M.A. Atwood

From: Maury
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 12:06:05 -0500

On Mar 19, 1996, Terry Williams wrote:

>>...the Souths became aware, all-of-a-sudden, from some source, that their
exposition of material, Alchemy through the previous four or five hundred
years, was obsolete. And, as such, to contnue on in this project, would be
an impediment to the transmission of material coming in the next phase of
humanity. Alchemy, as they knew it, had done its job and was phased out as a
mode of transmission. From that time on, it would serve as nothing more than
an archaeological relic, the stuff of scholarly inquiry, leading to more
books and words, but containing no spiritually vital ideas...<<

This post brings up some interesting points which I would like to comment on
and at the risk of taking a different position than some others have
expressed on this Forum in the past about the Souths.

In a general way I agree with the above statement. Alchemistic literature
began to degenerate in the 17th century and it practically came to an end in
the 18th century. With a few exceptions, the treatises became more and more
worthless in the age of enlightenment. Though the literature of alchemy
ceased in a direct form, alchemistic ideas continued to produce after
effects, f.i., the second part of Goethe's "Faust," Spitteler's "Prometheus &
Epimetheus," and Meyrinck's "The Golem," and "The Green Face," to name a few.
Indeed, Meyrinck translated a treatise thought to be attributed to Thomas
Aquinas. In his introduction to this translation, Meyrinck describes his own
alchemistic experiences with a great deal of involuntary humor. It is not a
very savory story, but he was really convinced that he was on the way to
making gold. He bought an old privy and extracted the lowest layer of its
contents and put it into a retort. He then sealed the unappetizing mixture
hermetically, according to the prescriptions of the alchemists. Eventually
the cover flew off in his face, but there was a yellow substance in the
retort and he was convinced that this was a pre-stage of gold. This is quite
in the medieval style.

The touching story of Mrs. Atwood, who maiden name was Mary Ann South, is a
still more medieval story. Let me review the facts as I know them, with
apologies for restating what others may already know, before coming to my
point. Please feel free to correct or add to my information. My
understanding is that she was the daughter of an English country gentleman,
and lived with her father for many years at his country estate. He had a
wonderful library, which contained many alchemical treatises. She was
evidently extremely intelligent and very well read. I do not know what
experiments they undertook together, but they both read a great many of the
old Latin texts. This is absolutely in the style of the old philosophers, in
antiquity and the Middle Ages; this father and daughter were a pair, such as
Zosimos and Theosebeia, Flamel and Peronelle, and many others. The father
played the role of the old wise man and Miss South was the daughter-pupil
acquiring wisdom.

After twelve years' study she had gained a deeper insight, and her father
proposed that they each should write a book and publish the secrets which
they had discovered. As they did not want to influence each other, they
retired to separate wings of the great house and wrote separately. She
produced an intellectual and learned work, whereas he wrote in verse. Her
volume was finished first, and she handed a thick manuscript to her father.
As he had not yet finished, they decided to publish her book. This was done
in 1850 but when nearly 100 volumes were in the hands of the booksellers, the
old man suddenly became afraid that they had betrayed the mysteries. This is
the old fear of the alchemists, they may say a little, let fall a few hints,
but on no account may they say too much, or they will be cursed by God and
cast into hell. Old South was caught by his fear in a completely medieval
way, so he persuaded his daughter to withdraw the edition and, as far as
possible, they bought back the volumes already distributed. They then
arranged an auto-da-fe, and burnt all the books; the old man topping the pile
with his manuscript. Only about a dozen of his verses have been preserved,
which were quoted by his daughter, but judging by these, the manuscript was
no great loss. She did not go on writing after this; and, after the death of
her father, her inspiration failed completely. In her despair she married a
parson, Mr. Atwood, but she neglected his parish and went on reading. She
did not succeed, however, in becoming an Annie Besant or a Madame Blavatsky,
though she lived to the age of 93 and died in 1910.

As I understand it, a few copies of book had escaped the fire, and in 1918 a
friend of alchemy had it printed again, and it was reprinted in 1922. I have
read the book [*A Suggestive Inquiry into the Hermetic Mysteries*], and I saw
no particular reason why it should have been either burnt or preserved from
oblivion. It is by no means unintelligent but she certainly does not betray
any mysteries. It is really, in common with most alchemistic treatises, an
attempt to say what the author does not know; and that is always interesting,
because things come out which are unknown to the writer. It is extremely
intuitive and emotional, and it was written by an overflowing unconscious.

Therefore, from my perspective, whether they destroyed their manuscripts
because they "realized they were releasing secrets which might be
dangerous..., or... that they... realized that by making a public expositon,
they were defiling the sanctity of the material," as Terry Williams writes,
or, as he further conjectures in the passage I quoted from his post above,
that the Souths realized that "alchemy had done its job;" in either case,
these explanations are of a medieval style, just as her book is a thoroughly
medieval production garnished with would-be theosophical explanations as a
sop to the syncretism of the new age. I'm aware that this opinion may not be
popular among some of the members of this Forum. Others may reflect on her
book, and the ensuing events, and draw a different conclusion based on their
own experiences of alchemistic literature.

Maury

Tue Mar 19 20:02:50 1996
Subject: 0493 M.A. Atwood

From: Maury
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 12:06:05 -0500

On Mar 19, 1996, Terry Williams wrote:

>>...the Souths became aware, all-of-a-sudden, from some source, that their
exposition of material, Alchemy through the previous four or five hundred
years, was obsolete. And, as such, to contnue on in this project, would be
an impediment to the transmission of material coming in the next phase of
humanity. Alchemy, as they knew it, had done its job and was phased out as a
mode of transmission. From that time on, it would serve as nothing more than
an archaeological relic, the stuff of scholarly inquiry, leading to more
books and words, but containing no spiritually vital ideas...<<

This post brings up some interesting points which I would like to comment on
and at the risk of taking a different position than some others have
expressed on this Forum in the past about the Souths.

In a general way I agree with the above statement. Alchemistic literature
began to degenerate in the 17th century and it practically came to an end in
the 18th century. With a few exceptions, the treatises became more and more
worthless in the age of enlightenment. Though the literature of alchemy
ceased in a direct form, alchemistic ideas continued to produce after
effects, f.i., the second part of Goethe's "Faust," Spitteler's "Prometheus &
Epimetheus," and Meyrinck's "The Golem," and "The Green Face," to name a few.
Indeed, Meyrinck translated a treatise thought to be attributed to Thomas
Aquinas. In his introduction to this translation, Meyrinck describes his own
alchemistic experiences with a great deal of involuntary humor. It is not a
very savory story, but he was really convinced that he was on the way to
making gold. He bought an old privy and extracted the lowest layer of its
contents and put it into a retort. He then sealed the unappetizing mixture
hermetically, according to the prescriptions of the alchemists. Eventually
the cover flew off in his face, but there was a yellow substance in the
retort and he was convinced that this was a pre-stage of gold. This is quite
in the medieval style.

The touching story of Mrs. Atwood, who maiden name was Mary Ann South, is a
still more medieval story. Let me review the facts as I know them, with
apologies for restating what others may already know, before coming to my
point. Please feel free to correct or add to my information. My
understanding is that she was the daughter of an English country gentleman,
and lived with her father for many years at his country estate. He had a
wonderful library, which contained many alchemical treatises. She was
evidently extremely intelligent and very well read. I do not know what
experiments they undertook together, but they both read a great many of the
old Latin texts. This is absolutely in the style of the old philosophers, in
antiquity and the Middle Ages; this father and daughter were a pair, such as
Zosimos and Theosebeia, Flamel and Peronelle, and many others. The father
played the role of the old wise man and Miss South was the daughter-pupil
acquiring wisdom.

After twelve years' study she had gained a deeper insight, and her father
proposed that they each should write a book and publish the secrets which
they had discovered. As they did not want to influence each other, they
retired to separate wings of the great house and wrote separately. She
produced an intellectual and learned work, whereas he wrote in verse. Her
volume was finished first, and she handed a thick manuscript to her father.
As he had not yet finished, they decided to publish her book. This was done
in 1850 but when nearly 100 volumes were in the hands of the booksellers, the
old man suddenly became afraid that they had betrayed the mysteries. This is
the old fear of the alchemists, they may say a little, let fall a few hints,
but on no account may they say too much, or they will be cursed by God and
cast into hell. Old South was caught by his fear in a completely medieval
way, so he persuaded his daughter to withdraw the edition and, as far as
possible, they bought back the volumes already distributed. They then
arranged an auto-da-fe, and burnt all the books; the old man topping the pile
with his manuscript. Only about a dozen of his verses have been preserved,
which were quoted by his daughter, but judging by these, the manuscript was
no great loss. She did not go on writing after this; and, after the death of
her father, her inspiration failed completely. In her despair she married a
parson, Mr. Atwood, but she neglected his parish and went on reading. She
did not succeed, however, in becoming an Annie Besant or a Madame Blavatsky,
though she lived to the age of 93 and died in 1910.

As I understand it, a few copies of book had escaped the fire, and in 1918 a
friend of alchemy had it printed again, and it was reprinted in 1922. I have
read the book [*A Suggestive Inquiry into the Hermetic Mysteries*], and I saw
no particular reason why it should have been either burnt or preserved from
oblivion. It is by no means unintelligent but she certainly does not betray
any mysteries. It is really, in common with most alchemistic treatises, an
attempt to say what the author does not know; and that is always interesting,
because things come out which are unknown to the writer. It is extremely
intuitive and emotional, and it was written by an overflowing unconscious.

Therefore, from my perspective, whether they destroyed their manuscripts
because they "realized they were releasing secrets which might be
dangerous..., or... that they... realized that by making a public expositon,
they were defiling the sanctity of the material," as Terry Williams writes,
or, as he further conjectures in the passage I quoted from his post above,
that the Souths realized that "alchemy had done its job;" in either case,
these explanations are of a medieval style, just as her book is a thoroughly
medieval production garnished with would-be theosophical explanations as a
sop to the syncretism of the new age. I'm aware that this opinion may not be
popular among some of the members of this Forum. Others may reflect on her
book, and the ensuing events, and draw a different conclusion based on their
own experiences of alchemistic literature.

Maury

Wed Mar 20 20:26:39 1996
Subject: 0494 M.A. Atwood

From: Diane Munoz
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 09:34:04 -0800

>I have wondered, as I'm sure many others who know the story of Mary South
>and her father, why they suddenly, in one night, destroyed a life time of
>work. Opinions have tended to either they, all-of-a-sudden, realized they
>were releasing secrets which might be dangerous (the occult danger
>concept), or the guess put forth by Mr. Wilmshurst - that they,
>all-of-a-sudden, realized that by making a public expositon, they were
>defiling the sanctity of the material.
>

I'm a little at a disadvantage here, since I've only HEARD of Mary Atwood
and her book...and don't know her story except for what has been told here
on the Forum (good show guys!) So what I'm about to suggest may already be
public understanding....

But isn't it possible that the decision was made FOR the South's in that
throughout the ages this material has been suppressed by those in"
authority". Anytime anything of this nature was made freely public it was
destroyed, as were the schools that taught it, particularly in the Middle
Ages and the Inquisition. Isn't that why most of the alchemical reasonings
were laid down into myth, fairy tale, and art of some sort? And isn't it
why we have secret societies like the masons, rosecrucians etc? So wouldn't
it be possible that she and her father were forced to destroy the material?

Wed Mar 20 20:28:07 1996
Subject: 0495 Lab Work

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 11:23:34 +1000

Is John H. Reid III still on this forum?
If you are, please John, tell us how and if you are still posting some
instruction, like promised, on Lab work.

Cordially,

---
Petra Christiane Gottlieb
petrag@iaccess.com.au
---
OHNE LIEBE KEINE KUNST! (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!

Wed Mar 20 20:29:28 1996
Subject: 0496 M.A. Atwood

From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 12:30 NZST

>We must not forget she and her father were not practical alchemists so I
doubt she embraced any new new concepts and thought her book obselete. The
only real way to find out is some good old fashioned investigation- diary
notes being prime example! She was talking about high or spiritual alchemy
in the book and her concept is hardly new given the amount of public texts
available. Though while the book is a good read, with a somewhat pompus
Waite like style about it it is in reality very disjointed with many given
example not matching the train of the chapter. Langford garstin did a better
job in a much slimmer volume titled `Secret Fire; in the early 1930's and it
is much more a cohesive unit on alchemy. When you quote from many different
manusccripts and try an put them together then you must work to a good plan.
On the modern side of things, Fabricius does the job with about a third of
space. WE must also not forget the `Philosphers Stone' ( a treatise on
spiritual alchemy) by Regardie which was inspired by Atwood and I felt he
did a better job than she did of it. By the way Tom we haven't heard much
from you lately from sunny Brisbane. This post is really down your alley!

Pat zalewski

Wed Mar 20 20:31:04 1996
Subject: 0497 Intellect vs. Spirit

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 17:46:15 +1000

In reference to Logodox' posting

>>For those who think there is no danger in things "of the spirit", reflect
on the Zeitgeist in Germany from 1936-1945<<

I just wanted to clarify that what happened in Germany during those years
has absolutely nothing to do with "spirit" (Geist). It was the misguided,
criminal and devious INTELLECT of a hellish brut at work there, massing
with people of like "mind". But of German "Spirits" like those of Goethe,
Herder, Schiller, Jakob Boehme, Luther, Aquinas, Schopenhauer, Kant,
Fichte, Steiner, Weizsaecker, Heisenberg , etc. etc. there was no trace, no
sign (keine Spur von Geist).

"Spirit" as such, by characteristic, is eternally as pure as pure can be,
and always has been. It's what hangs on spirit in form of thoughtforms
while in the world of matter (through men's freedom of choice) that can
defile it.

So, for those who "think" that there is danger in things "of the spirit",
think again, for the danger comes from the INTELLECT, i.e. in what people
think and aim for, which can be quite contrary to the urgings of their
innermost SPIRIT.

---
Petra Christiane Gottlieb
petrag@iaccess.com.au
---
OHNE LIEBE KEINE KUNST! (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!

Wed Mar 20 20:32:47 1996
Subject: 0498 A Gift For Spring

From: Edward DeVito
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 02:06:50 -0500

"SONG OF YOUTH" - FOR THE VERNAL EQUINOX

O Engine of Life!
Whose wonder in radiant youth
Is poised on the broadening horizon
In nubile bud,
In quivering blade and whisker
And Roaring tumult of foam and spray;
So full of power and promise!

Thy Beauty is exalted!
May we savor and thrill to thee awhile.

O young immortal
In rising sap and greening hill,
and rapture yearning consummation,
Be thee assured thy trust in us.
In joy and in gratitude
We await thine hour of Glory.

By all the Gods that sing,
Filled with the gladness in the Air,
Like the bursting buds of Spring
Where all the land is the freshness of morning,
Of dew, of leaf, of flower,
And Angels lightly pass their way
Wafted on wings of Youth and Joy.

In Nature's perennial smile
That is ever new,
And bird song ever sweet,
And laughter that rings in wood and dell
Is the Joy of Spring Eternal!

Love & Light!

Edward DeVito,
Keeper, SGC

Wed Mar 20 20:33:42 1996
Subject: 0499 The Hand as a Symbol

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 23:38:10 +1000

On behalf of Alec Gathercole

Clair Sherman wrote "What do illustrations of a hand symbolize?

In both sacred languages Hebrew and Sanscrit is the word Manus.
Manus = defines hand, also in Latin.
From manus is derived the title man-kind. Hands are the Divine's gift to
man. It is because of these alone that has enabled man to separate himslef
from the so called dumb animals.
Bcause we can man-age, man-ipulate, man-ufacture, man-ifest and have a
man-ner of function that we have been able to become literate, technical and
industrial we have evolved into the most intellectual of all animated
species. Our nearest competitor in academic qualities is the canine species,
man's best friend.
In all ways physical we are no more perfect than any other animated species.
Anthropology records the progressive intelectual evolution of man. Therefore
we are no longer tied to instinctive attributes alone.
Therefore the alchemical symblol of the hand that handles natures products
indicates that intellect alone will not accomplish the required results. We
need hand for work, prayer and instinctive guidance to keep us in touch with
the Divine Source and natural laws. May our provider continue to grant us
his grace.

Alec (Paracelsian University)
petrag@iaccess.com.au

Wed Mar 20 20:35:13 1996
Subject: 0500 M.A. Atwood

From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 08:55:09 -0600

>From: Maury
>Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 12:06:05 -0500
>As I understand it, a few copies of book had escaped the fire, and in 1918 a
>friend of alchemy had it printed again, and it was reprinted in 1922. I have
>read the book [*A Suggestive Inquiry into the Hermetic Mysteries*], and I saw
>no particular reason why it should have been either burnt or preserved from
>oblivion.

*I thought I'd post this bibliographic entry from the UT online catalogue

AUTHOR: Atwood, Mary Anne, 1817-1910.
TITLE: A suggestive inquiry into the hermetic mystery : with a
dissertation on the more celebrated of the alchemical
philosophers being an attempt towards the recovery of the
ancient experiment of nature / M(ary) A(nne) Atwood.
EDITION: Rev ed., with an introduction by Walter Leslie Wilmshurst.
Also an appendix containing the memorabilia of Mary Anne
Atwood.
PUBLISHED: New York : Arno Press, 1976.
DESCRIPTION: xxv, 597 p. : port. 22 cm.
SERIES: The Occult (New York, 1976- )
NOTES: Reprint of the rev. ed., 1920, published by W. Tait, Belfast.
SUBJECTS: Alchemy
OCLC NUMBER: 2509917

>Therefore, from my perspective, whether they destroyed their manuscripts
>because they "realized they were releasing secrets which might be
>dangerous..., or... that they... realized that by making a public expositon,
>they were defiling the sanctity of the material," as Terry Williams writes,
>or, as he further conjectures in the passagn all of us.
The one who at al >that the Souths realized that "alchemy had done its job;" in either case,
>these explanations are of a medieval style, just as her book is a thoroughly
>medieval production garnished with would-be theosophical explanations as a
>sop to the syncretism of the new age. I'm aware that this opinion may not be
>popular among some of the members of this Forum.

*I'd just like clarification from Maury (and anyone else who wants to jump
in)--do you mean these ideas might not be popular personally to members of
the forum, and the one can assume by implication our contemporaries, or
that such interpretations of the South's actions are unpopular?

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu

"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a
child."
-Cicero
"Oh age! oh letters! It is a joy to be alive!...Woe to you, barbarians!"
-Ulrich von Hutten, 1518, Poet Laureate of the German Empire