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Alchemy Forum 0501-0550From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 501-550.Go to next 50 messages . Back to forum archive. Fri Mar 22 11:21:43 1996 Subject: 0501 Dubuis/Frater Albertus (484) From: Beat Krummenacher Date: 21 Mar 96 16:24:36 EST Dear Russ, you wrote: >Mr. Dubuis does not agree on some significant points with the methods of Albertus on acetates. I will say that one point of difference is that Dubuis feels strongly that the acetate, once prepared, needs to be digested in spirits of wine, such continuing until all of the free acetic acid is converted to esters and removed. It is the opinion of Mr. Dubuis, that the acetic acid, if remaining, is a 'fixing' agent, and prohibits the transfer of energy during the process.< This consideration is interesting. Nevertheless this objection seems to me little to be valid. You may not forget: During the distillation always free acetic acid emerges. The fixing agent is found in the product, whether one has removed or not the free acid before by means of spirit of wine. And why should prevent acetic acid the transfer of energy during the process? >Mr. Dubuis and I also disagree (in a very good natured way) about some of the points in the acetate work, and yet we have to agree that the proof is in the cooking, and not in our beliefs.< With which points of the acetate work does it deal? Regards Lapis Fri Mar 22 11:22:04 1996 Subject: 0502 What is Magic? From: Petra Gottlieb Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 15:12:11 +1000 ON BEHALF OF ALEC GATHERCOLE Magic is simply being able to perform that which was not previously within our recognised capacity of that which we could accomplish. It is also a revelation when able to understand something of which the meaning was obscure. Miracles may not necessarily be great phenomena but rather small increases to our previous expectations of our capacity, more a noumena, a new awareness of that which we are able to put into practice. It is always that new learning, a further evolvement, which will continuously alchemically grow to become another expression of our true self. Of course any noumena we become newly aware of is not new as there is nothing new under the sun. That would be vanity fair. That it is only now obvious to us may make us a little shameful that we didn't make enough effort to prepare ourselves to receive this understanding earlier. This is BINAH sanctified understanding which every revelation comes from. There are many tools we may use to assist us to be magicians. Each is a centre on which to focus our attention which may have been spread to far to be readily refocused on that which requires our full attention. Each revelation is a centre on which to adjust our focus as this focal point is immediately behind our next revelation. There is no conjuring trick involving slight off hand to deceive the eye as that plays no part in genuine magic. It is the inner eye or ear that receives our revelation from and by the grace of Divinity if our focus is correctly adjusted. Are we ready, willing and able? Alec. (Paracelsian University) petrag@iaccess.com.au Fri Mar 22 11:23:53 1996 Subject: 0503 Alchemy Dream From: caeilte Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 15:03:23 -0800 I had a very profound dream. I think it must of had something to do with alchemy. I was in a room at the very top of a tall building. The building was old i.e. brick, wood floors, high ceiling etc. There was a large table in the middle of the room. On the table was a large septr type vase. The vase was large and had a spout. The vase was made of a large emerald that was carved! The window opened and a dove flew in. I was with an old man with a robe and a long white beard. Although I had the dream three or four years ago, it is as clear as if it had just happened in real life!!! What do you think it means if anything? Thanks Fri Mar 22 15:24:56 1996 Subject: 0504 Alchemy Dream From: "MARGARET MARY-THERESA BROWN, SUNY BUFFALO" Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 09:46:23 -0500 (EST) >From: caeilte >Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 15:03:23 -0800 >I had a very profound dream. I don't recall ever having a profound dream. The ones I remember tend to be zany and bizarre. >I think it must of had something to do with >alchemy. I was in a room at the very top of a tall building. The .... >What do you think it means if anything? If you can't say, no one else can. Sometimes dreams don't mean anything at all, or the meaning is in how you felt while dreaming it -- not what you saw. I once had a dream about a kaballistic salad, which I later turned into a poem. At the risk of never being taken seriously as an alchemist or kabalist, here it is... Feel free to add to this. In fact, please do. - Peggy - " One person's gnosis is another's heresy." ***************************************************************** Kaballistic Salad Dream or Ode to an Olive Dreaming fitfully one night, tossing and a turning, When before me stood a dreadful sight that put me in delerium. It was green, and red, and orange too and I was most appalled, To see before me in true form a kaballistic salad. YeeHaYeeHa YeeHaYeeHa YeeHaYeeHa Oh! YeeHaYeeHa YeeHaYeeHa YeeHaYeeHa Oh! To see before me in tru form a kaballistic salad. The eyes they were of onion, the ears of radish slices, A nose of green cucumber, and the ears of carrot diced. But the part I tremble to recall that gave me such a fright was A mouth made from tomato that looked as though it'd bite! YeHaVaHe YeHaVaHe YeHaVaHe Ho! YeHaVaHe YeHaVaHe YeHaVaHe Ho! A mouth made from tomato that looked as though it'd bite! Fri Mar 22 21:17:41 1996 Subject: 0505 prima materia From: George Randall Leake III Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 09:27:02 -0600 It seems this has been broached before, but I was wondering if anyone has ever considered that menstrual blood might be the prima materia? Many creation myths include accounts of a creation goddess forming humans from a mixture of clay or earth and menstrual blood, referred to as bloody clay, or more delicately as red earth. Consider this quote from Barbara G. Walker's The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets: Pliny called menstrual blood "the material substance of generation," capable of forming "a curd, which afterwards in process of time quickeneth and groweth to the form of a body." -G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu "To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child." -Cicero "Oh age! oh letters! It is a joy to be alive!...Woe to you, barbarians!" -Ulrich von Hutten, 1518, Poet Laureate of the German Empire Fri Mar 22 21:20:10 1996 Subject: 0506 What is Magic? From: George Randall Leake III Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:27:48 -0600 >From: Petra Gottlieb >ON BEHALF OF ALEC GATHERCOLE >Alec. (Paracelsian University) wrote--> >Magic is simply being able to perform that which was not previously within >our recognised capacity of that which we could accomplish. *Isn't this too general of a definition? Wouldn't this include all kinds of technology which has nothing to do with magic? What about the difference between low magic and high magic, i.e. is it being performed with the intention of personal gain of some sort or for the union of the soul with the divine? >It is also a >revelation when able to understand something of which the meaning was obscure. *sounds like the definition from the dictionary >Miracles may not necessarily be great phenomena but rather small increases >to our previous expectations of our capacity, more a noumena, a new >awareness of that which we are able to put into practice. *huh? How does this follow? >It is always that new learning, a further evolvement, which will >continuously alchemically grow to become another expression of our true self. *these platitudes seem so general >Of course any noumena we become newly aware of is not new as there is >nothing new under the sun. That would be vanity fair. That it is only now >obvious to us may make us a little shameful that we didn't make enough >effort to prepare ourselves to receive this understanding earlier. This is >BINAH sanctified understanding which every revelation comes from. *this part seems more reasonable >There are many tools we may use to assist us to be magicians. Each is a >centre on which to focus our attention which may have been spread to far to >be readily refocused on that which requires our full attention. Each >revelation is a centre on which to adjust our focus as this focal point is >immediately behind our next revelation. There is no conjuring trick >involving slight off hand to deceive the eye as that plays no part in >genuine magic. >It is the inner eye or ear that receives our revelation from and by the >grace of Divinity if our focus is correctly adjusted. *whew! I was starting to worry there for a moment...all this makes more sense, but to what end one wonders? -G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu "To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child." -Cicero "Oh age! oh letters! It is a joy to be alive!...Woe to you, barbarians!" -Ulrich von Hutten, 1518, Poet Laureate of the German Empire Sat Mar 23 16:54:19 1996 Subject: 0507 prima materia From: al4302 Menstrual blood has many applications is the world of natural magic but it is not the Prima Materia. The clue is given by the Pelican who feeds it's young on it's OWN blood, this implys growth, if you want PM for the wet way, PM that partakes of Mercurial qualitys. If you want PM for the Dry way it must Partake of Salt and does not invole blood in any way. If one has completed the work and wishes to do it again then there is a third which partakes of Sulphur. At the end of the day you do not have much choice it is aa matter of fate. See: Christian at tbe Cross Roads in the Chmyical Wedding on adams site. >It seems this has been broached before, but I was wondering if anyone has >ever considered that menstrual blood might be the prima materia? Many >creation myths include accounts of a creation goddess forming humans from a >mixture of clay or earth and menstrual blood, referred to as bloody clay, >or more delicately as red earth. > >Consider this quote from Barbara G. Walker's The Woman's Encyclopedia of >Myths and Secrets: > >Pliny called menstrual blood "the material substance of >generation," capable of forming "a curd, which afterwards in process >of time quickeneth and groweth to the form of a body." > >-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu Sat Mar 23 16:56:02 1996 Subject: 0508 Dubuis / Frater Albertus From: legnef Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 08:42:30 -0500 Written in a previous message: > >Mr. Dubuis does not agree on some significant points with the methods of > Albertus on acetates. I will say that one point of difference is that Dubuis > feels strongly that the acetate, once prepared, needs to be digested in spirits > of wine, such continuing until all of the free acetic acid is converted to > esters and removed. Please accept this as possible input regarding Albertus/Acetates/Spirit of Wine: There was a private experiment performed in the PRS Lab from January through March in 1975 specifically for and under the supervision of Albertus. The experiment originally involved acetates of Potassium, Magnesium, Aluminum, Sodium, and Zink. The above were put through a process using ethanol which involved seperation using extraters, low heat calcination, maseration, and reverberation. Fractional distillation was performed at a point and acid was distilled off seperate. The Magnesium acetate became the center of the experiment (work on the rest was stopped) as the magnesium acetate was the first or only one that "decayed". The process eventually ended up utilizing a retort in a sand bath. The contents of the retort,ie- magnesium salts, oily substance, and enhanced ethanol were eventually shipped to Albertus in Europe where he was teaching in 1975. What happened to the stuff after that is unknown to me. This is only mentioned since ethanol was involved with this process which did involve acetates. This may be totally off the subject, if so, please accept my apology. I seek no responses but if there are any please keep them simple as my knowledge of the subject matter is very limited and I am not currently involved with labratory work, nor plan to be. Thank You Sat Mar 23 16:58:21 1996 Subject: 0509 What is magic? From: Paul Bartscher Date: Sat, 23 Mar 96 08:20:47 MST Magic (or magick for that matter) is merely the ability to understand and manipulate the laws of nature at a level more advanced than the average person. The path of magic is an agressive one- the key word in my definition is MANIPULATE- the use of one's own will and intent to create the non-ordinary. Therefore, concepts such as "the grace of Divinity" have no place here. The devotional path of waiting for inspiriation from above is a valid one, but is too passive to be called magic. Nature seeks a balance in all things- the magician seeks to use this tendency to manipulate Nature into a desired reaction. If the magician puts a great deal of energy into one side of Nature's balance, Nature will react in a predictable manner, whether the operating magician is working on a talisman, a voodoo doll, alchemy, or any other operation involving such laws. As for "high" and "low" magic- if it all operates according to the same laws, such adjectives are merely the value judgements of a society still too tied to the restrictive morality of the mediaeval Christians. As we've discussed before, good and evil are two sides of the same coin, and, as Eliphas Levi says, "Michael (the archangel) needs the devil as a statue needs a pedestal". G.Leake brings up the point of intent- to wit, is the magic being performed with the intention of personal gain, or for union with the divine? Union with the divine IS personal gain, regardless of how lofty a goal it may seem to be. The great Tibetan sage Tarthang Tulku, expressing in modern times an age-old Eastern idea, warns us of the dangers of what he calls spiritual materialism- the clinging of the soul to the longing for the divine. Ultimately, all attachments must fall away- the longing for money, better sex, nicer cars, AND divine union. That last one is the most difficult and the most important. Strength & Wisdom, Paul & Micah Sun Mar 24 12:46:07 1996 Subject: 0510 Thanks for responses to my question on the hand From: Claire Sherman Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:11:46 -0500 (EST) Thanks to all who responded to my request for representations of alchemical hands. I was able to find the 1667 and 1773 editions of Johann Isaacus Hollandus, "The Hand of the Philosophers." I am very grateful to Maury for having translated the relevant portion of the text. An excellent reproduction of the illustration in question forms the frontispiece of Stanislas Kosslowski de Rola's "Le Jeu d'Or," published in English as "The Golden Game." This book has a rich corpus of illustrated alchemical text. I was also able to find the print and manuscript versions of "The Hand of the Philosophers" in the Mellon Collection at Yale's Beinecke Library. The first is no. 157 (1773 edition) in Vol. 2 of the catalogue; the second is no. 106 in vol. 4, an Italian translation of the text with an illustration on p. 616. Last year at a Christie's sale of books from the Bute collection a 17th c. English manuscript of alchemical texts that belonged first to William Backhouse and then most probably to Elias Ashmole, including "The Hand of the Philosophers," had a watercolor illustration related to the printed text. A modern drawing appears in Manly P. Hall's "An Encyclopedic Outline of Masonic, Hermetic, Qabbalistic and Rosicrucian Symbolic Philosophy," although the source is not given. Again, thanks for the information. My interest in the subject arises from a larger project on "The Inscribed Hand as a Cognitive Map in Medieval and Renaissance Visual Culture." Claire Sherman csherman@cpcug.org Sun Mar 24 12:46:23 1996 Subject: 0511 Representations of hands with alchemical symbols From: leslie grollman Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:28:01 -0700 >From: Maury ----cut----- ' This is sufficient about the seven secret signs of the philosophers.' ah, dear sir, your post has whet my appetite! where can i obtain more info? thanks. leslie Sun Mar 24 12:46:34 1996 Subject: 0512 What is magic? From: William Smith Date: 23 Mar 1996 11:28:01 GMT "Magic is merely the release of power through an efficient form by an act of will. . . . Magic thus understood, differs from age to age according to the focalization of the Races's will and desire" ----Dane Rudhyar, Art as Release of Power (Oceano, Calif. 1929), p. 1. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sent from Designlink, San Francisco. Online Service for Creative Professionals. Modem: (510) 933-9676; (510) 845-4187; (415) 241-9927 Internet: Via TCP/IP PORT: 3000; IP: 206.14.15.3 WEB: http://www.designlink.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sun Mar 24 12:46:43 1996 Subject: 0513 Alchemy Dream From: Marjorie F. Fowler Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 10:59:42 GMT At 11:33 AM 3/22/96 +0000, Alchemy forum wrote: >From: caeilte >Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 15:03:23 -0800 > > >I had a very profound dream. I think it must of had something to do with >alchemy. I was in a room at the very top of a tall building. The >building was old i.e. brick, wood floors, high ceiling etc. There was a >large table in the middle of the room. On the table was a large septr >type vase. The vase was large and had a spout. The vase was made of a >large emerald that was carved! The window opened and a dove flew in. I >was with an old man with a robe and a long white beard. Although I had >the dream three or four years ago, it is as clear as if it had just >happened in real life!!! > >What do you think it means if anything? > >Thanks > Some dreams can be profound; the images may stay with the individual for a lifetime. Generally, dreams experienced prior to waking address new directions or issues concerned with one's life-path. (Those dreamed earlier in the sleep period usually result from the occurrences of the previous day and are the unconscious' effort to work through what was encountered.) Alchemy is more oriented to an individual's conscious efforts concerning spiritual growth and enrichment. Although every alchemist undoubtedly turns to the subconscious and super-conscious for inspiration and assistance. Your dream has some elements that others have encountered also. For example, being in the uppermost chamber of a building suggests the highest point which can be attained at a point of time and space. That the room is spartan--"wood floors, brick"--suggests more an intellectual than a material theme. The grey-haired, wise old man is an archetype for a spiritual guide that many have encountered. The old man in your dream "with a robe" (do you mean "in"?) may represent this archetype or be a magician or your own older, wiser, more experienced self who will function to guide you along your path to becoming greater and/or more masterful. The table in the middle of the room suggests to me the table at which the Magician in the Tarot stands; it may mean something different to you. The dove suggests divine or spiritual inspiration, or transformation. In the final analysis, you are the only one who can interpret the dream in a way that has meaning for you. I suggest you investigate the symbolism of the Tarot, and look at some of the books on dreams written about Edgar Cayce. One final word, for some reason, the emerald vase reminds me strongly of Hermes Trimegistus' "Emerald Tablet." M. Farkas Fowler Sun Mar 24 12:46:52 1996 Subject: 0514 What is magic? From: KEEPERH2O@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 03:35:31 -0500 A Response to the posting of Paul Bartscher Date: Sat, 23 Mar 96 08:20:47 MST Dear Paul, I read your response to the question, "What is Magic?" and felt something like a cold wind run through me; true, in the sense that it likely reflects your experience -- and it raised my eyebrows -- but cold in that it misses some of the 'warmer' assumptions -- yes, I will (summoning courage) call them that -- derived of my own. Read on all ye and determine that which rings true here! You assert, >Magic (or magick for that matter) is merely the ability to understand and manipulate the laws of nature at a level more advanced than the average person.< May I provide that I would hesitate to use a word such as 'merely' to define anything approaching the artform and science and pinch of pure wonder that it is and must be to sustain. Maybe I am too much in awe of the 'powers' but I have had results enough already to sustain me for a lifetime with a full measure of true Faith and a chest of yarns to match the Spielberg in us all. Yes, >The path of magic is an agressive one< in so far as it takes an act of will, if that, in itself may be rightly termed aggressive, for without proper balance of active and passive principles you will likely "MANIPULATE" youself into a terrible and costly mistake. You can rip a rose off the bush or you can gently snip it, so, and gratefully place it in your vase. If you do not allow for "concepts such as "the grace of Divinity"' in your actions in the Sacred Space you may well lack the humility, poise and circumspection that is inherant in (I'll say it) TRUE, Theurgic Practice. As so much of Magic is a question of Timing, there is a time when we must wait; when we must have the inspiration you acknowledge as valid but may dismiss as "too passive to be called magic". Do you ever ask for permission? If you haven't, try it. And then wait for it. New wonders and Knowing will open to you. High Magic is a partnership of Powers. All the groundwork must be laid to engage those powers in proper proportion. I decided long ago the whole issue is so complex it is impossible to be aware of every contingency. Whatever previous experience, study, preparation and trustworthy companions that may bolster our beginning, all we have is our self-confidence, good faith, our persistance and our love to bear us through some occasionally, fairly dark and unknown places. We individuals in Convocation are NOT the only consciousness! Without That which is beyond our individuality our strivings are without merit or the blessing of Nature (which is anything but "predictable"). What differentiates "High" and "Low" then, is so much more than residual medieval Christian value judgements. Good grief, man! Acknowledging the laws that exist for both "High" and "Low" to avail, what are your MOTIVES?!!! How far do you think one can go on a path of personal aggrandizement, selfishness and disrespect? There is no comparison, sir! It is like you would match the patricians among us with scum. Sure, we all breath the same air, eat and excrete, but of what Quality is that? Yes, Michael needs Satan as the DEA needs drug lords. Surely you know Union implys resolution of the paradox of opposites? No, Union with the Divine is NOT personal gain! Nor will Divinity manifest to the indifferent (generally speaking, as I would not imply to limit Divinity). Divine Union is the worthy achievement of Everyman, for when one of us rises he bears us All, and what he gains he returns as selfless service to his SELF. Respectfully submitted, Keeper Love & Light! Sun Mar 24 17:39:07 1996 Subject: 0515 Kabbalistic salad dream From: Michal Pober Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:48:59 +0100 > Kaballistic Salad Dream > or > Ode to an Olive > >Dreaming fitfully one night, tossing and a turning, > When before me stood a dreadful sight that put me in delerium. >It was green, and red, and orange too and I was most appalled, > To see before me in true form a kaballistic salad. > >YeeHaYeeHa YeeHaYeeHa YeeHaYeeHa Oh! YeeHaYeeHa YeeHaYeeHa YeeHaYeeHa Oh! > To see before me in tru form a kaballistic salad. > >The eyes they were of onion, the ears of radish slices, > A nose of green cucumber, and the ears of carrot diced. >But the part I tremble to recall that gave me such a fright was > A mouth made from tomato that looked as though it'd bite! > >YeHaVaHe YeHaVaHe YeHaVaHe Ho! YeHaVaHe YeHaVaHe YeHaVaHe Ho! > A mouth made from tomato that looked as though it'd bite! This sounds like one of Arcimboldo's paintings. A. was an Italian painter who frequented the court of Rudolf II, who was one of his subjects, As far as I know were all represented by multitudes of fruits and veggies, cornucopia-style.. I'm minded to pass this information back at this moment in time, because on April 1st (honestly) there will open here in Prague, on Truhlarska Street, in the Old Town, a restaurant with the name Arcimboldo. I'll be telling you more of what's happening in Prague, which is a lot, before long; perhaps something about the menu items... michal Sun Mar 24 17:39:17 1996 Subject: 0516 M.A.Atwood From: Clinton R. Armitage Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:44:20 -0500 Posting # 0493 on March 19 by Maury could use some further attention: > Alchemistic literature >began to degenerate in the 17th century and it practically came to an end in >the 18th century. With a few exceptions, the treatises became more and more >worthless in the age of enlightenment. Though the literature of alchemy >ceased in a direct form, alchemistic ideas continued to produce after >effects, f.i., the second part of Goethe's "Faust,"............. >I have >read the book [*A Suggestive Inquiry into the Hermetic Mysteries*], and I saw >no particular reason why it should have been either burnt or preserved from >oblivion. It is by no means unintelligent but she certainly does not betray >any mysteries. It is really, in common with most alchemistic treatises, an >attempt to say what the author does not know; and that is always interesting, >because things come out which are unknown to the writer. It is extremely >intuitive and emotional, and it was written by an overflowing unconscious. ................................................ Regarding George Washington Carvers work with the peanut: In an article in the New York Times it was noted that he had told an audience that he relied little on contemporary books for help. Then the reporter took Carver to task, suggesting that Carver was filled with superstition because he talked of godly inspiration. In a letter to the Times Carver responded, "I regret that such a gross misunderstanding should arise as to what was meant by divine inspiration. Inspiration is not at variance with information, in fact the more information one has, the greater will be the inspiration. In evolving new creations, I am wondering of what value a book would be to the creator if he is not a master of analytical work, both qualitive and quantitative. I know of no one who has worked with these roots in this way. I know of no book from which I can get this information, yet I will have no trouble in doing it. Proverbs 3:6 says, 'In all ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy paths.'... ." ...................................... For myself, I have not been concerned with whether or not a particular author speaks with the authority of "knowing". How could I sit in judgement on something I did not know myself? I have absorbed what was said to the best of my ability and let the "God within" do the work. It has served me well. For me, "ideas" are important, not the source. Sun Mar 24 17:39:27 1996 Subject: 0517 What is magic? From: Paul Bartscher Date: Sun, 24 Mar 96 09:09:36 MST Dear Keeper, Our posting is not only a reflection of our own work done in some small, dark room somewhere, but a reflection of those from whom we have learned, alive and otherwise, in person and in print. One of the effects of the New Age current of thought so pervasive in modern esotericism is the confusion of magick with mysticism. The New Age movement, as with the Christian religion it seeks to replace, is making an effort to tame and sanitize all things magickal, into one big system of easy gain and warm feelings. One only has to study magicians writing as recently as the 1950's to see the ancient current of magick- cold chills and all. You assert a lack of understanding on our part of the proper balance of active and passive- but, as we said in our first posting, this balance is the basis of all of our work. By pushing a pendulum in one direction, a swing in the other direction is caused, creating a, yes, predictable, flow of energy. In this flow, the pendulum passes its point of balance, arriving at an imbalance which can be directed by the art of the magician. It is possible to "be aware of every contingency", and to prepare accordingly. The inability to do so results from lack of understanding or preparation, laziness, the breaking of the flow of the will, and a number of other faults we all are prone to. When this happens, it is more productive to term it a lesson than a "terrible and costly mistake". As for permission- permission implies the existence of a higher being that the operator feels obligated to answer to. We do believe in the existence of higher powers than ourselves, however, asking and waiting for permission has more to do with religious devotion than magick. Even the Eastern practitioners of Bhakti Yoga, a devotional practice along these lines, acknowledge that Raja Yoga, a more magickal path of personal power, is the higher, though more demanding, of the two. Magick is an art form, not a religion. While devotion may be a useful tool, it is not the art. An artist uses many tools- paint, canvas, paintbrush, his hand, but ultimately, the art is none of these things. An artist is not required to ask for permission to create his masterpiece- he considers his desire to create and his ability to do so all the permission needed. As to motives such as "personal aggrandizement, selfishness, and disrespect", each of us must decide for ourselves what our motives are. It is the direction of the will, not the purity of intent, that causes magickal effects. We have our own motives, which you cannot suppose to comprehend based merely on our posting and your interpretation of it. Seeking divine union in order to "bear us All" upwards is not the universal, ultimate goal that New Age philosophers would have us believe. Even within the seemingly ( to westerners ) altruistic religion of Buddhism, there are veins such as Hinayana and Vajrayana, that emphasize each person's responsibility to enlighten and raise himself and no other. As we said, we all have to seek our own motives, and be wary of imposing them on others. In an attempt to bring this around to the intent of this forum, we would say the following: as we consider magick to be an art, so also is alchemy. Alchemy is often reduced to the lifeless reproduction of formulas and techniques, no different than chemistry. When the arts of magick and alchemy are combined, one arrives at the true Royal Art of the ancients. A note to Adam, While these recent postings on magick seem to be only tangentially related to the alchemical purpose of this forum, we see this philosophy to be the basis of our work. We appreciate the opportunity to discuss alchemy on all of its levels, even those not directly related to physical laboratory practice. Thank you for providing such a forum. Strength & Wisdom, Paul & Micah Sun Mar 24 17:39:37 1996 Subject: 0518 What is magic? From: OISPEGGY Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 07:08:28 -0500 (EST) Paul & Micah >Ultimately, all attachments must fall away- the longing for money, >better sex, nicer cars, AND divine union. That last one is the most >difficult and the most important. Why must these longings go? "Give to god that which is god's and caesar that which is caesar's." IMO saying that all longings must go could also be caused by moralistic, christian influenced thinking. I can see where obsession with these things, or too much importance placed on them, would interfere with the great work. But tooling around in a nice (but noin a nice (but not ridiculous) car -- say a 1aving good sex -- I don't see where that is a problem. At least not a problem I would mind having. IMO any judgements should be based on effective vs. ineffective. I fail to see where a car and sex need have any effect at all on the great work. In fact they might help because you have to drive to the store to buy materials and sex helps rejunvenate the body and spirit. - Peggy - Mon Mar 25 09:16:55 1996 Subject: 0519 What is magic? From: Gilbert Arnold Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 16:12:03 -0500 I would like to thank Mr.William Smith for giving us the following definition; "Magic is merely the release of power through an efficient form by an act of will. . . . Magic thus understood, differs from age to age according to the focalization of the Races's will and desire" ----Dane Rudhyar, Art as Release of Power (Oceano, Calif. 1929), p. 1. There is obviously many possible definitions of Magic; I would say the above would explain types of magic that predominate in a given social/political context but that beyond and/or within the "Races's will and desire" there is the individual's that contribute the many definitions we have seen posted on this subject, some of which lay the seed for further development. Blessings, +Gilbert Mon Mar 25 09:18:05 1996 Subject: 0520 What is magic? From: Barry Carter Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 12:38:55 +0000 Dear Peggy, > >Ultimately, all attachments must fall away- the longing for money, > >better sex, nicer cars, AND divine union. That last one is the most > >difficult and the most important. > > Why must these longings go? "Give to god that which is god's and > caesar that which is caesar's." > > IMO saying that all longings must go could also be caused by > moralistic, christian influenced thinking. Words change and meanings get distorted as time passes. Alchemical texts must be read by people who are doing the work before they make sense, whether they are refering to chemistry or the things of the heart. The Bhagavad Gita talks about action without attachment to the fruits of action. The I Ching says: Mountains standing close together: The image of KEEPING STILL. Thus the superior man Does not permit his thoughts To go beyond his situation The heart thinks constantly. This cannot be changed, but the movements of the heart--that is, a man's thoughts--should restrict themselves to the immediate situation. All thinking that goes beyond this only makes the heart sore. The Buddha said that suffereing is caused by attachment. Jesus said: Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? . . . seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. These are all expressions of the spiritual understanding that attachment leads to suffering. Put in another way, using modern terms, we could say addiction leads to suffering. If we define addiction as wanting something so badly that we would hurt others to get it, we can see the connection to the law of karma. It is fashionable in our culture to use the word "need" to justify what we want. If you need something then it is thought to be harder for your suppliers to refuse you. NEED IS A DECISION TO SUFFER. Need by definition means that if you don't get what you need, something bad will happen. Need is like an attempt to blackmail God, others or yourself into giving you what you want. It is ok to want. Want is not usually an emotion backed demand. I want to eat today but I don't need to eat for another forty days. Too often we justify hurting others with our urgency. Fasting is a great teacher. Fasting teaches us how to direct our thoughts where we want them to go. If we think about food while we fast, it makes the fast that much more difficult. Edgar Cayce said "Thoughts are things and they have the power of things". Jane Roberts said "You create your own reality, there is no other law". In alchemy the interaction between the thoughts and the process is direct and provides immediate feedback. If the attention is distracted by addictions it becomes impossible to move with the material. I don't think we must give up sex or cars or Divine Union. We must give up our addiction to these things. As T.S. Eliot said, it is "the purification of desire on the ground of our beseaching". Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance Voice 541-523-3357 Fax 541-523-9438 Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Mon Mar 25 14:22:09 1996 Subject: 0521 Red Earth From: Petra Gottlieb Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 17:39:52 +1000 In reference to George's wondering >>if menstrual blood might be the prima materia, << I am inclined to say: yes. For any EGG "NOT" FERTILISED returns to MOTHER NATURE without further development, becoming the " kaput mortum", "mater confusa" (chaos) again, a "MATERIAL" substance (red earth) to start another evolution until ripe, mature to be fertilised. Nature brings it up to the "flower", but it is the "bee" (by pollination) that makes the next step of evolution possible >> that of the "fruit". For it is written: 'Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (Genesis 2,7). Described here are TWO processes: The "FORMING" (whereby the long chain of evolution exactly in accordance to the laws of nature [which are the expressions of the Will of God] from the first cell to the highest developed ANIMAL is meant), and the "ANIMATION", (which is the INCARNATION of SPIRIT on earth for the first time after a long period of evolution). This knowledge I obtained from the book: "IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH" 'THE GRAIL MESSAGE' by Abd-ru-shin (Oskar Ernst Bernhardt) Vol. II/3 "The Creation of Man" ( URL: http://www.aone.net.au/grail ). Mon Mar 25 14:22:18 1996 Subject: 0522 Representations of hands with alchemical symbols From: Josh Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 21:53:49 -0800 >Again, thanks for the information. My interest in the subject arises from >a larger project on "The Inscribed Hand as a Cognitive Map in Medieval >and Renaissance Visual Culture." > >Claire Sherman csherman@cpcug.org Here's another reference which may be useful, from Rabbi Nachman of Bratslav. It's from his kabbalistic tale "The Master of Prayer" (Paulist Press, 1978; "The Tales," Nachman of Bratslav, transl. Arnold J. Band). The tale was given to his disciples very early in the 1800's, so it's not strictly within your time frame -- but his sources may be older, and in any case it's completely fascinating, in my opinion one of the most striking images in all his tales. The main passage dealing with the hand begins like this: "At the palace of the King with whom I stayed was a hand, that is, there was a picture of a hand with five fingers and with all the lines which are on a hand. And this hand was a map of all the worlds. And everything which has been from the Creation of the heavens and the earth until the end of time, and what will be afterwards was drawn on that hand. A drawing of the position of each and every world with all its details was drawn in the lines of the hand, as it is drawn on a map. And there were letters on the lines just as there are letters written on a map next to each item so that one may know what that item is.... [More details follow on the kinds of things and correspondences to be found in the hand.] And because of this I knew how to enter this city which is impossible for any man to enter..." It may be that this magical hand is intended as an image of the Torah; the five fingers of the hand may correspond to the five books of the Torah. Good luck in your researches -- I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. /jcs Mon Mar 25 14:22:31 1996 Subject: 0523 Alchemy Dream From: al4302 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:00:27 +0100 >From: Marjorie F. Fowler >Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 10:59:42 GMT >>I had a very profound dream... As the Philosophers have always said "while sleeping watch" Tue Mar 26 10:07:14 1996 Subject: 0524 Red Earth From: Pat Zalewski Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 07:29 NZST >Petra AS for the red earth or Adamic clay as it sometimes called. I think it is human cellular tissue. Be it blood or anything else. As for the biblical reference in genesis , I am sticking to the theme that ET did it! Not exactly alchemic though. Pat zalewski Tue Mar 26 10:10:46 1996 Subject: 0525 Alchemy Dream From: Steve Rosen Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 15:37:59 > I had a very profound dream. I think it must of had something to do with > alchemy. I was in a room at the very top of a tall building. The > building was old i.e. brick, wood floors, high ceiling etc. There was a > large table in the middle of the room. On the table was a large septr > type vase. The vase was large and had a spout. The vase was made of a > large emerald that was carved! The window opened and a dove flew in. I > was with an old man with a robe and a long white beard. Although I had > the dream three or four years ago, it is as clear as if it had just > happened in real life!!! > > What do you think it means if anything? The vase with the spout brings to mind the hermetic vessel. Steve Rosen Tue Mar 26 10:10:54 1996 Subject: 0526 M.A. Atwood From: John Obrien Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:34:02 -0600 (CST) > From: Diane Munoz > > But isn't it possible that the decision was made FOR the South's in that > throughout the ages this material has been suppressed by those in" > authority". Anytime anything of this nature was made freely public it was > destroyed, as were the schools that taught it, particularly in the Middle Diane makes a good point. Tue Mar 26 10:11:04 1996 Subject: 0527 alchemical music From: Coulombe Patrice Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 19:43:45 -0500 (EST) I am a music composer and I am very interested in alchemical studies. So,I need some information about music in alchemy. Is there alchemical music as there are alchemical books? Are you aware of examples of music which explain by allegories or by musical techniques the steps of the alchemical process? Is it possible to make alchemical music? Are there musician alchemists? Is there music in the alchemical repertoire? If someone has some interesting information for me (books, references,) please send it to me by the forum or by a private e-mail. Sincerely and fraternally Patrice Coulombe (coulomp@ere.umontreal.ca) Quebec,Canada Tue Mar 26 10:11:14 1996 Subject: 0528 What is magic? From: Jason Johns Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 00:49:48 PST Barry Wrote : > I don't think we must give up sex or cars or Divine Union. We must > give up our addiction to these things. As T.S. Eliot said, it is "the > purification of desire on the ground of our beseaching". Perfectly true there Barry, that is what I am currently working on. When eating a bar of chocolate or whatever, it must be due to conscious choice, and not habit / addiction. Every action you take should be a conscious choice! Regards Jason Tue Mar 26 13:45:25 1996 Subject: 0529 advice on LPN Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 07:46:08 -0600 From: Roy M. Liuzza First, an apology for a topic which I'm sure has been covered before; I'm new to this forum and, to be honest, to this whole idea. I've recently become determined to learn more about alchemy and hermetic philosophy in a more-than-academic way, but I'm not sure where to turn for advice. An organization called The Philosophers of Nature offers what seems to be a 'correspondence course' in basic theory and practice. If anyone has had experience with them, I'd appreciate their opinion or a description of their experience; reply privately or in this forum. Thank you, Roy Liuzza rliuzza@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu Tue Mar 26 13:47:05 1996 Subject: 0530 Red Earth From: al4302 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 12:04:11 +0100 Have you considered cinnabar? >AS for the red earth or Adamic clay as it sometimes called. I think it is >human cellular tissue. Be it blood or anything else. As for the biblical >reference in genesis , I am sticking to the theme that ET did it! Not >exactly alchemic though. > >Pat zalewski Tue Mar 26 16:53:51 1996 Subject: 0531 alchemical music Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 01:43:39 +0900 From: Shinmei Suzuki Dear Patrice >I am a music composer and I am very interested in alchemical studies. So,I >need some information about music in alchemy. Is there alchemical music as >there are alchemical books? Are you aware of examples of music which explain >by allegories or by musical techniques the steps of the alchemical process? Is >it possible to make alchemical music? Are there musician alchemists? Is there >music in the alchemical repertoire? I recommend the next book regarding alchemical music and mystical music. Joscelyn Godwin HARMONIES OF HEAVEN AND EARTH The spiritual dimension of music from antiquity to the avant-garde (1987, THAMES AND HUDSON LTD., LONDON) Sincerely Yours, Shinmei Suzuki (visual artist, sound performer) chemiart@super.win.or.jp Tue Mar 26 18:35:12 1996 Subject: 0532 alchemical music From: joshua geller Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 08:54:03 -0800 > From: Coulombe Patrice > Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 19:43:45 -0500 (EST) > I am a music composer and I am very interested in alchemical studies. > So,I need some information about music in alchemy. Is there alchemical > music as there are alchemical books? try 'atalanta fugiens' by michael maier. josh Tue Mar 26 20:42:18 1996 Subject: 0533 An Alchemical Omen? From: Patrick J. Smith Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 11:27:05 -0700 Yesterday, after several days of storms, the skies cleared in the Salt Lake City area, and last night, with a cold wind blowing away the atmospheric debris, I was finally able to get a clear view of the comet. To the unaided eye, it appeared as a fuzzy, out-of-focuss star, recalling the ancient meaning of the word comet---hairy, and Aristotle's explanation as an exhalation of the upper atmosphere. Through binoculars, part of the tail was visible, which became clearer after the moon had set. The comet was like an apparition or spectre---ghostly, silent, and awe inspiring. To the chaotic world of the ancient Greek philosophers, the orderliness of the heavens was a reassuring sight, and so the unexpected appearance of a comet was a sign of some disordering influence in the realm of the gods. Hence, by the law of correspondence, a comet was also a portent of disorder in the human realm---earthquakes, famines, plagues, wars. It was also sometimes taken as an omen of the death of a king. And so these appearances have been recorded for thousands of years. Alchemy has, since its beginnings, been strongly influenced by the ancient law of correspondence. Especially to early alchemists, the changes that took place within their vessels were connected in some mysterious way with the events in the skies---eclipses, favourable conjunctions, and so forth. The `death of a king' also has a clear alchemical meaning: the dissolution of the metallic body of gold into its first matter, which was the first priciple stage of the Work. Thus, the appearance of this comet could be taken as a sign in the skies that now is a favourable time to begin. -Patrick Wed Mar 27 09:15:21 1996 Subject: 0534 alchemical music From: Gilbert Arnold Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 15:58:35 -0500 Atlanta Fugiens was recorded. Wed Mar 27 09:15:32 1996 Subject: 0535 alchemical music From: dan hill Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 15:02:42 CST Mozart's Magic Flute is an example. Pythagoras's music of the spheres is another good example of mystical or alchemical interpretation of music. You might also note that Gurdjief had a theory of music as well. ...ave, Wed Mar 27 09:15:42 1996 Subject: 0536 alchemical music From: chaslin Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 22:57:09 +0100 >From: Coulombe Patrice=20 >Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 19:43:45 -0500 (EST) > > > I am a music composer and I am very interested in alchemical studies. >So,I need some information about music in alchemy. I would suggest you to study the texts of Wagner's Ring. The tetralogie is full of alchemical allegories. (the conquest of gold, the fire, the language of birds, and so on...) Wagner was initiated in diverses secret societies, but was probabely not directly an alchemist. Music is an aspect of the process wich leads to the stone, but applicated to an other matter. The real genius, the real inspiration is a sort of stone, and Mozart or Bach could be considered like high gradueted Adepts, like accomplished alchemists in their domain. I am a musician also, but I study Alchemy as a specific matter, I don't try to connect it more than the nature already connected things together.= Sincerly, Frederic Wed Mar 27 09:15:57 1996 Subject: 0537 advice on LPN Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 16:53:33 -0500 From: Gilbert Arnold The PON (LPN) course in Plant Spagyrics will teach you, among other things, about many useful elements, including one way to volatilize vegetable Salts and a good introduction to Lab safety. PON also carries information about the RAMS collection and Kessinger publications and other publishers; these are exellent sources of traditional writings. They are also open minded. samples of their publication "The Stone" are available online. I personally have profited from the above mentioned information as PART of the reference material I use for Laboratory Work. Many people have. There is a lot of potential for further development and education. Wed Mar 27 09:16:09 1996 Subject: 0538 alchemical music From: Josh Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 14:14:40 -0800 Hello Patrice, >>I am a music composer and I am very interested in alchemical studies. So,I >>need some information about music in alchemy. >I recommend the next book regarding alchemical music and mystical music. > > Joscelyn Godwin > > HARMONIES OF HEAVEN AND EARTH > The spiritual dimension of music from antiquity to the avant-garde > (1987, THAMES AND HUDSON LTD., LONDON) Yes, and "Atalanta Fugiens" (which Joshua Geller earlier mentioned) is also available in a paperback edition edited by Godwin; you can even send away for a cassette of the music written by Maier. I haven't heard it -- would love to. /jcs Wed Mar 27 09:16:21 1996 Subject: 0539 alchemical music From: John Obrien Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 17:51:08 -0600 (CST) > >it possible to make alchemical music? Are there musician alchemists? Is there > >music in the alchemical repertoire? > > I recommend the next book regarding alchemical music and mystical music. > HARMONIES OF HEAVEN AND EARTH > The spiritual dimension of music from antiquity to the avant-garde > (1987, THAMES AND HUDSON LTD., LONDON) > Shinmei Suzuki In addition to what has been already reported, I'm reminded of the attempts of creating music by sustituting musical notes for human genome sequences. I'm told some of the results are quite striking, and that some resemble music written by some very famous classical composers. Mozart for example, but he's not the only one. -- ,o888b,`?~~~~~ ~~~~~P',d888o, ,8888 888 ?~~~ John D. O'Brien obriens@sound.net ~~~P 888 8888, 8888888P' ~~~ ~~~ ?8888888 888P' ~~~ "When all the World recognizes ~~~ `?888 `88 O d~~~ good as good, This in itself ~~~b O 88' `?._ _.o~~~~~ is Evil." Lao Tsu ~~~~~o._ _.P' Wed Mar 27 09:17:10 1996 Subject: 0540 advice on LPN From: Pat Zalewski Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 13:02 NZST Roy I have a copy of their lessons covering the plant theory. They do excellent work. I cannot praise them high enough. They only suggestion I would make is get a 2000 ml. retort made up ( and recepticle) as this will double for any distillation train and is a lot easier to work with. Especially when trying to distil alcohol. Witha retort you do not need water flowing all the time trying to cool things down. Pat zalewski Wed Mar 27 09:17:19 1996 Subject: 0541 What is Magic? From: KEEPERH2O@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 01:12:28 -0500 Dear Paul, You are no doubt right about our points of view reflecting our own experience and resources. I found your response to the issues I raised measured, responsible, and for the most part inarguable, because I respect your perspective. It would probably be better to shave the hairs (enough, assuredly, to share with some bald spots) over espresso at a downtown cafe. Do you ever get to Portland, Oregon? Chuckles. I will, however, take a moment to explain my approach to "permission". Yes, I've had some experience in my younger days "storming the Gates of Heaven", if you will, and was actually surprised when I found they could be breached! This "permission" thing is not any tacit agreement on my part that I haven't the right to do what I will without an appeal to deity. I don't see it that way. It begins more with a sense of humility (and acumen) before the august and mysterious Nature surrounding me. A lot of what I do is outdoors. I talk to the spirit/s there. I talk to the mountains. I tell them I am here. And you know? They answer! They answer in the "predictable" way, too. And, when they do a significant "base" is covered. Far from a "touchy feely" power, a potentially dangerous adversary is, at minimum, met and calmed with agreement, and, maximally, I'm stronger because I am not acting alone. Furthermore, when I know I am being observed. I cannot think of a better "yoga" to keep it true, sharp and to the point. Love & Light! Keeper Wed Mar 27 09:34:37 1996 Subject: Alchemy Web site I wonder if some of the Forum members could give me some feedback on my Alchemy Web site: http:///www.colloquium.co.uk/alchemy/ Not regarding the content - but regarding speed of access, unavailability of the site or delays in finding pages, and any technical problems encountered when browsing the site. I will not repost these messages onto the alchemy forum, but I need some information about how easy it is to use this site, and any technical problems. With my best wishes Adam McLean Wed Mar 27 20:14:50 1996 Subject: 0542 alchemical music From: Anthony McCormick Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 19:06:03 +1000 (EST) to patrice coulombe, to quote "division is sin" i find your question interesting. a book that i return to after various periods that may be of assistance, the pythagorean plato-prelude to the song itself by ernest g. mcclain yours sincerely stephen huckerby >From: Coulombe Patrice > I am a music composer and I am very interested in alchemical studies. >So,I need some information about music in alchemy. Is there alchemical >music as there are alchemical books? Are you aware of examples of music >which explain by allegories or by musical techniques the steps of the >alchemical process? Is it possible to make alchemical music? Are there musician >alchemists? Is there music in the alchemical repertoire? > > If someone has some interesting information for me (books, >references,) please send it to me by the forum or by a private e-mail. > > Sincerely and fraternally > Patrice Coulombe (coulomp@ere.umontreal.ca) > Quebec,Canada Wed Mar 27 20:15:02 1996 Subject: 0543 advice on LPN From: Jfruther Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 04:23:40 -0500 Dear Roy, for further information upon the course, see the web-page of the Philosophers of Nature. I already work with this material and suggest it as very good. For further information mail me. Jfruther@aol.com Yours... Wed Mar 27 20:15:12 1996 Subject: 0544 alchemical music From: Jason Johns Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 04:09:33 PST > In addition to what has been already reported, I'm reminded of the attempts > of creating music by sustituting musical notes for human genome sequences. > I'm told some of the results are quite striking, and that some resemble > music written by some very famous classical composers. Mozart for > example, but he's not the only one. This is extremely intriguing. Does anyone have any further details of this project or who I can contact regarding it? Thanks Jason [Jason_Johns.RXUK@eur.xerox.com] Wed Mar 27 20:15:20 1996 Subject: 0545 Books search !! From: Pavel Korensky Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 12:00:10 +0100 (GMT+0100) Please, can anybody help me with the following problem ? I would like to have the copies of the following books: ????? Epistola de Igne Philosophorum Pontanus De Lapide Philosophico Gerad de Cremone Geomancie Claudius Popelin Les Trois Livres de l'Art du Potier Please, can anybody help me with the information where is possible to find these books ? Some contacts to libaries, publishing houses e Thank you for any help Best regards Pavel Korensky Wed Mar 27 20:15:29 1996 Subject: 0546 What is magic? From: Petra Gottlieb Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 00:13:45 GMT I just like to add to Jason's >> Every action you take should be a conscious choice!<< Yes, because in unconsciousness lies ir-respons-ibility. That means in being unconscious one has not developed the ability to calculate in the consequences of one's choice. But with a conscious choice of eating chocolate one knows the detriment if eating it in excess, namely that all energy not used adds to the circumference of one's physical stature, and makes up one's mind accordingly to the effect of either - or. So, generally speaking. Man's FREE WILL only lies in the FREEDOM OF CHOICE that he has with every minute, every second of his life. The CONSEQUENCES , however , (good or bad depending on his choice) lies outside his power. They come rolling at him in accordance to THE COSMIC LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION = CAUSE AND EFFECT, THE LAW OF REPERCUSSION. In the Old Testament this same Law is described as: AN EYE FOR AN EYE - A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH, which man erroneously interpreted that he can take revenge in his own hand, disregarding the command: VENGEANCE IS MINE ! says the Lord (because it is embedded in HIS ETERNAL AND IMMUTABLE COSMIC LAW! It takes effect by itself without the interference of man. Herein also lies THE JUSTICE OF GOD!). In the New Testament this same Law is described as : WHAT A MAN SOWS HE MUST REAP. If one sows wheat one can't reap barley. Likewise it is with our thoughts, words and deeds. They are like seeds, and the harvest is according to what we have sown. Violence for violence, murder for murder, but thank heavens also, kindness for kindness, and love for love. --- Petra Christiane Gottlieb petrag@iaccess.com.au --- WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus) WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART! Wed Mar 27 20:15:38 1996 Subject: 0547 alchemical music From: Richard Kahn and Tiffany Winne Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 08:58:04 +0000 > From: chaslin > Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 22:57:09 +0100 > > >From: Coulombe Patrice=20 > >Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 19:43:45 -0500 (EST) > > > > > > I am a music composer and I am very interested in alchemical studies. > >So,I need some information about music in alchemy. > > I would suggest you to study the texts of Wagner's Ring. The tetralogie is > full of alchemical allegories. (the conquest of gold, the fire, the language > of birds, and so on...) > Wagner was initiated in diverses secret societies, but was probabely not > directly an alchemist. Music is an aspect of the process wich leads to the > stone, but applicated to an other matter. The real genius, the real > inspiration is a sort of stone, and Mozart or Bach could be considered like > high gradueted Adepts, like accomplished alchemists in their domain. > I am a musician also, but I study Alchemy as a specific matter, I don't try > to connect it more than the nature already connected things together.= > Sincerly, > Frederic I'm surprised that no one's mentioned it. But Beethoven's entire symphonic structure should obviously be heard in this regard as well...the represent an alchemical dialectic with the odd and even numbered ones each representing differing principles which must be cross-pollenated and bathed in each other. The symphonic structure is the macrocosm. As regards the microcosm, look to the classic 5th. Fate knocking on the door has nothing to do with it. This is pure alchemy of the microcosm. Listen for the dialectic, and so many secrets will be revealed. Again, the symphonies as a whole represented Beethoven's attempt at divine language; and in this light, the 5th is the ultimate music of human-kind because it represents humanity in the cycle. It is the music of microcosm, but Adamic microcosm (filled with tragedy perhaps but also retaining the shape and structure of the divine). I realize that the original poster was probably looking for something more along the lines of Atalanta Fugiens...something which proclaims itself as "alchemical" in nature. But all of us who practice know that the "truth which hides" is far more subtle and sublime an elixir...I've let the cat out of the bag. Now can you catch him...buy those symphonies! Peace in craft, Richard Kahn -- ______________________________________________ Richard and Tiffany (richard @user1.channel1.com) HTTP://www.channel1.com/users/richard "The Truth is not always beautiful, nor Beauty truthful."---Lao Tze "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."---Abraham Lincoln "Pass the Gin..."---I said that. _____________________________________________ Wed Mar 27 20:38:30 1996 Subject: 0548 alchemical music From: John C. Merritt Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 13:12:26 -0600 (CST) On Wed, 27 Mar 1996, Alchemy forum wrote: > From: chaslin > Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 22:57:09 +0100 > > > >From: Coulombe Patrice=20 > >Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 19:43:45 -0500 (EST) > > > > > > I am a music composer and I am very interested in alchemical studies. > >So,I need some information about music in alchemy. > > I would suggest you to study the texts of Wagner's Ring. The tetralogie is > full of alchemical allegories. (the conquest of gold, the fire, the language > of birds, and so on...) I'll second this suggestion, and add _Parsifal_, but, as Nietzsche pointed out in _The Case of Wagner_, most of Wagner's operas from _The Flying Dutchman_ on deal with redemption of some sort or another, and so might symbolically parallel the Opus. The apparent exception is _Der Meistersinger_, but that one might count also, depending on how you look at it. > Wagner was initiated in diverses secret societies, but was probabely not > directly an alchemist. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, for one, would like to see some serious documentation on this claim of Wagner's belonging to an initiatory group. Mozart's affiliations with Austrian Freemasonry is well documented by his biographers, but I havent seen this claim for Wagner made outside the occult literature. Im not necessarily not believing you on this, but a reference to a reputable biography of Wagner would be appreciated. > > Music is an aspect of the process wich leads to the > stone, but applicated to an other matter. > ...... > > Sincerly, > Frederic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is very true, though not appreciated by those who are focused on the lab work. See Meyer's _Atalanta Fugens_ for the classical example of alchemical music. The recording of this, by the way, is very beautiful and well worth the price. ----------| John Merritt | beowulf@bga.com |--------- Thu Mar 28 09:25:56 1996 Subject: 0549 advice on LPN From:Russ House Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 00:39:40 -0500 Roy, As an officer of The Philosophers of Nature, it was tremendously gratifying to see that you received responses from 3 continents regarding your inquiry. My involvement with the P.O.N. dates from 1986. The association and its teachings are not perfect, but they are evolving, and serve a rather specific need honorably. It is certain that the P.O.N. can offer support and resources to those seeking to study Alchemy and Qabala in a 'more-than-academic' way. The theory and practice are developed together in the correspondence courses,which get into some depth about the subject matter rather quickly. I suggest that you spend some time at the P.O.N. web site: http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/ Here there are some new additions, including a list of frequently asked questions, as well as information about our next major seminar to be held in Colorado. While our correspondence courses are the primary means of instruction, the various seminars have helped to add a dimension to them. I recall fondly the first U.S. seminar when there were more than 80 people in my back yard, with 3 large propane-fed gas furnaces being used to make regulus of antimony. It was a bit of a conversation piece for the neighbors. Since then we have rented an entire Girl Scout camp in the area for two of the annual seminars. We are considering some new video productions and eventual CD-ROM educational tools, as well as the necessity of doing more traveling to provide classes for members and those with interest in these topics. In the past our service levels were not the best (it is a volunteer organization), but we have made significant improvements, and consider them to be only a start. This Alchemy Forum is a blessing for all of us, and I hope that no one will consider my response to be inappropriate 'commercialization'. With regards, Russ House, Vice-President, The Philosophers of Nature, Inc. > I've recently become determined to learn more about alchemy and >hermetic philosophy in a more-than-academic way, but I'm not sure where to >turn for advice. An organization called The Philosophers of Nature offers >what seems to be a 'correspondence course' in basic theory and practice. If >anyone has had experience with them, I'd appreciate their opinion or a >description of their experience; reply privately or in this forum. > > Thank you, > > Roy Liuzza > rliuzza@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu ==================================== Courses in Alchemy * Qabala * Esoteric Studies The Philosophers of Nature http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/ email: alchemy@mcs.com ==================================== "Thou, Nature, art my Goddess. To thy law my services are bound." -- Shakespeare (King Lear) Thu Mar 28 09:36:07 1996 Subject: Alchemy forum digest I wish to announce a new feature of the alchemy forum. It is now possible to receive the alchemy forum mail in one large digest (gathering together 10 or 12 posts) sent out about every two days, instead of the individual messages. Of course, you will be a day or so behind the others on the forum, but this method of receiving the forum posts in large chunks may suit some users. If you want tor receive the digests instead of the normal individual postings then contact me at alchemypost@colloquium.co.uk or alchemy@zz.com and I will set this up for you within a few days. With my best wishes, Adam McLean Thu Mar 28 10:16:29 1996 Subject: 0550 Books Search - John Pontanus Pavel Korensky asks about works of John Pontanus. I attach a list of the relevant books. The 'Philosophical Epistle' is very short and I will endeavour to find the time to copy this out and place it on to the Web site, hopefully in a day or so. The 'Philosophical Epistle' was often quoted in 17th century alchemical books, and seems to have had a special interest to English authors. Adam McLean -------------------------------------- Bernard Georges PENOT [1530-1620]. Apologia. Bernardi G. Penoti, a Portu S. Mariæ Aquitani in duas partes divisa ad Iosephi Michelii Middelburgensis Medici scriptum, quo Bern. P. a Portu Aquitani sententiam de pseudo temporistis, in præfatione Dialogi inter Naturam et Filium Philosophiæ expositam turpi inscitia et calumnia impudenti invertit. Cui sequentia opuscula adjuncta sunt: De Physici Lapidis Materia, et quibus signis dignoscatur. Item de Multiplici Igne Lapidis. Frankfurt, 1600. [Item 3. Axiomate Physica ex gravissimorum Philosophorum Libris eruta, quibus adiuncta est epistola summi philosophi Ioannis Pontani de lapide philosophorum, in qua non solum de materia lapidis agitur, verum etiam de igne physicorum, quo mediante, totum opus perficitur. Et Epistola Bernardi Penoti a Portu, ad D. Andream Libavium et Librorum ab auctore editorum Catalogus.] Theatrum Chemicum...Ursel, 1602. Vol. III p734. Joannes Pontanus. Epistola in qua de lapide quem Philosophorum vocant, agitur. George RIPLEY. Opuscula quædam chemica. Georgii Riplei Medulla philosophiæ chemicæ. Incerti autoris Canones decem, mysterium artis mira brevitate et perspicuitate comprehendentes. Heliæ Monachi Franciscani Speculum alchymiæ. Ioan. Aurelii Augurelli Chrysopoeiæ compendium paraphrasticum. Artefi Clavis maioris sapientiæ. Ioan. Pontani Epistola de lapide philosophorum. Galli Etschenreuteri medici Epistola ad Guilielmum Gratarolum. Omnia partim ex veteribus manuscriptis eruta, partim restituta. Frankfurt, 1614. Nicolas FLAMEL. His Exposition of the Hieroglyphicall Figures which he caused to bee painted upon an Arch in St. Innocents Church-yard, in Paris. Together with The secret Booke of Artephius, And The Epistle of John Pontanus: Concerning both the Theoricke and the Practicke of the Philosophers Stone. Faithfully, and (as the Maiesty of the thing requireth) done into English out of the French and Latine copies. By Eirenæus Orandus, qui est, Vera veris enodans... London, 1624. Michael SENDIVOGIUS. Lumen chymicum novum XII Tractatibus divissum... Erfurt, 1624. [Item 5. Epistola Joannis Pontani, in qua de lapide, quem Philosophorum vocant, agitur.] John FRENCH. The Art of Distillation... London, 1651. Theatrum Chemicum...Strassburg, 1659. Vol. V. p487. Epistola Joannis Pontani in qua de Lapide quem Philosophorum vocant agitur. Raphael EGLINUS [Nicolaus Niger Hapelius] Cheiragogia Heliana. A manuduction to the philosopher's magical gold... To which is added; <'Antron MitraV >, Zoroaster's cave; or, an intellectuall echo, &c. Together with the famous Catholic epistle of John Pontanus upon the minerall fire. By Geo. Thor. Astromagus. London, 1659. George THOR. An easie introduction to the philosophers magical gold. To which is added, Zorasters cave; as also John Pontanus Epistle upon the mineral fire; otherwise called, the philosophers stone. By Geor. Thor, Astromagus. London, 1667 Sir Kenelm DIGBY. Chymical Secrets, and rare experiments in Physick and Philosophy, with figures Collected and Experimented, by the Honourable and Learned Sir Kenelm Digby, Chancellor to the late Queen-Mother of England. Containing, Many Rare and Unheard of Medicines, Mentruums, and Alkahests; the Philosophical Arcanum of Flamel Artefius, Pontanus and Zachary, with the True Secret of Volatilizing the fixed Salt of Tartar. Published since his Death, by George Hartman Chymist, and Steward to the aforementioned Sir Kenelm. London, 1683. Matthäus ERBINÄUS von BRANDAU. XII. Grund-Säulen der Natur und Kunst, worauf die Verwandelung der Metallen gebauet, benebst V. vornehmer Artisten wahrhafften Processen, worunter einer des Th. Paracelsi, welcher noch niemahlen in Druck gesehen worden... Herrn Autoris, ob zwar etwas unleserlichen Manuscripto nebst einer, kurtzen Beschreibung Johannis Pontani secreten philosophischen Feuers auf Begehren unterschiedener vornehmen Leute zum Druck befördert von einem Grossen Liebhaber des Theophrasti Paracelsi. Leipzig, 1689. Cleidophorus MYSTAGOGUS, pseud. Mercury's Caducean rod: or, the great and wonderful office of the universal mercury, or God's vicegerent, displayed... To which is added a general epistle, discovering the mysterious fire of Pontanus. The second edition. London, 1704 Alchymistisch Sieben-Gestirn, das ist: Sieben schöne und außerlesene Tractätlein vom Stein der Weisen, darinn der richtige Weg zu solchem aller höchsten Geheimuß zu kommen hell und klar gezeiget wird... Aus dem Latein ins Hochdeutsche treulich übergesetzet. Hamburg, 1675 [Also Frankfurt, 1772] [Item 7. Pontanus, Ein Sendbrief.] |
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