Alchemy Forum 0601-0650

From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 601-650.
Go to next 50 messages . Back to forum archive.

Fri Apr 05 11:29:54 1996
Subject: 0601 Weiser Books

From: Certum
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:14:25 -0500

To Jack Handler, et al., and other fellow bibliophiles:

Greetings from Laura in North Carolina (Certum@aol.com) -

If the S. Weiser that you're talking about is the same publisher
that I think it is, then yes, they operate out of "some northern state"
(Maine) and mail-order is not a problem....and I agree that they publish
an excellent selection of books.

I've never been to an actual Samuel Weiser bookstore, and didn't
know that they had a retail location(s?); I've seen some of their books
for sale at other bookstores, here & there. They've been sending me
their catalogs regularly for several years now, and I've mail-ordered
from them several times. I think I originally got their address etc.
from one of their books, and have been dealing with them directly
ever since, whenever I wanted a particular title that I couldn't find
locally.
So without further ado, here are the coordinates:

Samuel Weiser, Inc.
Box 612
York Beach, ME 03910-0612

Phone: 207-363-4393
Order phone: 800-423-7087
Fax: 207-363-5799

They accept Visa/Mastercard/AmEx for orders over $15.

Happy reading!

In L.V.X., Laura

Fri Apr 05 11:30:03 1996
Subject: 0602 Weiser Books

From: FModica
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:36:58 -0500

I too miss Weiser's Bookshop. There is none other like it here in NY.

You can write: Samuel Weiser
P.O. Box 612
York Beach, ME 03910

They have an extensive catalogue and take mail orders.

I'll dig up the phone number and post it within a day or so.

Fri Apr 05 11:30:12 1996
Subject: 0603 Tangents in by Josh

Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:49:02 -0500
From: photopro

Josh writes:From: joshua geller
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:15:57 -0800

wisa writes:

> All the Mystical sciences are also and primarily - "tangents in" toward
> understanding who you are and becoming that.

that is certainly one, but hardly the only way to look at it.

>The Secret of the
> Universe, of all the ages, is that everything, being and symbol is
> literally You.

and it is equally not-you.

josh

Wisa asks: When all is One, out of the One, lives in the Mind of One as
the One lives in you...When all illusion is there for you to learn your
true Identity through experiences. as
lessons... when there is no "other" and that is why you do unto others
as you would unto yourself...How can anything, person, being, symbol of
anything in this world not be you? That is the lesson. The ladder of
metals is you on you way up. You are a process. Alchemical processes
are you as you transcend yourself...and move along on the wheel. Name
it. It's you or some aspect of yourself whether it is a dominant or not
seen aspect of you that you can or can't recognize. Can you recognize
that?.

Fri Apr 05 11:30:25 1996
Subject: 0604 Gold again

Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:02:25 -0500
From: photopro

Alchemy forum writes:
> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:38:10 -0500
> Subject: Gold

> You know: You can make physical gold but it won't stay in that
> form,

could you clarify this statement please?

if it was gold once and became something else, spontaneously as it
were, it doesn't really meet the definition of 'gold', or at least so
it seems to me.

> while you can become gold and that is eternal. Wisa

yes, outward direction and inward direction. but is there a real
difference, ultimately?

some work upon themselves, some work upon the world, some work upon
both.

Joshua - MY statement was made upon a statement that was made to me by
a master teacher who was aware that alchemists had actually been
successful, at some historical points in so-called time, in turning
lead to gold. Physically successful! But he also stated that the
physical form did not stay gold (hold) and therefore was not materially
valuable for one who was searching for material success. Whereas if a
person transforms into a Being of Gold. A touchstone so-called, that is
eternal! That Being has/is the Elixar of LIfe. I do agree with all
your wise comments. Wisa

Fri Apr 05 11:30:33 1996
Subject: 0605 Question - law of reciprocal action

Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:06:56 -0500
From: photopro

Is the law of reciprocal action, that many in this forum are referring
to, what I call the law of compensation? That is balance restored in
the universe.

Fri Apr 05 11:30:41 1996
Subject: 0606 Causality, karma and gender

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 04 Apr 96 17:46:02 EST

Petra wrote:
>The only "danger" lies in the RECIPROCAL ACTION of what oneself has put into
the world!!! No one can escape this action! Not Beat Krummenacher's INTELLECTUAL
ACROBATICS can change the Cosmic Law of Reciprocal Action which carry DIVINE
JUSTICE from the beginning of time, --- but by degree, the effects may be
weakened, if a violent man in his heart has, in the meantime, become a
SAMARITER, and the murderer a SAINT.<

All that is correct and a more religiously or philosophically oriented
description of two of the hermetical axioms:

Naturally a relationship exists between world and men. The law of karma
emphasizes, that each action will have reactions as a consequence. While I spoke
in my message about cause and effect, Petra spoke in her remark - from
hermetical view - more about a process, which is to be associated with the
principle of gender. The law of causality results in the effect, that everything
what exists is assumed to laws. That is to say utilized on karma: There are
laws, which give a structure to karmic events in the hidden. Karma will manifest
on the most different levels according to certain patterns.

Against it the principle of gender says (Kybalion): "Gender is in everything;
everything has its Masculine and Feminine Principles; Gender manifests on all
planes."

The principle of causality and the principle of gender are two different laws.
One may not mix or confuse the one with the other. Let us take again the
formulation >violence for violence, murder for murder...<, so the difference can
be made plain:

Principle of causality: It describes - in the physical world - a sequence of all
events. The sequence physically manifests as time or thermodynamically as
entropy. To this principle also the different legalities of all passages between
different states of existence are to be calculated: It describes the ways, on
which a murder CAN lead to a murder.

Principle of gender: This principle is easiest to understand remembering the
physical 'actio = reactio'. It is the inherent attractive and dissipative power
of space and time between separate bodies etc... Example: If the sun attracts
the earth, so also the earth simultaneously attracts the sun. The deeper cause
of the law of gravity lies in this interaction, which the hermetics generally
called gender. The concealed working principle of gender is therefore the basis
of laws, which regulate the future (time) or informative and/or proper (entropy)
events, described by the law of causality. The principle of gender itself is the
cause of an effect, which is the principle of causality. Murder and murder -
causal joined with the former - are reciprocally tied up.

With my critical remark on the use of turns like >violence for violence, murder
for murder...< I only wanted to emphasize, that the semantic meaning must be
exactly considered and understood. While the statement suggests to assume a
murder imperatively necessitate a second, in fact this is not the case. For not
only one of both mentioned hermetical axiom works in this statement, but both.

A murder and a murder causally connected with the former stand to each other in
a comparable proportion like earth and moon from gravitational view. An
invisible band of the gender karmically joins murderers and victims. This is the
deeper energetic reason, why karmic connections exist. How will run down events
in reference to the variable time and entropy, however is subject to the
principle of causality, which describes the complex laws of the interaction.
Murder thus CAN generate murder, murder is however NO imperative consequence of
murder.

I hope having more clearly expressed with it what I wanted to mediate. I wanted
warn against ethical demands of such a formulation. I wanted warn against an
appraisal, which then enters, if one means murder must generate murder. With
this opinion we are again in the class of good and evil and classify conditions.
It is better to recognize, that murder must not imperatively generate murder. It
is open the door for a change, which frees from the imperative bands of (more
karmic) connections.

And another thing: Always if I put in question or critically illuminate
something - from my view! -, so it is never personally meant. I would like to
speak about a matter. For if we accustom ourselves self-critically and
critically to reflect events, we can advance on the way for mental rebirth, the
'unio mystica' of the alchemists.

The law of causality says, that this way is subject to just as laws, as we know
them from physics. Magic, inner and outer alchemy can actually scientifically be
explored. If we know the laws, we learn to utilize them. And earlier miracles
become to nothing but events of up to now unrecognized or misunderstood laws.
Magic becomes science! An alchemist is no dreamer or magician. An alchemist is a
critically thinking man, whose field of research searches to include everything
existing.

Lapis

PS: Petra's citation of 'THE GRAIL MESSAGE IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH' by Abd-ru-shin
(2. April) is a very good example how somebody can confuse and mix the law of
causality with the principle of gender.

Fri Apr 05 11:30:50 1996
Subject: 0607 Weiser Books

From: Clark Stillman
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:07:39 -0800

Charla,
I used to work in Weiser's in the 70's [shudder, how long ago]. Now
they are my distributor for an internet occult and metaphysical store.
Please visit us at http://www.AccessNewAge,com. We have over 2000
titles in all subjects, including alchemy, kabbalah, magic(k), etc.
Regards,
Clark Stillman

***********************************************************************
Access:New Age

All Things--Esoteric and Spiritual, Occult and Metaphysical--All Things

http://www.AccessNewAge.com
***********************************************************************

Fri Apr 05 12:12:35 1996
Subject: Help !! Need new Web site!!!

My Internet provider Colloquium have now increased their pricing for Web space, and I doubt if I can afford the new charges.

Originally they set up my site at a rental cost of 50 UK pounds (about $80) PER YEAR for each 5 megabytes of space. At the moment I have 15 megabtyes allocated to me. I can of course quite easily cover these costs out of my own pocket.

In the last few weeks, however, they have reassessed their pricing structure and have set a new price of 35 UK pounds (about $60) PER MONTH !!! for 5 megabytes. This is 400 UK pounds (about $600) per year for each 5 megabytes.

I find I cannot cover the new costs as the present 15 megabytes will cost me 1200 UK pounds (about $1800) per year and I will need much more space than this in the longer term as the site develops.

Can any one help find me cheap or possibly free space on a server? There must be an academic site which would be able to host the alchemy virtual library. I would expect the Alchemy web site would grow to 30 megabytes by the end of this year and add 15-20 megabytes each subsequent year.

With my best wishes,

Adam McLean

Fri Apr 05 22:10:07 1996
Subject: 0608 Gold

From: joshua geller
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 08:09:49 -0800

On Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:09:45 -0600 George Randall Leake III writes:

> >From: joshua geller
> >some work upon themselves, some work upon the world, some work upon
> >both.

> *or to put another way "some are born great, some achieve greatness, and
> some have greatness thrust upon em!"

of course the vast majority of people work neither upon the world nor
upon themselves, but sort of stumble from birth to death and pass as
if they had never been.

josh

Fri Apr 05 22:10:17 1996
Subject: 0609 Tangents in

From: joshua geller
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 08:14:26 -0800

On Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:49:02 -0500 photopro writes:

> Wisa asks: When all is One, out of the One, lives in the Mind of One as
> the One lives in you...When all illusion is there for you to learn your
> true Identity through experiences.

this is only one way of looking at it.

josh

Fri Apr 05 22:10:26 1996
Subject: 0610 Cosmic laws, mind and intuition

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 05 Apr 96 11:20:51 EST

Petra wrote:
>THE COSMIC LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION = CAUSE AND EFFECT, THE LAW OF
REPERCUSSION<.

I would like to emphasize only, that the equals sign does not be correct in this
assertion. The law of interaction is NOT identical with the law of causality!
Why no equality exists between both laws, I have described in my last message
(606).

Rawn wonderfully described the obtuseness of the rational formulations of cosmic
laws by the 'Kybalion'. It is right, that the human mind only can record
connections, in that it picks individual things out of the endless plenty of the
being and it logically ties them with each other. The whole can never be
comprehensively described with it. Nevertheless the human mind is of eminent
importance: It altogether helps us to recognize connections.

Dear Rawn, how would it be now, if it be successful to expand the abilities of
the human mind in a way, that it understandingly includes always larger spheres
of the being? Then one could arrive at a penetrating understanding of the
connection of complex things, which formerly incoherently laid before one.

Intuitive recording of complex connections can be regarded than as a higher form
of the mind. We spontaneously know that something is. And because the analysis
of the mind lies concealed in the intuitive knowledge, we can subsequently
logically explain, why an intuitive knowledge is right (for us). That the
attempt to logically and rationally explain the complexly recognized only is a
reflection of the real experience naturally is clear. But only a such reduction
on essential aspects allows us to wake in other people interest and
understanding to perhaps once differently consider certain things. For instance
to personally begin with alchemical practice.

This is only a stimulation to consider an unaccustomed possibility for
development of the mind.

Lapis

Fri Apr 05 22:10:37 1996
Subject: 0611 Law of Compensation?Reciprocal Action

Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:56:16 -0500
From: photopro

> THE COSMIC LAW OF
>RECIPROCAL ACTION = CAUSE AND EFFECT, THE LAW OF REPERCUSSION.

Below is a meditative essay I wrote that quotes a shortened version of Vero> outlining of The Law of Compenstaion. This seems to be what members of the Alchemy Forum refer to as Reciprocal Action. I have found this outline very useful. I have condensed

RHYTHM - EVERYTHING IN MOTION- CONTINUAL EBB AND FLOW
The Law Of Compensation - The Law of Neutralization

"Do unto others as you would do unto thyself." There is no other.

You are very important and your claim of Identity and what you do or
don�t do or say or think is very important and causal. What you put out ,
comes back sometimes in strange and unrecognized ways!
Below is a shortened resume consisting mainly of quotes, as put forward
in some of the Hierophant Teachings of Vero. We must understand this
principle in order to work it rightly.

Principles of Compensation:

"Man must make every dealing with another being a symbolic encounter
between himself and the True Self through the so-called "other". A hatred
or attack on another is a slash at Your Self:..."
"We must give value in exchange for value." ( No
accommodations/rationalizations -pay the price.)
"We must sort out real hardship,which is very occasional, from imagined
and paranoid hardship, and we must use this, especially in our dealings
with fellow mystics, to work through these illusions .........." "Pay
now, and you honor yourself ......."
"True charity is earned from God; it is not whimsically or defensively or
seductively dispensed by fearful man. Take what is unjust, for whatever
reason, and the Law of Universal Compensation called Karma will so
rebalance the life that you will pay your debts ten times over in other
ways if you seek to escape them initially."
"When someone gives a gift, that fact of "gift" which you are free to
refuse, does not discharge the obligation of compensation. If not to the
giver, then to others in kind and in like measure of sacrifice, you become
a debtor, who must freely pay and serve others or experience the
inevitable backswing of the Law of Compensation. in the world of
circumstance. Especially in your dealings with fellow workers of a
mystical path, justice in compensation is swift, sure and occasionally
terrible: for the purpose of the event is to learn that the fears of loss
are the enemy and avoidance is impossible since merely the arena of
experience and payment shifts but never the lesson nor the debt. Never."
"When one asks another for accommodation in payment of a debt justly owed
for service and value, one asks another to act as a lender, as a
creditor..." "that allowance does not eliminate another and greater debt
thus created by so imposing upon the generosity or fear of another, a debt
which you will pay in time by having to endure a hard imposition of this
sort yourself."
"A mystic above all other people, must know the value of what he gives,
and exchange values for what he receives. Any avoidance of the Laws of
Compensation creates very powerful imbalances in a life, and that
compensation will be paid to the universe ten-fold and when you are least
anxious to pay it." * VERO

RHYTHM THE DANCE OF LIFE THE DANCE ETERNAL
The Music of the Stars, the Universe. The ebb and flow of the tides. Day
and night. Hot and cold. In and out, up and down. Rich and poor, back and
forth ...The pendulum swings unerringly and eternally. The only way out is
to get above the swing and there in balance watch as it swings below you.

Who must you be to sit "up there?" Someone who has come to know
Universal Principle by the increase of perspective and Identity of the
Self. Someone who gathers wisdom in a pervading surround and someone who
cares to establish who they were into a transcendental persona who, in
balance, is a receptor for the Primal Will To Good. Never can it be your
"little will" that transcends humanity and unites all into One, but "Thy
Will be Done"..through you for The Everlasting Glory of All. Now some of
this sounds heavy, ponderous, weighty and solemn. This need not be so.
Perspective is all and humor pervades and conquers the darkest corners of
mans nature and therefore the world and nature herself, for what is the
nature of Nature anyway if all is one and this is your story????

So how you see it is how it is. Shakespeare states, in The Tempest, that
it�s not what happens but "Its how you take the blow..." Also being
causal, whether you know it or not, it�s once again - your story.

A discrepancy? i.e. when a young innocent infant is born into tragic
circumstances? Cry and torment as you may, is it possible to conceive that
a Soul selects its own parents and the degree of "pressure" to be born
into, in order to transcend this birthing- this moment of conscious life -
and more to have a great strong and deep "spring" off the diving board of
embodied life. When you are in the nadir, the pits - you can not go down
but only up or into non -existence. Oblivion!

Also, conceive that if there is no real time in the ultimate "True Value
Universe", Man can be undergoing all experiences, all lifetimes,
rebirths, all birthing of the self forward again simultaneously - not
progressively. Although most minds find "successive progression" a
convenient reference toward understanding this concept in terms they are
able to. And conceive that within THE MIND, beyond your present knowledge
of how its intricacies work, you can "select" the pathway while still
having the "destiny" to undergo all there is - one way or the other. So
Meditative reconciliation may not be ruled out for that is how a Seer
will not be given more than he/she can bear . Yet, once again we come to
Rhythm working through Polarity.
The best, the worst until you can know there is another way to do it. To
change yourself, climb The Tree of Life, raise consciousness on the
planes (the ladder of metals). Oh, you don�t have to know everything-where
you are, how to do it specifically You do have to have a "true heart", to
desire it, strive to learn the mysteries from a trusted teacher and your
own interior quest for Truth of the matter, the Universe and for the
TRUTH PRINCIPLES THAT RUN THE UNIVERSE. Find them by exploring the true
nature of yourself and the meaning of Who You Are, and thus understand the
nature of All by The Law of Correspondence. "As above, so below. As below,
so above.." Remember that unless you put these principles into your life,
all the reading and knowledge and even understanding will not get you over
the threshold into Infinity with consciousness. Recall Who You Are and
say; "I have Immortal yearnings..." Do it! Go for it!

There is a MEMORY OF PERFECTION within you that once awakened, establishes
an imperative in the blood. It�s a whirl of a ride and rhythm makes it
very interesting.

Fri Apr 05 22:10:47 1996
Subject: 0612 Kerotakis

From: Jfruther
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:56:12 -0500

>Have you take a look in Forbes' classic *A short history of the art of
>distillation*, reedited by Brill.?
>Claude Gagnon

Thanks, for the information, are there any bibliographic information
available for this book?

V.I.T.R.I.O.L.

Sat Apr 06 11:47:43 1996
Subject: 0613 Weiser Books

From: dpriver
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:09:44 -0800

For the West Coast Crowd:

Many of Weiser's titles carried at 310-451-1224 in Los Angeles.

Sat Apr 06 11:47:59 1996
Subject: 0614 Question - law of reciprocal action

From: Rawn Clark
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 15:42:24 -0500

In a message dated 96-04-05 07:32:30 EST, you write:

>From: photopro
>
>Is the law of reciprocal action, that many in this forum are referring
>to, what I call the law of compensation? That is balance restored in
>the universe.

Perhaps "a Universe in balance" would be a more complete phrasing.
At no point is the Universe "out" of balance, so there is not a
"resoration", per se...though it may seem that way to our limited
human perspective.

This is a very important point: As physical human beings, our
perspective is limited. Yet we also have the power to transcend
these physical limitations and limitlessly broaden our perspectives.
At the physical level, our path to understanding is through singularity
of focus. We Solve' the Infinite into finite enough chunks for our
limited brains to handle. So we humans create Laws to define our
Universe, as a way of grasping hold of the Un-graspable Infinite.
Each of these Laws is both true and un-true, when considered in
relation to the Infinite Whole; but at this physical level, they provide
us with a proven key to un-lock the seeming chaos.

:) Rawn Clark
5 Apr 96

Sat Apr 06 11:48:10 1996
Subject: 0615 Kerotakis

From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:41:36 -0600

>From: Jfruther
>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:56:12 -0500
>
>
>>Have you take a look in Forbes' classic *A short history of the art of
>>distillation*, reedited by Brill.?
>>Claude Gagnon
>
>Thanks, for the information, are there any bibliographic information
>available for this book?

*from the ut online catalog:

AUTHOR: Forbes, R. J. (Robert James), 1900-
TITLE: Short history of the art of distillation from the beginnings
up to the death of Cellier Blumenthal.
PUBLISHED: Leiden, Brill, 1948.
DESCRIPTION: 405 p. illus., maps. 25 cm.
NOTES: Bibliography: p. (363)-396.
SUBJECTS: Distillation--History.
OTHER TITLES: Art of distillation.
OCLC NUMBER: 2606668

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 taliesin@mail.utexas.edu

"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a
child."
-Cicero
"Oh age! oh letters! It is a joy to be alive!...Woe to you, barbarians!"
-Ulrich von Hutten, 1518, Poet Laureate of the German Empire

Sat Apr 06 11:48:19 1996
Subject: 0616 The Law of Reciprocal Action

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:35:31 GMT

If a father goes ahead and arranges a marriage for his son or daughter, and
the son or daughter despised the chosen one, and the doctrinated father,
loyal to the old man-made traditions, and even has financial motives,
insists on the marriage, and even forces his son or daughter by their
livelyhood to yield to such a marriage,....then this same father will be
born to the SAME KIND of doctrinated father in his next life, who will
arrange his own marriage. And his father chooses a woman he does not love,
and under the threat of being disinherited he gives in and marries her.
Can you imagine the misery living in a marriage without love & respect? Far
from the "Chemical Wedding" , which is a marriage MADE IN HEAVEN (of the Soul)?
After having had to experience the sadness of a marriage without the soul,
do you think this father will go ahead again, and arrange a marriage for his
own son or daughter?
If he does he will burden himself with an unending KARMA from generation to
generation. But he also can redeem himself by having learned from his
unhappy marriage, and by not forcing the next generation into such despair.

This is how the LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION works in the lives of men. Can you
fathom the wisdom?
---
Petra Christiane Gottlieb
petrag@iaccess.com.au
---
WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!

Sun Apr 07 10:43:30 1996
Subject: 0617 Red Earth

From: CARRAI FRANCO
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:08:17 +0200

>al4302 asked to Pat Zalewski

>Have you considered cinnabar?

The so-called Way of Cinnabar has been thaugt by the French alchemist Roger
Caro who lived in South France and died few years ago.
Roger Caro headed a Gnostic 'Catholic' Curch and the F. A. A. R .C. (the Elder Brothers of the Ancient Rosy Cross), a Rosicrucian Fellowship asserting to keep ancient documents
testifying its Medieval origins.
Under the nom-de-plume of Kamala-Jnana, Caro wrote some books about the
Cinnabar Way:
- DICTIONNAIRE DE PHILOSOPHIE ALCHIMIQUE (enriched with photographies of
different stages of Great Work), Editions G. Charlet - Argentiere (H.S.) 1961
- CONCORDANCES ALCHIMIQUES and, with some discipules, PLEIADE
ALCHIMIQUE.(available at the time only at : Roger Caro, Saint-Cyr-sur Mer).

An external corpus of F. A. A. R .C., the COLLEGIALE AL - KIMIA, has
transmitted for some years the teachings of this Way to a quite large group of discipules, mostly in France.

The Cinnabar Way begins from the separation, performed in a peculiar way,
of the three composants of Cinnabar and insists strongly on the special Salt-Fire required and on the use of two other kind of natural Fires.
The Sulphur obtained in this first separation should have a red colour, not
the normal yellow.
The Cinnabar Way comprehends a dry way and a humid way: the difference has
to be found in the status of the Salt-Fire producing different temperatures
and manipulation times. In both ways, the manipulations should proceed with
great cautions.

By the apparent simplicity of the proceeds and the limited means required,
this Way seems to be close to the ''Way for the poor people'', often recalled in the classical texts.

Manfred

Sun Apr 07 10:43:37 1996
Subject: 0618 The Law of Reciprocal Action

From: OISPEGGY
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 1996 22:31:26 -0500 (EST)

Petra:
>If a father goes ahead and arranges a marriage for his son or daughter, and
>the son or daughter despised the chosen one, and the doctrinated father,
>loyal to the old man-made traditions, and even has financial motives,
>insists on the marriage, and even forces his son or daughter by their
>livelyhood to yield to such a marriage,....then this same father will be
...

>This is how the LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION works in the lives of men. Can you
>fathom the wisdom?

I do not believe an anything happening in such a neat fashion.
My universe is far messier and a lot more is left to chance. Your
insistence that things are as you say sounds like a lot of
unsubstantiated dogma to me.

Also, no one has yet given specific examples about how exactly they
make decisions to do, or not to do something, based on Karma.

- Peggy -

Mon Apr 08 13:07:47 1996
Subject: 0619 Law of Reciprocal Action

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:51:32 GMT

Peggy,
It was not a dogma, just an example of how the Law could take effect.

---
Petra Christiane Gottlieb
petrag@iaccess.com.au
---
WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!

Mon Apr 08 13:07:56 1996
Subject: 0620 TV Programme

From: Mark Bennett
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 13:36:19 +0000

Hello out there,

A while back I posted that the Royal Society lecture series given between
Christmass and New Year was dedicated to mineral processes and was of
considerable interest to alchemists if not in it's pure information sense,
then as a catalyst of processes.

It's now repeating for five days on BBC2 about noon-ish for anyone within
the UK Holland/Europe who can pick it up. - Starts monday.

The series is aimed at kids and has lots of fun demonstrations.

Needless to say I'll be taping them all.

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.--Frank Zappa

Mon Apr 08 13:08:06 1996
Subject: 0621 The Law of Reciprocal Action

From: Clark Stillman
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 07:44:24 -0700

You wrote:
>

>
>Also, no one has yet given specific examples about how exactly they
>make decisions to do, or not to do something, based on Karma.
>
>- Peggy -

Friends:

From my reading of the Bhagavad Gita, action performed free from the
desire for results produces no residual results, i.e., karma. Our
understanding of karma is somewhat less than the scope of meaning the
Gita and Upanisads seem to indicate.

Karma can be translated as "work" and/or "action". It essentially has
to do with activity [it's from the root kr]. The point the Vedantists,
particularly the Advitists, are indicating is that action performed
free from "desire" is the only action that frees us from karma because
such an action has no residual, unfulfilled aspect. That is, an action
beformed for a result, instead of for its own sake, is actually
performed for the result and thus must continue to roll forward until
the result reaches its conclusion. Since one desire usually leads to
another, no conclusion is reached.

Thus a decision to do/not do something is not necessarily based on an
intellectual understanding of karma, but rather on being in the moment,
free from desire for a particular/special/certain result, and acting
according to what is seen as the need in that moment, while free from
the desires that would color the action.

Not my every day mode of action, that's for sure.

Clark Stillman
http://www.AccessNewAge.com

Mon Apr 08 13:08:16 1996
Subject: 0622 Red Earth

From: al4302
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:46:33 +0100

At 11:14 07/04/96 +0000, you wrote:
>From: CARRAI FRANCO
>Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:08:17 +0200
>
>
>>al4302 asked to Pat Zalewski
>
>>Have you considered cinnabar?
>
>The so-called Way of Cinnabar has been thaugt by the French alchemist Roger
>Caro who lived in South France and died few years ago.
>Roger Caro headed a Gnostic 'Catholic' Curch and the F. A. A. R .C. (the
>Elder Brothers of the Ancient Rosy Cross), a Rosicrucian Fellowship
>asserting to keep ancient documents
>testifying its Medieval origins.
>Under the nom-de-plume of Kamala-Jnana, Caro wrote some books about the
>Cinnabar Way:
........

>Manfred

Some say that cinabar is the sorce of the Philosophers dew. In the
Southwest of Franch where this ore is common it has been noted that
at a certain time of the year the ore seems to sweat.

Mon Apr 08 13:08:41 1996
Subject: 0623 The thought/desire comes up

Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 15:08:22 -0400
From: photopro

What thoughts, desires come up in our mind are not what matters FOR
THEY WILL COME UP. It is what we do or don't do with those thoughts,
desires, impulses, compulsions etc. that establish our Identity in this
universe. Perspective, Identity are tremendously important. All
important. This is not judgement nor moral based-this is a statement
of WHO I/YOU AM/ARE.

Mon Apr 08 13:08:54 1996
Subject: 0624 The Law of Reciprocal Action

From: RawnClark
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 15:52:00 -0400

In a message dated 96-04-07 07:47:48 EDT, you write:

>Also, no one has yet given specific examples about how exactly they
>make decisions to do, or not to do something, based on Karma.
>
>- Peggy -
>
>

Aye, and there's the rub! The application of these Laws can be a tricky
business, especially it seems, as concerns one's personal "karma". The key
question to ask oneself when attempting to apply these Laws is: "Why?" For
instance: To what end am I a good person in the world? Is it simply the way
I am? Or is it all an effort to manipulate my karma? The latter is
manipulation, with all its negative shades, no matter how one justifies it,
and will usually lead to a viscious circle of karmic indebtedness instead of
a mitigation. Yet this latter, is how most view the process -- i.e. If I do
good things, good things will be done to me. While this is an essential
truism (that good nets good), when it is held up as a "reward" for "doing
good" however, it debases to greed and rate-of-exchange. Motivation is the
ingredient we bring to these Laws whenever we employ them, and it inexorably
shades our experience of them. This is one reason why "Know Thyself" is
repeated over and over and over again.

In my personal experience, there are many levels of karma. I have found none
of them to be avoidable (and there are a couple of bits I'd REALLY like to
avoid); but many of them are completely transformable by the attitude I carry
with me as I encounter them (oddly enough, this is escpecially true of those
bits I'd like most to avoid...). This is where I find the greatest
possibility for creative input. My response to my karma, allows me to
sometimes alter the *way* in which it expresses itself in my life, but not
the fact that it *will* express itself. I find this impossible to accurately
express in words...

The question of "Why?", is a moral one, to which we must each craft our own
answer -- I mean no moral judgements of others in my statements here, but
only to raise these questions, and to hopefully answer Peggy's question in
part.

:) Rawn Clark
7 Apr 96

PS: Okay, here's a practical example for you Peggy: I know my "Car-ma" is
tenuous, so I'm taking my vacation (a drive of several hundred miles)
*before* Mercury goes retrograde. ;-) My poor car will probably phart once
and fall apart, after Merc retro's, but at least it'll be at home, and I'll
have had my trip! Thats the plan at least...

Mon Apr 08 13:09:22 1996
Subject: 0625 Fermentation -The Boil-up

Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 01:33:37 -0400
Subject: Fermentation-The Boil- up
From: photopro

Ah, the experience of the boil-up. How many of us know full well the
times that everything explodes in our faces and it becomes hard to
describe how many things can go wrong and come to the surface at one
time? Can one comprehend the function of such happenings? Where is the
good in this experience? Of course, we have to take care of things as
best as we are able so as not to go under, succumb or give up become
paralyzed and sink in the quick sand or turn into an aggressive raving
maniac or some such creature.

The boil-up =s the potency of the Work in body, mind and circumstances.
Capricorn presents an opportunity for an antidote to bondage which is
levity/mirth.

Fermentation is change coming about and that change will involve the
Corporeal Intelligence. A chemical change takes place in the blood -
Alteration is occuring. It is a time of excitement - seething
aliveness. It is time to devote oneself to the Truth and the Work which
is meditation and recollection and application of the extracted
principles into your everyday life. It is a time for constant invention
("I can" - brings rewards of increased power as the old personality
disintegrates and a new Persona (regenerated personality) is brought
forth (birthed.)
Got goose pimples, boils, erruptions, scales???? The mantle of skin is
a body part associated with this stage of Alchemy!
Wisa

Mon Apr 08 13:09:33 1996
Subject: 0626 The Law of Reciprocal Action

From: KEEPERH2O
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 02:41:24 -0400

Petra states:
>If a father goes ahead and arranges a marriage for his son or daughter, and
the son or daughter despised the chosen one, and the doctrinated father,
loyal to the old man-made traditions, and even has financial motives, insists
on the marriage, and even forces his son or daughter by their livelyhood to
yield to such a marriage,....then this same father will be <
...

>This is how the LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION works in the lives of men. Can you
fathom the wisdom?<

To which Peggy responds:

>I do not believe an anything happening in such a neat fashion. My universe
is far messier and a lot more is left to chance. Your insistence that things
are as you say sounds like a lot of unsubstantiated dogma to me.

>Also, no one has yet given specific examples about how exactly they make
decisions to do, or not to do something, based on Karma.<

My sense of it goes something like this: I once worked as a servant for a
very wealthy man. He was also an exceedingly selfish and stingy one. A
friend of mine, exasperated with this man's lack of generousity once
exclaimed, "When Mr. ----- dies, he is going to be reborn as the poorest
wretch in Calcutta!"

"No," I said, "that is not how it works. It is more likely he will be reborn
even wealthier than before."

Recall that Karma has much to do with attachment. We must learn the lesson
from within of the source of the issue and not outside of it. That is why
our work on ourselves is so difficult. If we fail to appreciate this, at
best, we can only shadowbox.
It also better explains why the same faces of evil have such a perpetual
existance in the material world.

Keeper

Tue Apr 09 08:15:32 1996
Subject: 0627 alchemical music

From: Coulombe Patrice
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 20:05:50 -0400 (EDT)

I would like to thank all those who answered me about alchemical music
by the forum or by a private e-mail. I have noted all your references and
reflexions.

First of all, I want to say my difficulties to express myself in
english. So, please be indulgent about my kiddy speaking...

I have found a great latin version of Atalanta fugiens but my
deception came when I saw these old fashioned scores with separated
voices (now we superpose them). So, I am still looking for the modern
Goldwin edition.

I have never found any recording. A recorded version of these curious
fugues could be very helpful to understand the old scores. If Mr.Arnold,
Mr.Merritt or someone else could give me a reference about that, I would
be sincerly reconnaissant.

As some recommended me, I have analysed some of Bach's preludes and
fugues and found some golden proportions (1.61...). The alchemical
references are yet too occult for me.

As Mr.Di Gravio had supposed, Edgar Varese made a lot of alchemical
references in his works. He prefaced the "Arcana" score with the
following quotation from the "HERMETIC ASTRONOMY" of Paracelsus:"One star
exists higher than all the rest. This is the apocalyptic star. The second
star is that Of the ascendant. the third is that of the elements-of these
there are four, So that six stars are established. Besides there is still
another star, imagination, which begets a new star and a new heaven.
PARACELSUS THE GREAT, MONARCH OF ARCANA".

After a short analysis of the score, I found a kind of Passacaglia
form: a theme of eleven notes passing through different moods and
transformations. It is a kind of transfiguration of the theme. I think
that confirms your point of view, Mr.Di Gravio.

Now, I would like to explain the purpose of my research. In 1994, I
composed a piece for six flutes. My challenge was to unite two opposite
materials, both harmonic and melodic. After the acheived, I was stupefied
by the results: the begining sounds like twoforces fighting calmly one
against the other in a chaos (micropolyphonic rythms). Gradualy, the
second part takes place. In this part, the two materials seem to melt
together while trying to keep their own pole. After crossing others
parts, the two materials loose their personalities and are transformed in
the chord of C 9th. I was very suprised to reconize in this chord the
firsts 9 harmonics of the harmonic serie (C,C,G,C,E,G,Bb,C,D). I
interpret it this way: the two opposite, by their fight and
reconciliation, Have been melted in the pure nature of sound. Do I have
to say that I never tought these things when I composed the work. I found
the coincidence quite strange and a friend told me the relation of this
experience with alchemy and "synchronicity"(C.G.Jung & M.L. Von Franz)

Also, when I composed this piece, I had the great feeling of being
somebody new. And this piece (called "Eupraxia") was my first public
success. (For those who stay near of Montreal, I will be conducting it on
Tuesday, April 9th at 8:00p.m. at the music faculty of University of
Montreal)

So, since this experience, I have tried to learn more about alchemy
and to find a convincing way to compose music from alchemical lore. I
believe that alchemy is not only a philosophy but really a research
laboratory; but, most of all, alchemy is a way to transfigure oneself in
one's endeavor. I am musician. I am doing music. It is my way to learn
more about me and to accomplish my indiviuation. Alchemy is the way I
choosed to mix my spirituality with my art and when I am doing
"alchemical music", I feel the repecutions in my soul. I know, it is a
kind of "profane" alchemy, but insulting the Royal Art is not my aim.
Rather, I want to know if there a place for music in alchemy. I would
like to know your position about art in alchemy.

Sincerly and fraternaly
Patrice Coulombe
coulomp@ere.umontreal.ca
(a web page about my music
is now at work)

Tue Apr 09 08:15:41 1996
Subject: 0628 Hermetic Doctrine

Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 22:50:52 -0400
From: photopro

My Meditation on
Hermetic doctrine

"INFINITE AND INCOMPREHENSIBLE ONE."
"SPIRIT." "INFINITE LIVING MIND."

THINK NOW, of an out of the ordinary defination of ENERGY AND FORCE,
not as the source of the ALMIGHTY MIND, but INTELLIGENCE OF THE
ABSOLUTE, THE ULTIMATE ONE.

There is only ONE. That ONE is ALL AND EVERYTHING. That ONE is
NO-"THING". That ONE is Immutable, Immortal, Eternal, Infinite. That
ONE is all so-called time/place/space, all-Power, all Presence, all
knowing That ONE is the TrueReality. Therefore does that ONE contain
and is "All the Power (Force) thatever was, will be, and is here now.
That is, within and as, that ONE ULTIMATE BEING!

DIVINE MIND . An INTELLIGENCE beyond our present ability to even
imagine it and the scope of it. Yet, we can only do the best we can at
any moment to be in communion with our HIGHEST SELF!

Earth/Matter is the field of lessons. Experience in matter, an
opportunity to advance in knowing who we truly are. At the highest
consciousness of transcendental man. matter does not matter!

Unity brings a state of simplicity. Return to it. Keep no personal
baggage ofmateriality, memories, husks, pulls, fears, rationalizations,
relaticns, humanitywith self-conscious distractions. Return to balance,
reconciliation, forgiveness absolute faith in THE TRUE SELF and
fulfillment of a wondrous kind will fill and reign in your heart.

IMAGE. Are we but an image, a reflection in and of THAT GREATEST MIND?
Why then do we seem so real to ourselves? Why do we have to go through
illusion? Through tests? Through the impossible to discover the "true
story"? Why were we put "out", not knowing we were really "in?" Did
that GREATEST ULTIMATE BEING have a desire for our existence? What is
our purpose? -We can only guess and many thoughtshave expressed the
possibilities. Reflection? GOD relecting on his own nature by putting
it out there in multiples? A game? To exercise THE MIND-keep it
interesting/configure the pieces of a giant picture puzzle whose
wholeness isgreater than the sum of it's parts? Company? Humanity a
separated whole withthe seeming individual "choice" of returning. This
election made able, perhaps by finding that their identity was a
"Being" IN, BUT SEEMINGLY OUT OF THE MIND OF GOD. To discover that
they/he/she/you/I/we have the potential TO RETURN BACKINTO SHARED
CONSCIOUSNESS WITH THE MIND OF GOD. THAT TRANSCENDENTAL MAN HAS THE
POTENTIAL TO BE ONE WITH, AT-ONE-MENT WITH AND AS THAT INFINITE LIVING
MIND. SPIRIT ITSELF!!!

What is really real??? I AM.

WISA

Tue Apr 09 08:15:55 1996
Subject: 0629 Karma (Cause-n-Effect) and Etc.

From: Logodox
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 21:56:11 -0500

Possily some salient Questions with the purpose of dispelling ipse dixits:

What is the vehicle of Karma ?

Is Karma individualized; are we individualized (IN ACTUALITY) ?

Can Karma be self-regulating by a portion of our own being ?
If so what prevents psychopaths from escaping Karma ?

Esoteric considerations...

If time/space (and all of time's arrows at macroscopic level) are actually
a projection of human "meaning" then it follows that past/future are also
illusory and it then begs the question do we incarnate "out-of-time" sequence ?

All of the perfectly "BALANCED" laws which man attempts to approximate in
his sciences seem to be nearly universal in their scope and INDEPENDENT of
his will and/or perception of them. This does not include ideas in the
"MENTAL" sphere. The utility and constructiveness of these laws lie exactly
in that universality...

There probably exists a causal attachment to a soul (or to the universal
soul) and laws regulating the distribution and cycling of karmic sequences.
The One
who said "fok karma" is showing an extreme immaturity and/or arrogance and
insolence which belies little understanding.

For those well read enough, it is obvious that this world we live in
(largely a mental creation on our part) can be neither totally deterministic
nor totally random, AND NOT A SIMPLE COMBINATION OF THE TWO! and nobody has
figured it out yet, nobody! (at least not in a formal communicable way in
finite language).

Read the Kybalion a few years ago. Some interesting and nearly useless
observations (like a lot of stuff from the golden dawn) and Crowley. For
those who think him accomplished, oh-well, grow up. Much of his MAGICK was
self-deception and deception of other fools! In spite of his esoteric
leanings and accomplishments, his left-hand path (exagerration of self) lead
to expulsion (further than already in Garden-of-Eden allegory) from the One.

An example illustrating disdain with the Kyballion: One can say there
exists only 1 thing in the Material Universe (energy). It exists in 2 forms
(bound and transverse). One could further say that only 1 thing ever
happens in the materialistic Universe (radiative emission and radiative
absorption). These statements may be all true, but what can You do with
them ? How can You benefit oneself or others with this ? Same with Kyballion.

For those early in the search for TRUTH. Beware, the vast majority of books
on "psychic" or enlightened development are written by people who DON'T KNOW
WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. At least Blavatsky wrote some highly
interesting books as a result of her channeling. Has Ramtha done the same ?

Comments towards the Golden Dawn are not meant to reflect on the excellence
of many of it's members and their excellent writings (REGARDIE).

For those willing to work hard and think hard for learning, read Plotinus,
Atwood, and Eckartshausen. Disregard most of the last 3 centuries of
philosophy since its mostly "sophistry".

Chances are, there's only 1 being in this universe. Start from there and
You will develop the rest.

IPSE DIXITS Galore,

Best,

logodox@sound.net

Tue Apr 09 19:59:13 1996
Subject: 0630 Hermetic Doctrine

Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 22:50:52 -0400
From: photopro

My Meditation on Hermetic doctrine

"INFINITE AND INCOMPREHENSIBLE ONE."
"SPIRIT." "INFINITE LIVING MIND."

THINK NOW, of an out of the ordinary defination of ENERGY AND FORCE,
not as the source of the ALMIGHTY MIND, but INTELLIGENCE OF THE
ABSOLUTE, THE ULTIMATE ONE.

There is only ONE. That ONE is ALL AND EVERYTHING. That ONE is
NO-"THING". That ONE is Immutable, Immortal, Eternal, Infinite. That
ONE is all so-called time/place/space, all-Power, all Presence, all
knowing That ONE is the TrueReality. Therefore does that ONE contain
and is "All the Power (Force) thatever was, will be, and is here now.
That is, within and as, that ONE ULTIMATE BEING!

DIVINE MIND . An INTELLIGENCE beyond our present ability to even
imagine it and the scope of it. Yet, we can only do the best we can at
any moment to be in communion with our HIGHEST SELF!

Earth/Matter is the field of lessons. Experience in matter, an
opportunity to advance in knowing who we truly are. At the highest
consciousness of transcendental man. matter does not matter!

Unity brings a state of simplicity. Return to it. Keep no personal
baggage ofmateriality, memories, husks, pulls, fears, rationalizations,
relaticns, humanitywith self-conscious distractions. Return to balance,
reconciliation, forgiveness absolute faith in THE TRUE SELF and
fulfillment of a wondrous kind will fill and reign in your heart.

IMAGE. Are we but an image, a reflection in and of THAT GREATEST MIND?
Why then do we seem so real to ourselves? Why do we have to go through
illusion? Through tests? Through the impossible to discover the "true
story"? Why were we put "out", not knowing we were really "in?" Did
that GREATEST ULTIMATE BEING have a desire for our existence? What is
our purpose? -We can only guess and many thoughtshave expressed the
possibilities. Reflection? GOD relecting on his own nature by putting
it out there in multiples? A game? To exercise THE MIND-keep it
interesting/configure the pieces of a giant picture puzzle whose
wholeness isgreater than the sum of it's parts? Company? Humanity a
separated whole withthe seeming individual "choice" of returning. This
election made able, perhaps by finding that their identity was a
"Being" IN, BUT SEEMINGLY OUT OF THE MIND OF GOD. To discover that
they/he/she/you/I/we have the potential TO RETURN BACKINTO SHARED
CONSCIOUSNESS WITH THE MIND OF GOD. THAT TRANSCENDENTAL MAN HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE ONE WITH, AT-ONE-MENT WITH AND AS THAT INFINITE LIVING MIND. SPIRIT ITSELF!!!

What is really real??? I AM.

WISA

Tue Apr 09 19:59:23 1996
Subject: 0631 The Law of Reciprocal Action

From: OISPEGGY
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 09:39:53 -0500 (EST)

From: Clark Stillman

>From my reading of the Bhagavad Gita, action performed free from the
>desire for results produces no residual results, i.e., karma. Our
>understanding of karma is somewhat less than the scope of meaning the
>Gita and Upanisads seem to indicate.

.....

>Thus a decision to do/not do something is not necessarily based on an
>intellectual understanding of karma, but rather on being in the moment,
>free from desire for a particular/special/certain result, and acting
>according to what is seen as the need in that moment, while free from
>the desires that would color the action.

That's it! That's it! That is what I mean by "the path with heart."

>Not my every day mode of action, that's for sure.

I try to make it so. Its a lot like being a child, while doing adult
things.

- Peggy -

Tue Apr 09 19:59:31 1996
Subject: 0632 The Law of Reciprocal Action

From:OISPEGGY
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 09:35:16 -0500 (EST)

Rawn:
>>Also, no one has yet given specific examples about how exactly they
>>make decisions to do, or not to do something, based on Karma.

>Aye, and there's the rub! The application of these Laws can be a tricky
>business, especially it seems, as concerns one's personal "karma". The key
>question to ask oneself when attempting to apply these Laws is: "Why?" For
>instance: To what end am I a good person in the world? Is it simply the way

So often discussions of Karma make it sound like the almighty has
a scoring system, and that bugs me.

It does, however, seem to me that whatever forces one uses during
life will attract and repulse powers, events, people, whatever, to
oneself. If that is what is called Karma, then I agree -- it exists.

But what to do about it? I have not yet seem an effective way of
dealing with Karma as though its KARMA, by making rational decisions
to attract this or avoid that in the big cosmic payback system.
Bleah. Too much inhibition. Also, the system doesn't "work" in
such a straightforward way anyhow. Sometimes good brings evil and
evil brings good or good things are done with bad intentions or bad
things are done with good intentions, or someone tries to do good
but they accidentally did evil or vice versa. Where was I? Oh
yes, the point is that trying deal with Karma as though it were
a rational system is not (IMO) effective and takes the joy out of
things.

I find it far more effective to choose the "path with heart" whatever
that may be. When I don't know which path has heart, and this happens
fairly often, then I "go with the flow" until I figure it out.

- Peggy -

Tue Apr 09 19:59:41 1996
Subject: 0633 Information about herbs; -Reply

From: Gilbert Arnold
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 10:43:22 -0400

Another very useful site is Michael Moore's:

http://www.rt66.com/hrbmoore/ManualsMM/

A careful perusal can give one hints about plant compound
thermosensitivity.

Blessings,

+Gilbert

Tue Apr 09 19:59:51 1996
Subject: 0634 20th Century Alchemy

From: calhhh
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:08:40 -0400

Hello to All !

I have just returned from a close to 3 week vacations, and
was happy to find my mailbox filled with lively interaction
of the Alchemy Forum even though a lot of it not directly
related to Alchemy itself, however good food for thought ...

During my trip to Europe I entered in contact with a Spanish
group actively working in Alchemical matters, and I must say
I was quite impressed with what I was informed about their
level of advancement on their research. They seemed to be
very serious well intended people, not looking for public
recognition, fame nor fortune. The founder of the group,
Simon H., have published several books in spanish but as
I understand it, he is not well known elsewhere. However
some of his "alchemical by-products" have even been tested
in well recognized spanish universities with surprising
results . I could give some more data about it to those that
may be interested.

Indeed Alchemy is again flourishing and I think more than
ever before ! Perhaps a sign of the times we live in ....

This brings back to mind the subject of 20th Century Alchemy
to which Tim Scott (message 0574 - 04/2/96) referred to, when he
wrote his most interesting report about the Ingaleses. I would
love to see on this forum a detailed discussion on 20th century
alchemy from the long list of well versed participants. I think
would be tremendously interesting for the beginners like myself,
to see a short description of the work undertaken by the most
prominent alchemists, including, and this would be most important
a description of how far they have gone with regards to the Great
Work.

Could someone help me clarify the following :

BESIDES EVIDENTLY FULCANELLI, WHICH 20TH CENTURY ALCHEMISTS
HAVE CLAIMED TO HAVE MADE THE STONE ????

I understand the Ingaleses claimed it but according to Tim's
report it seems this was not the case ... I have read some about
the excellent work done by Frater Albertus, Pancaldi, Barbault,
Mr. Dubuis (LPN), Volpierre, Alexander Von Bernus, Manfred Junius,
and also am aware through reading some articles, like the one
made in 1990 by Mr. Hans Nitzel, "Alchemy is Alive and Well", where
he mentions Solazaref (France), Petri Murien (France) and many
others, with different and very interesting research, but
I think this data should be updated, and it is not clear how
far each of them have gone in their respective research.

For example I read in an article dated Oct. 1995 of a magazine by
the name "CUERPO Y MENTE" (Body and Mind), that Barbault's work
is being continued by his son, but I have not seen any reports
regarding what is the current status of his research. I recall
Mr. Pat Zalewski was also looking for some information on this ...

Please, could all of you much well informed lovers of The
Royal Art, contribute to actualize and inform the forum about
the current standing of research worldwide ? ? ? ? Perhaps
Mr. Nintzel's article could be a good place to start and work
from there, perhaps someone explaining in what consists Solazaref
work, and so on .... Any tidbit of information would be useful
and then could be organized and compiled ... I know secrecy is
usually associated with Alchemy, but there is no need to give
contact information or real names, just a compilation of their
work and current status and perhaps a reference as to the country
where they work. In the future perhaps a complete database ...

YOUR HELP WILL BE VERY HELPFUL AND GREATLY APPRECIATED !!!!

Best Regards,

ORCIS
calhhh@mail.pananet.com<

Wed Apr 10 10:50:40 1996
Subject: 0635 Cinnabar, Caro's way

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 09 Apr 96 18:29:41 EDT

Dear Manfred,

you wrote: >The so-called Way of Cinnabar has been thaugt by the French
alchemist Roger Caro who lived in South France and died few years ago.<

Have you practically examined the way? As far as I am informed, the process
actually is very simple. Only the preparation of the necessary raw materials for
the work is costly. Thereby the production of the salt fire presents the most
time-consuming work. But also this is to be made...

The problem: Good friends of mine have re-enacted dozens of times the union of
the three essential alchemical principles of this work. Thereby they exactly
followed the statements of Caro. The described and also in photos captured color
changes which Caro observed really are reproducible. Only: The product was not
the philosopher's stone! One received a red powder, which however did not own
the characteristics being attributed to it.

Do you know more about it?

Best regards
Lapis

E-Mail 100667.1267@compuserve.com

Wed Apr 10 10:50:49 1996
Subject: 0636 concert(alchemical music)

From: Coulombe Patrice
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 14:33:44 -0400 (EDT)

Le concert sera enregistre et un extrait de ma piece sera depose dans ma
page web eventuellement(http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca/~coulomp/index.html)
Ma page sera accessible d'ici une semaine.

A sample of this concert will be placed on my web page (which will be
active next week).

Gilbert,si vous le desirer, il me fera un plaisir de vous poster une
version integrale.
sincerly & fraternaly

Patrice Coulombe
coulomp@ere.umontreal.ca

Wed Apr 10 10:50:59 1996
Subject: 0637 alchemical music

From: MARTHA JONES
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 18:00:01 -0600

Patrice Coulombe, you wrote:

"So, since this experience, I have tried to learn more about alchemy
and to find a convincing way to compose music from alchemical lore.
believe that alchemy is not only a philosophy but really a research
laboratory; but, most of all, alchemy is a way to transfigure oneself in one's endeavor. I am musician. I am doing music. It is my way to learn
more about me and to accomplish my indiviuation.

Alchemy is the way I choosed to mix my spirituality with my art and when I am doing
"alchemical music", I feel the repecutions in my soul. I know, it is a
kind of "profane" alchemy, but insulting the Royal Art is not my aim.
Rather, I want to know if there a place for music in alchemy. I would
like to know your position about art in alchemy."

Sincerly and fraternaly
Patrice Coulombe
coulomp@ere.umontreal.ca
(a web page about my music
is now at work)

Wed Apr 10 10:51:08 1996
Subject: 0638 Calhhh and all

Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 22:50:44 -0400
Subject: Calhhh and all

Every tangent in has great value or a degree of it.
I would like to make a statement .
No matter what else we do... like work in the lab, there is the
essense of what we are working on and it is I. I am the vessel, I am
the stone, I am in process of change and becoming. I would be and am
the touchstone and would be the elixer of life.I as Mankind and as who
I AM. Also I - AS WHO YOU ARE - WHICH IS - "I AM".
I am thus also the Hermetic vessel . The chemistry is in and working
on Me. The physical exertions have their value but the pineal gland at
the base of my brain is transmuting into the Stone of the Wise.
As a Hermetic Vessel, I claim to BE signed, sealed and
deliberated...into Freedom. Therefore when discussion goes round to
growth and transcendence through understanding through this forum, it
is not off the mark of Alchemy. It is just which aspect is being
discussed at the moment. They are corresponded.

Wed Apr 10 10:51:18 1996
Subject: 0639 20th Century Alchemy.

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 03:22:00 -0400
From: iscom

How refreshing to see the post 0634 by Calhhh calling our
attention toward the basic matter of alchemy and specially
alchemy in our own era and times. This work during the 20th
century has been made mostly with an exoteric approach,
looking for scientific validation for ancient knowledge.
However, the development of alchemical knowledge can not be
fully appreciated if the esoteric aspect of it is not taken
into consideration.

We should remember that when ancient alchemists were trying
to get the Stone, sometimes referred to as the Elixir, Sacred
Substance, or elixir, the scientific knowledge in relation
with matter and energy was not the same as in our times. For
this reason it is understandable that modern researchers try
to re-interpret old teachings and traditions undre the light
of the new knowledge. We should remember also that the ancient
alchemists considered that the Stone could be found only as a
result of divine favor and that this developed an esoteric,
mystical and occult side to the "Divine" Art and that it is
frequently in the related literature to find references toward
the alchemical practice, mixing the esoteric and exoteric sense
and meanings in a common approach and language, especially when
relating to symbols for the interpretation/explanation. They
were actually a mixture of philosopher/pre-chemists.

Actually there are serious people researching the process of
conversion toward white powders that provide a scientific basis
and knowledge for it; but they also do not discard or put aside
the philosophical considerations related. For example, anybody
familiar with the research and work done by the Hudson team can
find this clearly stated in the literature. If they succeed in
bringing this knowledge to the world, it will be as a result of
their scientific approach to the matter and everybody familiar
also with Nostradamus prophecy about the cold gold won't be
surprised. He made the prophecy that by 1999 it would be known
to science. It seems that we can get a better understanding of
the process and its results, if we can have an open mind toward
the integrated approach that combines the historical perspective
and language, with the modern knowledge related with concepts
like Einstein's-Bose condensate, quantum coherence and the new
discoveries related with superconductivity at room temperatures.

Shall we revisit the Hudson papers? They are pure 20th century.

With WPG wishes,

Charlie.

Carlos A. Bracamonte,CH E-mail: iscom@interlas.com
"Light... Life... Inside... Outside"
The LightOlife(sm) System, The Quantum Pyramid(tm) Game,
The Virtual-Hypnosuite(tm) Hall... for Infokinetics.

Wed Apr 10 11:07:39 1996
Subject: 0640 Roger Caro - 20th Century alchemists

I found the recent postings mentioning Roger Caro very interesting. Does anyone have any further information on this obscure 20th century alchemist?

Perhaps we could draw up a short biography of some of the more important 20th Century alchemists, and I could place this onto the web site. Any suggestions for people we should include on this list?

Adam McLean

Wed Apr 10 15:48:56 1996
Subject: 0641 20th century Alchemy

From: Jose B. Escada Jr.
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:24:46 +0300

Dear Forum members,

Orcis (calhhh) wrote:

>During my trip to Europe I entered in contact with a Spanish
>group actively working in Alchemical matters, and I must say
>I was quite impressed with what I was informed about their
>level of advancement on their research. They seemed to be
>very serious well intended people, not looking for public
>recognition, fame nor fortune. The founder of the group,
>Simon H., have published several books in spanish but as
>I understand it, he is not well known elsewhere. However
>some of his "alchemical by-products" have even been tested
>in well recognized spanish universities with surprising
>results . I could give some more data about it to those that
>may be interested.

Dear Orcis, could you please provide us more information about this
group and, if possible, their address in Spain?

I deeply agree with this comments about Simon H.: his work is known in
far lands, like Brazil where I live. His books are amongst the most
clear alchemical literature I had seen (and I had studied hundreds of
them), full of information you can't find in other writings and without
the symbolism commonly found even in other 20th Century authors.

His books deserve learning Spanish just to read them, as I did. The
titles I know are "Las Palomas de Diana" and "La Puerta Cerrada".
There's also a 3rd book, I'll check its title and mail to the forum. One
of them contains photographs of every step (colors) of the Work.

Sincerely,

Jose.

Wed Apr 10 15:49:04 1996
Subject: 0642 books

From: Chiman7
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 08:25:59 -0400

Greetings,

My knowledge of alchemy leans heavily towards the eastern traditions,
particularly Taoist "inner" alchemy, though I've also read Jung's books and
am familiar with the Golden Dawn teachings. All of this appears to be based
on the transmutation of psycho-physical energies, and I think it excellent
that so much information is available about this profound process.
However, I'm becoming more interested in the western tradition as
it involves something approaching laboratory work, but have not been able to
find any good books that describe the process. Anybody have any
recommendations?

Thanks,

Chiman7@aol.com

Wed Apr 10 15:49:19 1996
Subject: 0643 The Law of Reciprocal Action

From: Barry Carter
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 00:39:50 +0000

Dear Friends,

This conversation is really getting great!

> >Thus a decision to do/not do something is not necessarily based on an
> >intellectual understanding of karma, but rather on being in the moment,
> >free from desire for a particular/special/certain result, and acting
> >according to what is seen as the need in that moment, while free from
> >the desires that would color the action.
>
> That's it! That's it! That is what I mean by "the path with heart."
>
> >Not my every day mode of action, that's for sure.
>
> I try to make it so. Its a lot like being a child, while doing adult
> things.
>
> - Peggy -

The zen master said "When walking just walk, when sitting just sit,
above all don't wobble." The Gita says "grounded in being perform
action" and "action without attachment to the fruits of action".

The Buddha told a parable in a sutra:

A man traveling across a field encountered a tiger. He fled,
the tiger after him. Coming to a precipice, he caught hold of
the root of a wild vine and swung himself down over the edge.
The tiger sniffed at him from above, Trembling, the man looked
down to where, far below, another tiger was waiting to eat him.
Only the vine sustained him.

Two mice, one white and one black, little by little started to
gnaw away the vine. The man saw a lucious strawberry near him.
Grasping the vine with one hand, he plucked the strawberry with
the other. How sweet it tasted.

Almost all of the Tao Te Ching talks of the way of "being a child,
while doing adult things."

People through finding something beautiful
Think something else unbeautiful,
Through finding one man fit
Judge another unfit.
Life and death, though stemming from each other,
seem to conflict as stages of change,
Difficult and easy as phases of achievement,
Long and short as measures of contrast,
High and low as degrees of relation;
But, since the varying of tones gives music to a voice
And what is is the was of what shall be,
The sanest man
Sets up no deed,
Lays down no law,
Takes everything that happens as it comes,
As something to animate, not to appropriate,
To earn, not to own,
To accept naturally without self-importance:
If you never assume importance
You never lose it.

Existence is beyond the power of words
To define:
Terms may be used
But are none of them absolute.
In the beginning of heaven and earth there were no words,
Words came out of the womb of matter;
And whether a man dispassionately
Sees to the core of life
Or passionately
Sees the surface,
The core and the surface
Are essentially the same,
Words making them seem different
Only to express appearance.
If name be needed, wonder names them both:
From wonder into wonder
Existence opens.

Jesus asks us to cast our bread upon the water and it will return to
us ten fold and a hundred fold. He said "whoever among you becomes
like a child will know the kingdom" and "when you strip and are not
embarrassed, and you take your clothes and throw them down under your
feet like little children and trample them, then you will see the
Child of the Living One and you will not be afraid."

The tenth of the 10 Bulls by Kakuan, a twelfth century Chinese zen
master, speaks of what it is to be fully like a "child while doing
adult things":

Barefoot and naked of breast, I mingle with
the people of the world.
My clothes are ragged and dust laden, and
I am ever blissful.
I use no magic to extend my life;
now, before me, the dead trees become alive.

Inside my gate, a thousand sages do not know me. The beauty of
my garden is invisible. Why should one search for the
footprints of the patriarchs? I go to the market place with my
wine bottle and return home with my staff. I visit the wineshop
and the market, and everyone I look upon becomes enlightened.

In all of the scriptures everywhere the message is the same "be here
now"; "the way to do is to be"; "take no thought of tomorrow for
tomorrow shall take thought for the things of itself". We needn't
worry about our karma since it is unknown and unknowable. What we
do need to do is stop the chattering monkeys of the mind so that we
can perceive events without them being masked by our inner
commentary or expectations and so we can respond to events without
our response being muted by our doubts and fears. This is what is
meant by entering into the silence.

Barry Carter
Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance
Voice 541-523-3357
Fax 541-523-9438

Insanity is doing the same thing
and expecting different results.

Wed Apr 10 15:49:29 1996
Subject: 0644 The Law of Reciprocal Action

From: douwe
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 08:59:44 GMT

It may not be appropriate for me to answer on this, because I haven't
been following the former discussions on this topic.
(I have only been subscribed for one day)
But still I have some thoughts regarding karma.

>>>Also, no one has yet given specific examples about how exactly they
>>>make decisions to do, or not to do something, based on Karma.

You don't make a disission, you will be decided... It is a kind of
thing like not my will, but THY will.
To come to the point where you will be able to step so far away from
your former self, that is where alchemy comes in.
Not my will but thy will has to do with a shifting of polarity.
My will is based on greed, and egotizm, but the will of God inside of
me is based on absolute harmony and gentleness, an perfect desision.

The problem with karma is that all that you do yourself to dissolve it
will cause more karma... why???, well because you have been doing it
yourself, while you self are far from perfect.
It is a bit like a bad artist wanting to paint a great piece of art.
He may believe that he will be able to, but when it comes to it he
will have to tell that he can't.
With other words... you and I are far from perfect, so how could we
create something more perfect as ourselfes.

>>Aye, and there's the rub! The application of these Laws can be a tricky
>>business, especially it seems, as concerns one's personal "karma". The key
>>question to ask oneself when attempting to apply these Laws is: "Why?" For
>>instance: To what end am I a good person in the world? Is it simply the way
>
>So often discussions of Karma make it sound like the almighty has
>a scoring system, and that bugs me.

That is out of people their greed and egotizm, they usually try to
show how perfect they are themselfs, and well... you will have to
change the system a bit for that... these people usually don't believe
in following a higher will, which is totally beiond ourself... and
totally beiond our higher self.
(in this case the higher self is a trap where a lot of people fall
for, because it shows itself as something supernatural, so people take
it as something supernatural, while it isn't... it is just a part of
your own being, but then a bit less dence, so that it is more in
contact with other lesser dence worlds around you)
The other reazon for the 'scoring system' is because people
missunderstood some of the concepts of carma, and put it in a
everyday-life-coat.
What once was understood as.the law of action-reaction, which is the
most basic law of nature..., is now mis-seen as somekind of karmic-god
giving you a good kick when you go wrong, while it is much more
involving then that.

Just like 'an eye for an eye', has been taken as some legitimation of
hurting someone who hurts you... while it say somewhere else that you
have to turn your other cheek when someone slaps you in your face.
These two have been subject to an discussion which lasted for
centuries...which one to take, which one to believe in???
The irony is though that they both talk of one and the same thing, and
that is the law of karma.
the first one is the justice of karma, and the seccond one is the way
how you dissolve karma.

>It does, however, seem to me that whatever forces one uses during
>life will attract and repulse powers, events, people, whatever, to
>oneself. If that is what is called Karma, then I agree -- it exists.

>But what to do about it?

Change the repulsion and attraction-properties into solve et coagula.
Dissolve the old body, and the new one will coagulate in you by
itself.
On human terms it is a bit like stepping a bit away from yourself,
just taking a step back, then the Other Property will have a chance to
work in you.

There is a lot more to be said about it, because karma is one of the
most basic laws of nature... so it involves everthing around us...
from the trees growing in your garden to your multiple experiences
after death.

>I find it far more effective to choose the "path with heart" whatever
>that may be. When I don't know which path has heart, and this happens
>fairly often, then I "go with the flow" until I figure it out.

---
Because it is my first posting here, I thought that it might be apt to
tell who I am.
I am Douwe, from the Amsterdam, I am a 26 yo boy, and have been
involved with hermetic things from my early youth.
I busy myself with practical and philosophical alchemy, I have a
strong bond with aincient Rosicrucianism, and Gnostic, Platonic, and
Hermetic thought.
I kind of find myself in the western tradition, not that I devaluate
the eastern tradition, but I just don't seem to feel as close to it,
as I feel to the western one.
For the rest, I try to live full life, I mean by that that I don't try
to avoid problems, because they make me solve them and myself.
So I don't live a full life for the sake of life itself, because I
only value this life as a vehicle and a way.
I don't like occult-(hidden from sight) stuff, for the reazon that
someone shouldnt be busy with what he/she doesn't know about...
because in that case there is some thing, 'not so light by nature'
helping you a hand in 'not being so light in nature', and to me that
is no good.

Well for the rest... I believe that subtlety is the golden spark of
every masterpiece, but this doesn't make the one who is subtle the
master, but it only makes him a good instrument.
And I believe in simplicity... I rather sound stupid and being
understood, then to sound as if I know more then others, while I
don't.

Well... I could go on but I think that this must be enough, If there
are any questions then I will be happy to answer them.

For the rest I appologize for myself if I misunderstand some rules for
posting in this forum, because it is my first posting here.
If there are some rulese that do apply then I hope that someone will
correct me on my use of etiquette in this forum.

Thanks,

Douwe.

Wed Apr 10 21:39:11 1996
Subject: 0645 20th Century Alchemy

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 13:17:54 -0400
From: photopro

>From: iscom
>
>
>How refreshing to see the post 0634 by Calhhh calling our
>attention toward the basic matter of alchemy and specially
>alchemy in our own era and times. This work during the 20th
>century has been made mostly with an exoteric approach,
>looking for scientific validation for ancient knowledge.
>However, the development of alchemical knowledge can not be
>fully appreciated if the esoteric aspect of it is not taken
>into consideration.
>
>We should remember that when ancient alchemists were trying
>to get the Stone, sometimes referred to as the Elixir, Sacred
>Substance, or elixir, the scientific knowledge in relation
>with matter and energy was not the same as in our times. For
>this reason it is understandable that modern researchers try
>to re-interpret old teachings and traditions undre the light
>of the new knowledge. We should remember also that the ancient
>alchemists considered that the Stone could be found only as a
>result of divine favor and that this developed an esoteric,
>mystical and occult side to the "Divine" Art and that it is
>frequently in the related literature to find references toward
>the alchemical practice, mixing the esoteric and exoteric sense
>and meanings in a common approach and language, especially when
>relating to symbols for the interpretation/explanation. They
>were actually a mixture of philosopher/pre-chemists.

Re: that portion that states above "the Stone could be found only as a
result of divine favor..." This is true of all the creative genius
tangents into "Divine Art". And in reference to my two other posted
E-mails today, may I state that I did not mention my agreement in this
belief. For Man might elect and strive but without "BLESSINGS/GRACE"
there will be hinderance in the processing of Desire / Quest toward
Wisdom/Stone/Transmutation.

Wisa / PhotoProse

Wed Apr 10 21:39:21 1996
Subject: 0646 Alchemy - Golden Dawn Statement

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 13:39:11 -0400
From: photopro

Browsing through the web I came once again upon this statement from the
Golden Dawn web site that states :

The study of Alchemy is Encouraged in the Golden Dawn.

Virtually in every grade the basics of
Alchemy are presented and taught to the student
of our order. This prepares the student
to embark on serious Alchemical workings in
higher grades. In fact, the student of
our Order who works through the grade structure
is placing his/her self into the
Alchemical furnace and is then far more prepared to
apply him/her self to the Great Work in the higher grades.

The Order has a very large library of Alchemical texts available to the
higher grade members. In addition to the obscure text that
are not readily available to most people who pursue the study of
alchemy; the Order has virtually all of the classical texts. Most
Adepts of the Order spend a great deal of time with the texts. Some
because they choose to do work with the alembic, flask and
furnace, others because they see the wisdom in the formula for personal
spiritual transformation.

There is a popular saying in our order "One can not create beyond
oneself". If we are to create the kind of Alchemical stone
,elixirs, medicaments etc. then we must become priceless, less we
practice chemistry instead of Alchemy.

In all things seek the true stone, the Stone of the Wise.

Notice this Golden Dawn excerpt:

"> is placing his/her self into the Alchemical furnace and is then far more
>prepared to
>apply him/her self to the Great Work in the higher grades."

Placing his/her self into the Alchemical furnace - The fire that does
not burn..(.read some mythical references to Isis and her adventures to
find her dead husband). This is once again referring to Alchemical
Process working on the body of Man.

Wisa - PhotoProse

Wed Apr 10 21:39:30 1996
Subject: 0647 Calhhh and all

From:Jose B. Escada Jr.
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 13:13:01 +0300

Subj: RE: 0638 Calhhh and all

Someone wrote the message 0638 to the forum. Unfortunately, it's not
signed. But i also want to make a statment about that message:

Dear anonymous: you may think you are in the right way and we'll be
happy with you. But you have not the right to deny other's believes
or the Way others have choose to go nor to consider other toughs as
wrong just because they don't agree with yours.

You may have your own philosophy and believes. In particular, you may
follow the "I AM" dogmas and assertions, if you find them to suit
your life. But try not to be blind and deaf to other ways of thinking
and reasoning, you may loose something.

Even in philosophical (or esoteric) studies, no one must be stucked
to some dogmas and assertions and push hard to make others have the
same believe.

This alchemy forum is supposedely open to all believes, providing
they're related to alchemy. It's not a forum solely dedicated to the
"I AM" sect as you probably had already discovered reading the e-mails
and the Web pages.

If you have a clear definition of Alchemy that no one else could
refute, let us know. But please provide your own definition, not
what others have written about. While this, let us that are not
initiated in the "I AM" philosophy to mantain our believes and
discuss, in this forum, other Alchemy aspects that you don't agree to.

As i said, i believe this is an open forum to *any* alchemy discussions
and interpretations. Yours is just one of them. If you don't agree with
some posts, please don't try to convince others that your way is the
Only Way.

You also wrote: "The chemistry is in and is working on Me. The physical
exertions have their value but the pineal gland at the base of my brain
is transmuting into the Stone." Not considering where the pineal gland
is, please remember that your pineal gland is a physical, not spiritual,
entity of your physical body and any process on it is a physical
process even if conducted through spiritual means. This gland may have a
spiritual purpose, as several other sects already have described - i can
suggest you to read some Rosacrucian texts about it - but its physical and
you cannot deny it.

Sincerely,

Jose.

Wed Apr 10 21:39:39 1996
Subject: 0648 Callh and All

From: photopro
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 13:06:04 -0400

> As a Hermetic Vessel, I claim to BE signed, sealed and
>deliberated...into Freedom. Therefore when discussion goes round to
>growth and transcendence through understanding through this forum, it
>is not off the mark of Alchemy. It is just which aspect is being
>discussed at the moment. They are corresponded.

About this my e-mail export...
DE LIBERATED & DE LIVERED OVER can both be used here....for we are
going into FREEDOM. Wisa/Photoprose.

A question puzzle: WHAT IS UNWANTED FREEDOM???
Clue: FREEDOM AND POWER THAT CAN'T BE USED WITHOUT SACRIFICING THAT WHICH ONE, AS AN ADEPT EXEMPT, HAS BECOME.

Wed Apr 10 22:21:11 1996
Subject: 0649 20th Century Alchemy

From: Buzz Lange
Date: 10 Apr 96 11:27:00

Hi Adam,

AF>Shall we revisit the Hudson papers? They are pure 20th century.

Sending a message to WhiteGold-info@zz.com will return a FAQ and
a current file index. The library is at your disgression.

Cheers,
Buzz.

Fri Apr 12 21:04:56 1996
Subject: 0650 Roger Caro - 20th Century alchemists

From:Pat Zalewski
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 07:55 NZST

>Archibald Cochren was also supposed to have made the philosophers stone.
People who visited him saw it growing, but alas he also did not last long.
We have two alchemists who have claimed to have made the stone, and both of
them died under normal circumstances. There was no prolonging of life here.
I do not think both of them were liars. This seems to pose more questions
than answers.

Pat zalewski